yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 1, 2007 16:23:37 GMT -5
Who here thinks Azula is going to be punished for lying to ger dady? Yes, I think her, Ty Lee and Mai are going to join Zuko. But Zuko's going to join the gAang. And yeah I was shocked at your statement about Azula. Calling her pathetic? WHAT is it you like about her again? Because she was shining brightly as everything we know and love about Azula in DOBS. She was composed, manipulative, evil, scary, intelligent, in-command and kicked butt even without firebending. That IS Azula. It's completely consistent with how she's behaved in the past, so what's different that makes her "pathetic?"
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Horyo on Dec 1, 2007 19:07:46 GMT -5
I think Ozai's in no mood to question Azula, the one who "saved" him from the Avatar.
I also think that even if he does ask her, she'd respond with something like, "Why would I lie? He was the one who betrayed our entire nation; it wouldn't surprise me. He did fail in killing the Avatar, after all, and has no reason to stay, would he, father?"
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Dec 1, 2007 23:50:47 GMT -5
I still say that, she could easily set up her own kingdom in the FN colonies with both fire and earth benders at her finger tips.
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Post by sunshine60 on Dec 2, 2007 0:08:01 GMT -5
Sunshine,Azula is my favorite character, so I'm going to support her. However, I'm not blind. Azula does not have the character depth needed to fill such a large role in the story. Plus, There's Ozai, who, by the way, already has started to put his stamp on the series. Ozai, unlike Azula, is actually designed to play this type of role in the story. He progresses the plot and the characters far better than Azula ever could. When Ozai is present, you can feel his presence. You Know that something big in the story is about to happen. Furthermore, Ozai plays a big part in both Aang and Zuko's story. Ozai is needed to bring conclusion to the story, unlike Azula. It's not that you don't believe that she's deep, I guess that's objective, but rather you believe that Azula to have little impact on the story. Now that, is an ignorant statement that I'd care to counter since events in S2 and most of the of S3 are a result of Azula's actions. If that's not contribution to storyline progression I don't know what is. I'd also say that Ozai is in fact the more superficial of the two considering for the majority of the series he was a shadowy figure with no personality (except "bad") that was a result of character and not anecdote (meaning most of his character is actually attributed to other characters). And even after his grand appearance, he was little more than animation up until DoBS, at which point he merely showed to be Azula's puppet ala the Earth King and genetic donator. But of course, I still don't care for debate because neither will be converted or assuaged. Of course that still didn't compel me from not speaking my mind. But I still don't debate of course.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Dec 3, 2007 0:14:27 GMT -5
But who's to say she had anything in store for him? I know you may laugh when you read this, but what's to say she didn't lie to Zuko and covered for him, out of...kindness? Out of familialty? She could've thought, he deserved a chance. I know it's slim, but the fact that she never turned him in, makes me curious. yice answered the question in much the same way I would've -- though "the bedroom scene" was actually in The Awakening, not The Headband. It's hard to imagine she'd do anything out of pure, sacrificial kindness. It's possible she didn't have the chance to turn him in -- he took the initiative and confessed. Unless she makes a point to say something along the lines of, "Darn it, why did he go and run off?! I was just about to frame him for Father's death!"... or whatever her original intentions were... we'll probably never know. It would satisfy the fanbase's curiosity, but I'm not sure how much importance we can assign it within the spectrum of the current storyline. Hehee good catch. Then maybe she will overthrow Ozai. If he does severely punish her for lying, despite everything else she's done for him, I may just be on her side. Oh and no I don't think you wanting Azula to be Fire Lord is making you look for extra clues. ^_^ She might. That's the point I was trying to drive home. I don't recall ever giving her a measure of success; just some scenarios, and what she would do once she was there. Should she try to usurp Ozai, her actual success or failure leaves my speculatory hands and enters the realm of canon. I'm happy to hear that last comment of yours, by the way! I know we don't always agree, but you're polite about it, and it really is appreciated. This