Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Nov 30, 2007 23:47:51 GMT -5
I posted the following in the Iroh thread pre-DOBS… anyways, to summarize some of my previous theories... Iroh will break himself out, he doenst need anyone else for that... which begs the question, why hasnt he done it yet? the only conclusion, in my mind, is he is waiting for the eclipse. he has big plans for the future against Ozi, that place himself in a central role. he is getting buff for a reason, not just to pass time. he might try to fight Ozi during the eclipse while Ozi cant bend, but i think Iroh could take anyone in an 1v1 bending battle Iroh might be getting buff to look like a general, to inspire people to a certain cause. If Iroh ends DOBS with zuko, I think he will take zuko to try to find Ursa. If Iroh ends DOBS with the gAang, i think he will end up being Aangs firebending teacher. If Iroh ends DOBS with nobody knowing where he is, i think he will stir up civil war within the FN recruiting FN troops against his brother under legitimate legal and moral reasons... If Iroh ends DOBS still wasting away in prison, i will eat my boots. So ya… my theory is that Iroh is going to contact the white Lotus and use their resources to start a uprising against the FN… which may erupt into a full on civil war. Iroh will spend the 3ed quarter of the season reestablishing his fame and status as legendary general and leader with his wit, impressive and powerful looking bod, and mini-victories in the battlefield against Ozi. The FN will flock to Iroh when they begin to see he offers an alternative to Ozi. Once Iroh has established a full army, during his mission, he will contact the gaang through the white lotus, and organize a second invasion… this time with the help of the FN citizens and lower class solders… we have already seen the willingness of some of the FN guards to help Iroh. the last invasion will consist of all four nations raising against Ozi... it will be Iroh's role to bring the FN against the tyrant. He also might send Zuko a note telling him where Ursa is. At the end of the season, Iroh may take the throne with zuko as the crowned prince and heir... Or Iroh could just offer Zuko the crown, if the situation in the FN is stable and the people trusting enough of zuko. It could go either way. So… what do ya think? Is the general in Iroh coming out of retirement? He didn’t start working out or wait for the DOBS to break out for nothing. there has also been much foreshadowing that Iroh is going to do something big and different. Before you respond, please consider how everybody with a military background treateated Iroh's past with respect, and Ming was even loyal to him in what seemed like his darkest hour. Consider why Iroh was working out from M&B's perspective. what could it forshadow? Consider the "one man army" quote. What could possibly stop Iroh from joining up with zuko after the break-out? EDIT: this thread is NOT to discuss who will become FireLord. and it is NOT to discuss zuko's post DOBS role... there are already threads for that. This is about Iroh's post DOBS story and weather or not he will unite some of the FN against Ozi.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Dec 1, 2007 0:03:32 GMT -5
I honestly think that if anyone needs to take the initiative and organize a counter-attack, it has to be Aang. He's been following Sokka's lead for too long.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 1, 2007 0:08:48 GMT -5
and who said aang cant? aang is going to bring the northern water tribe, remaining earth benders, Bumi, and others into the mix... and he has to learn firebending from zuko, and develop his relationship with katara while still opening the 7th chakra... and you want him to lead a FN army as well? common now, give the little guy a break, he cant do it all... and nobody is better to bring the FN people away from Ozi then Iroh.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Dec 1, 2007 0:38:07 GMT -5
Relax. If Iroh can organize a resistance in the Fire Nation that would be a great contribution from him (though I'm sort of thinking he's put his military days behind him). What's no bueno is for Iroh to show up with a fully formulated plan to win the day. Aang really needs to come up with the final strategy, imo.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 1, 2007 1:54:37 GMT -5
why would you think Iroh has put his fighting days behind him after seeing Iroh Balboa? seriously, Iroh's actions in S3 show quite the opposite, hes taking up his military ways again.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Dec 1, 2007 3:48:24 GMT -5
Fighting a few guards is not the same thing as leading an army, my friend. Why did Iroh retire? His son died, as well as countless other soldiers. All of them were his responsibility. When you're fighting an oppnent one-on-one, you only need to be responsible for yourself.
When you're in charge of an army, you're responsible for thousands of lives. You lead them to death as often as victory.
Iroh apparently underwent such a traumatic change after he quit the milatary. Which is why I'm doubtful that he'll be eager to lead an army once more.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 1, 2007 4:25:42 GMT -5
ya, Iroh changed after the loss of his son... but he also changed in prison.... all that "self-reflection" didnt lead Iroh to decide to get buff just so he could escape, and run away to some peaceful life in a tea-shop...
and besides he could have escaped just fine without buffing up...
really, there is no way your gonna convince me that after all Iroh did... all that buffing up... after showing his connection to the white lotus society and its importance... after showing what a great bender he is and what a great general he was... after going out of the way to show that FN miliatary respected him... that Iroh is just going to play a minimal role whose olny porpse is to evade capture and provide words of advice... they have developed Iroh's story for a reason, and you have to take it all into account.