has been my theory for a while and I think it still holds water. (Sorry if any of this has been said already, I don't really have time to read through everything, I just need to say this before I forget lol) Anyway... I don't think that Azula really expected Zuko to turn on the family and when she and Ozai run into each other he's going to give her hell. Yell at her for lying about Zuko killing the Avatar, letting the Avatar live, ect...Then Ozai will tell her of Zuko's betrayal and she'll take advantage. Kill her father and blame it on her brother. He has betrayed the fire nation, and it will be easy for her to prove that Iroh breaking out, which Azula could say that Zuko planned, and his alliance with the Avatar which he probably mentioned in his letter to Mai (I'm thinking Azula will be getting to the letter Zuko left for Mai before Mai gets a chance to see it). When you put it that way, I guess there is still a chance. EEEE EEEEEE Azula lied to Ozai.....wonder how he will react? Ozai was pretty furious when the truth came to light. He took out his anger on Zuko, but that's only to be expected, unfortunately. I do think he'll have a serious talk with Azula. An actual reprimand? I'm leaning toward "yes". Theoretically, he could've died that day, caught unawares by the Avatar and his friends. It didn't happen, but it just as easily could've, had Azula's diversion failed. Ozai doesn't appear to let things like that slide, judging by his misdirected fury. What if he strips Azula of her honor? Think about it... the perfect chance to see another Agni Kai! Aren't we due for one?
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Post by Elisabeth Blanctorche on Dec 3, 2007 0:29:54 GMT -5
Geez, Zoisaito, your'e new avatar is freakin sweet! It fits you like a glove! I want one, too!
Anyways, about the bedroom thingy: There's no way that the creators are going to leave that open, especially since it was also seen in "The Beach". It has to have some type of influence on the show, otherwise it was all a waste. I'm thinking it has more to do with Azula than it does with Zuko...
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Post by Valkyrie on Dec 3, 2007 16:03:10 GMT -5
^No, killing Ozai I can't see. Well, if it was put that way. I see her killing him in a more underhanded way considering from DOBS Ozai shoots lightning WAY FASTER then she ever did. If it came to that she'd be dead in seconds unless she somehow learned the redirection technique or her agility saves her. I think you're really underestimating her. They don't call her a child prodigy for kicks and giggles.
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Post by thelastavatar on Dec 3, 2007 19:54:35 GMT -5
Child prodigy or not, I still think Ozai far outranks her in skill and experience. Ozai is in the league as Iroh (who I think is definitely better than his psychopathic brother), and we all saw how Iroh took down Azula in a head-on one-on-one battle. The only way Azula beat him was because he was concerned about Toph for a split second, giving her the opening she needed.
If Azula were to kill Ozai, it would be in a similar fashion as what Ursa supposedly did to Azulon: sneaky, and in the dark of night. She thrives off keeping everyone off-balance in order to get what she wants. If she doesn't use some dirty tactic, then Azula must be hitting the cactus juice or something.
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Dec 4, 2007 6:08:31 GMT -5
^No, killing Ozai I can't see. Well, if it was put that way. I see her killing him in a more underhanded way considering from DOBS Ozai shoots lightning WAY FASTER then she ever did. If it came to that she'd be dead in seconds unless she somehow learned the redirection technique or her agility saves her. I think you're really underestimating her. They don't call her a child prodigy for kicks and giggles. ^That's exactly what I meant. Thank you thelastavatar took the word right outta me. *karmas* To reiterate, Azula may be a prodigy but that lightning Ozai was shooting took what.... 5 seconds to Azula's 30 seconds? She may be younger and hence faster in the agility department but Ozai's got some wicked fast bending and I don't think Azula learned how to make lightning by herself, someone must've taught her. Azula's sneaky, unpredictable most of the time and one helluva liar that even Toph can't detect a hint of emotion when she does. Personally, if she doesn't find out way before her most likely coming up meeting with Ozai that Zuko let the cat outta the bag so to speak she won't be able to be one step ahead of Ozai. She's also the favorite so I don't think she'll be pleased to know that her own father is mad at her for something cause it seems like he was never so mad at anything she did that the first person in the vicinity (in this case Zuko) was shot with lightning fury.
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Post by Prototime on Dec 9, 2007 2:39:53 GMT -5
I think Ozai's in no mood to question Azula, the one who "saved" him from the Avatar. I also think that even if he does ask her, she'd respond with something like, "Why would I lie? He was the one who betrayed our entire nation; it wouldn't surprise me. He did fail in killing the Avatar, after all, and has no reason to stay, would he, father?" I agree. This whole notion of Azula getting punished by her father for lying could be completely off-base. Think about it... who is Ozai going to trust: his son, who he has seen as a miserable failure and disgrace in the past and now knows is a full-blown traitor who wants to help the Avatar destroy him, or his prodigy daughter who has faithfully supported him throughout his entire life, has followed his orders, and who presented him with not only his treasonous brother, but the gift of control over the entire Earth Kingdom? Yeah. For some reason, I think Ozai will be a *bit* more inclined to believe Azula's tale over Zuko's.
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Dec 9, 2007 7:11:56 GMT -5
^That's the thing though. She has been faithful all this time and she's OZAI'S PRODIGY. Ozai would not have foreseen a betrayal from her. Finding out that it is possible that Azula will betray him seemed like a really big emotional blow. If he's as smart a villain as everyone thinks he is then he'll keep that in mind.
I suspect he'll put up a show, hence AZULA will think that he believes her and in her mind she will think that SHE has nothing to worry about. When in fact Ozai might've sent people to keep tabs on whatever she is doing.
In my mind he won't be willing to believe the notion he's gotten from Zuko's speech which is that she is capable of betraying him. So, he'll be smug that she will pass this hidden test of her loyalty. When at some point he finds out that she was indeed trying to pull the strings it'll come as a shock.
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avatar:tla-lover
Meng
candybender ;) Avatar also made by Princess Yue!
Posts: 250
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Post by avatar:tla-lover on Dec 9, 2007 8:43:11 GMT -5
My goodness, GOZ! These theories of yours are just fantastic. It seems like you have tried to see things from Azula's POV plus looking at her circumstances and advantages/disadvantages! *karmaz* I haven't been online for a while, but I really like to debate again! XD The utilization of the Dai Li. I always thought that Azula would at least make use of the Dai Li again sometime and the episodes confirmed it. However, I also wonder why Azula needed the Dai Li against the Gaang in DoBS. Yes, of course otherwise she was stuck in the Earth Toph earthbended her in. But we've seen Azula's agility and she was so fast! She could have used her agility. The only thing the Dai Li did was helping her only a little bit. Now I know Azula isn't Iroh or whatsoever; but I think she could have handled it just perfectly. Maybe the creators wanted to show us some kick-Equus asinus moves again? Maybe the creators wanted to have an Aang v.s. Azula fight for a while. Or maybe, just like GOZ stated, the Dai Li was there to overthrow Ozai. Maybe not at that time, but certainly later on! (imo) So yeah, I like this theory a lot. The Dai Li haven't seen a thing of Ozai's bending; therfore they are only loyal to Azula. (comment: nice, nice theory!) Declaring an Agni Kai. Altough I don't like this theory as much as the others. It's always possible (everything is in the Avatarworld; the creators have shown us evertime again). However, I don't think Azula will get punished for lying to Ozai. If she wasn't there; Ozai wouldn't know about the invasion and so on. Zuko has spoken out during a meeting a few years ago. Yet, when he 'killed' the Avatar, he was welcomed back home! Azula failed with the Drill, yet she invaded Ba Sing Se and conquered the Earth Kingdom and she didn't get punished from what we've seen. Azula has lied to her father about the Avatar's life, yet she protected her father (and herself) by telling him about the Eclipse! Therefore, I don't think Azula is going to get punished. Though I do think Ozai may keep an eye on her. (I agree with Prototime too) Killing him in some underhanded fashion. Indeed, about anything is possible. But GOZ, you stated 'If the motivation is there -- an "unfair" punishment, for example -- it can happen' The motivation for killing Ozai is having ultimate power and the divine right to rule. So I don't think any other motivations are needed. Of course she could let Ozai rot in