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Post by Valkyrie on Dec 1, 2007 4:34:38 GMT -5
...I'm not sure if we can expect Iroh to jump in as a main character. He will most definitely be working in the background on something, but he isn't going to start an army. He is STILL the peace-loving, tea-drinking Uncle Iroh, and he may assist in helping to build an army, or do the whole White Lotus thingay, but he will not step back into the General position, and if he does, then III will eat my boot.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 1, 2007 4:43:21 GMT -5
but thats just the thing... comming out of retirement will allow Iroh to take a secondary position... if he followed the gaang as aang's firebending teacher, he would dominate much screen time... as the dragon of the west, we he wont dominate the scteen, he willremain fairly mysterious to the gaang and viewers... yes still extremely important with a developing plot.
again, youve got to consider everything they have told us about Iroh. 1) he feels a need for redemption 2) he will not be traveling with zuko and the gaang 3) he has the respect of the FN population 4) he got Buff for a reason....
all of these things logically lead to Iroh coming out of retirement. so get ready to eat your boots.
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Post by Elisabeth Blanctorche on Dec 1, 2007 4:47:18 GMT -5
Your posts are kinda hard to read, Zenjamin. What exactly are you trying to say?
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Dec 1, 2007 16:15:52 GMT -5
Yes, Zen, if you could please try to use capitalized letters...make it easier on us.
Anyway...this is why I have doubts that Iroh would lead an army. Because it conflicts with the nature of who he's become. Iroh as the reformed, peaceful man who put war behind him is a great and noble character. I just don't really want to see him forget Lu Ten like *that*.
I don't see why we, any of us, would want the kind, tea-loving uncle we know to die in favor of this war-mongering, fearsome general.
I think that his involvement will probably have to do with organizing the White Lotus Society into doing whatever they do. If he's faced with the possibility to lead an army again, I would at least expect to see him mulling it over in conflict.
What does Iroh getting buff have to do with becoming a general? General's don't fight. At all. A general who engages in the combat is a moronic general.
I think it's pretty clear why Iroh trained his muscles. He knew about the eclipse. And, he apparently broke out while it was still in effect. He needed to be physically strong to beat up all the guards when there's no firebending.
As for him wanting to redeem himself. All his regrets are stemmed around Zuko. That's been evident for some time. I won't believe that he's given up full hope on his nephew, especially after their talk in The Avatar and the Fire Lord.
What doesn't make sense is Iroh basing his redemption on more warfare. Let's look at WHAT Iroh would regret...his son's death...which he must see as his own fault as the leader of that invasion. Why would the man seek to cleanse himself by leading another army?? Iroh already redeemed himself on that part....by retireing and leading a life of peace.
I don't want to see Iroh change like that. I don't think any of us do. A kindly Iroh who breaks out in bouts of awesome is great...an all-powerful general? It's tragic. I'd miss the real Iroh too much.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 1, 2007 17:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by Valkyrie on Dec 1, 2007 17:14:18 GMT -5
I've noticed that we agree on almost everything yiceman, good job! : )
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SpiritBender
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Post by SpiritBender on Dec 1, 2007 18:11:32 GMT -5
Yet at the same time, I see Iroh as the kind of man who would do what needs to be done. Yes, he may have changed and become a wise, peaceful man. Yet being at peace is not the same as being a pacifist. It does not mean that he would not fight if it is necessary to restore balance. Iroh is all about living in balance, and we've seen him fight when it was necessary. If raising an army and defeating Ozai's forces would help restore the overall balance of things, Iroh would definitely do it! It's not about warmongering -- it's about making things right. The way the story is going now, I strongly believe that Iroh doing something like going to the White Lotus and raising a world-wide resistance force will be highly necessary. Seeing the timing of everything that's happened thus far, I have a strong feeling that Aang will not defeat the Fire Nation (using that label collectively for Ozai/Azula/Fire Nation loyalist forces) before the comet comes. Roku said that when the comet comes, not even a fully realized Avatar will be powerful enough to stop them, and Aang isn't going to be even close to being a fully realized Avatar by the end of this season, Avatar State or no. He's going to need the entire world fighting beside him, and it makes perfect sense for Iroh to be leading a Fire Nation resistance force. I can't wait to actually see the full extent of what Iroh is capable of!!!!
-- SpiritBender
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
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Post by Atmos on Dec 1, 2007 18:24:29 GMT -5
Yet at the same time, I see Iroh as the kind of man who would do what needs to be done. Yes, he may have changed and become a wise, peaceful man. Yet being at peace is not the same as being a pacifist. It does not mean that he would not fight if it is necessary to restore balance. Iroh is all about living in balance, and we've seen him fight when it was necessary. If raising an army and defeating Ozai's forces would help restore the overall balance of things, Iroh would definitely do it! It's not about warmongering -- it's about making things right. The way the story is going now, I strongly believe that Iroh doing something like going to the White Lotus and raising a world-wide resistance force will be highly necessary. Seeing the timing of everything that's happened thus far, I have a strong feeling that Aang will not defeat the Fire Nation (using that label collectively for Ozai/Azula/Fire Nation loyalist forces) before the comet comes. Roku said that when the comet comes, not even a fully realized Avatar will be powerful enough to stop them, and Aang isn't going to be even close to being a fully realized Avatar by the end of this season, Avatar State or no. He's going to need the entire world fighting beside him, and it makes perfect sense for Iroh to be leading a Fire Nation resistance force. I can't wait to actually see the full extent of what Iroh is capable of!!!! -- SpiritBender You know I didn't think about Aang not reaching Ozai before the comet. That would be an interesting scenario. But back on Iroh, I'm can't imagine exactly what he'd do, but knowing that he knows the Avatar's destiny, I think he do what ever it takes to aid Aang in reaching the Fire Lord to say the least. I'm still itching to find out when, how, and why Iroh had traveled to the spirit world.
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