a cell if she plans to take over the throne (which is what some of us believe), but Iroh escaped out of the cell and pwnd a few guards! I don't believe Ozai is stronger than Iroh (don't ask me why), but I do think Ozai is near a level of Iroh and I think Ozai would be capable of doing the same as his brother. Azulon was killed because Ozai wanted to kill Zuko. Ursa and Ozai didn't put him in jail; that would have brought up curiosity and too much attention. If Ozai is going to be overthrown; he must be killed. Or at least; the whole Fire Nation should agree with Azula. (which could be possible during an Agni-Kai, but I don't believe she is going to get punished). So, what I was trying to say was that the only motive for Azula to kill Ozai is to get the throne. She doesn't need to get punished before; it all comes to one point----> The throne being Azula's. Also, Victim ~*of *~Circumstances, it's true that Ozai bends far more faster than Azula does. But we know Azula very well now, she is always a step ahead! She knows what her father is capable of. I don't think she will attack him with bending. (apart from the Dai Li ofcourse, they could pull the move Toph did with Azula) I think Azula is going to use non-bending, she will fight with Mai's/Ty Lee's style, imo. That will be in the disadvantage of Ozai, because as we've seen during DoBS, Ozai had to listen to Zuko because Zuko knew how to fight with his swords. Ozai needed those soldiers (whom he odered to leave when Zuko wanted to talk) because he only knows how to bend! Therefore, Azula might plan for the Dai Li to attack Ozai on his throne. Then, suddenly, she comes in and sees what the Dai Li is doing. Azula will act as if she didn't know of this coup to overthrow her father. She will fight with the Dai Li (which is all planned) and then suddenly when she feels/sees her father trusting her, she kills him. Which is possible with Mai's knife. There, the end of the Fire Lord. And who do we blame? Zuko! (only if this happens shortly after the DoBS) Otherwise Azula could always blame it on her Dai Li agents. ;D Remember, Azula does everything for her own purpose/power! This is just an idea; I think it will go very different, but this is just 'what might happen'. Forging a temporary alliance with the gAang, defeating Ozai with their help, and turning on them. This could be a possibilty and I like it a lot. Though, like you stated, the acceptance Azula by the Gaang will probably work against this theory. Not to forget, Zuko is with them. His own sister has lied to him so many times. I don't think Zuko will be believing her this time. It could all be a trap. Of course they don't know if she is lying or not; but I think they will be careful. So this could work; but I can't imagine it, really. So yeah, I prefer your first and third theory a lot. Although I think Azula doesn't need other motives, I'd say this is probably going to happen. I like your other theories too, I just don't see them happening because of the reasons I just mentioned. However, I still like your input, and I must say that I admire you for these great theories! Also, the magazine-thing, good find! It's probably canon, (like most of the merchandise--> Spirit Game, Books, etc.) and this might foreshadow something big is going to happen ;D And granmaster, I'm going to ignore your statement about Azula. Oh and I also like the Perfect Cell=Azula poster! XD Very funny!
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Dec 9, 2007 12:12:45 GMT -5
I'm still hoping she'll establish her own kingdom based in the FN colonies in the EK. That way she can use her Dai Lee agents to get other earthbenders on her side and have a place for troops loyal to her/her father to gather if/when Ozai get's over thrown.
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Post by Elisabeth Blanctorche on Dec 10, 2007 7:36:11 GMT -5
Just ignore it, then. Don't wave it in my f*ckin face like that.
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lilabby
Katara
I LOVE WINTER!!!!
Posts: 75
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Post by lilabby on Dec 10, 2007 12:38:19 GMT -5
WOW!! These theorys are cool! I think Azula never was trying or planning to overthrow her father, she seems pretty loyal to him. I do wonder what she'll do if he yells at her and tries to punish her for lying to him about the avatar .......... she doesnt seem like the type who'll just sit there and take it.... maybe she'll get so angry that she might turn on him, ... how? i donk know but i think she will turn on him if he banishes her or something like the sort.
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