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Post by balletonice93 on Jul 22, 2008 6:58:38 GMT -5
i think the only reason why Azula doesnt like Uncle is cause he did favor Zuko. But i think that Uncle was only that way cause he saw that something was seriously wrong with her. o.O but I like Azula. she is a great, i just dont like how they made her look like an animal at the end of the movie, i felt so bad, i mean i know we all seen it coming with her going nuts and all, but still...........
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Post by azula1 on Jul 22, 2008 10:40:17 GMT -5
I'm trying to say that Iroh doesn't like Azula because of his larger issues with Ozai. Nobody wants to discuss the other name at the title of this thread: Ozai. Every time he sees Azula, all he sees is Ozai. And he and Ozai have a mutual dislike of each other. It's truly hard to think of any scenes in the entire series where Ozai and Iroh talk directly. Because there aren't any. I would've loved to see Ozai visit Iroh in jail. All we can infer from their dialog is that Ozai thinks Iroh is "a tea drinking failure" and Iroh has never said anything positive about Ozai. I think another reason Iroh continues to pit Zuko & Azula is that he sees no value in sibling relationships. He has a bad one with Ozai. He never got to witness one first hand with Lu Ten (being an only child and all). This is mostly done subconsciouslly. Iroh didn't even spend all that much time with Azula and Zuko when they were younger (what with the whole Bai Sing Sai invasion going on). He sent her a doll (which shows he didn't know that she's a tomboy) and probably played with her as a toddler on an Ember Island vacation. At the "Zuko Alone" point he probably knows both kids equally. Both laugh at Iroh's letter and apparently he spent sometime with the Angels after he came back- Ty Lee mentions hearing his funny stories. Azula not liking him might stem from the things Ozai says about him and not anything Iroh did himself. Ozai's bad influences on them go both ways. Afterall, why should she like him if her precious daddy doesn't? It's just that Lu Ten's death causes him to fixate more on Zuko to the exclusion of anybody else. On a broader issue, where is it that an uncle has a duty to act as a better parent to his nephew or niece than the child's actual parents? After Lu Ten died, we know that Iroh thought of Zuko as his son. That was just his way of grieving. He didnt have any obligation to take better care of Zuko than his father did. He certainly didnt have to follow the banished prince out into the wilderness. The fact that he went beyond the call of duty for Zuko is no argument that he owed a greater or equal duty to Azula. When they first met Azula in the Avatar State, Iroh was kind and polite to Azula but was rudely told not to interrupt. Yeah, he kinda does owe Zuko. Zuko wanted to go to the meeting, the guards wouldn't let him in. Iroh was skeptical about him going, but let him in and told him not to speak. Of course Zuko did speak (rightly or wrongly). He thought he was going to get away with Agni Kai-ing an old man, but ended up having to fight his dad cause thats who he insulted. Bottom line- if Iroh hadn't let Zuko into the meeting, Zuko's life would've been very different. Everybody who defends Azula completely glosses over this, and it blows my mind. She wanted to commit genocide on a MASSIVE scale with no remorse or hesitation. You know who else tried to do that? Adolph Hitler. Azula fits the same personality profile of serial killers and mass murderers like Hitler and Charles Manion. Azula utterly lacked regard for life or the capacity to empathize with others, and you think that she wasn't missing essential elements of her humanity??? Get a grip!
Nobody else at the council meeting questions the entire let's burn the EK off the face of the planet plan, it seems like the ENTIRE FN save Zuko is on the crazy side. Afterall, everyone knows they killed off the Airbenders and no one's crying a river over that. To the FN it's just another day at the office. What I don't understand is why does everyone assume that Azula is some sort of crazed serial killer? I think Azula's critics project what they want to believe onto her and not what's actually on the screen. Let's take some of the other characters into account: Aang is in total denial about the fact that he's killed. He happily threw FN tanks over the side of a mountain during "The Northern Air Temple" fight. He didn't lose a night of sleep over that. But in the finale he's fronts "Oh I'm a vegetarian and have never killed someone (face to face) before." Denial ain't just a river in Egypt Aang. Katara also threw FN tanks over the side of the mountain too and water whipped FN blimps out of the sky. Sokka couldn't kill time until the finale. Ty Lee and Mai (in "The Drill" I think) take out an entire squad of EK soldiers and stand in a field of their fallen (and presumably dead) bodies. Compare all of them to Azula- who talks the talk (and can back that talk up) but has rarely had to walk the walk. She's spent her life cultivating a fearsome image that no one questions. The only confirmed kill we know of on screen is of course the title character of the show. Even in the finale I'm sure people thought that as soon as Azula started talking to that poor servant girl she was going to start screaming "Off with her head! Off with her head!". But all she did was banish her, same with the Dai Li, and Li (or Lo). Banishment (and it's not even entirely clear if she meant from the castle or the entire FN) thats the worst evil, sadistic Azula could come up with. Not torture, not imprisonment (like for the traitors Mai and Ty Lee), but banishment and not even with the traditional Ozai parting gift of a burn to the face- just a straight up get out. I might have to hide behind my couch in fear of the evil Fire Lady who sends everyone away.... scary! I'm not saying that Azula isn't bad (she is the show's best villianess afterall), but she's not Psychotic-Grandfather Killing-Blood Thirsty-Baby Eating-Serial Killer- that has Suki Chained to Her Bed as a Love Slave- that everyone wants to believe she is. And people seemed disappointed that she didn't order Mai and Ty Lee's executions. Just like Zuko & Katara aren't making whopee and proclaiming their undying love for each other every time we don't see them either.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Jul 22, 2008 11:49:41 GMT -5
Well, azula1, you certainly have an interesting way of looking at the Royal Family's relationship. Makes for a spirited, multi-faceted debate: the likes of which will probably decline now that the show is over. But I can foresee your talking-points raising questions and eliciting responses for a while.
I'm puzzled by your usage of "Fire Lady", when the dialogue drilled into our heads that Azula's title was that of "Fire Lord". Judging by your arguments, you seem to strive for accuracy, so I'm a bit perplexed at the use of a blatantly incorrect title.
Azula is sadistic. There really is no glossing around this fact. She enjoys the thought of torturing and killing her enemies. Whether or not this is a truly learned behavior, or purely the result of faulty mental hardwiring, remains to be seen... and will likely never be answered. Her smirk as she delivered the killing-blow to the Avatar -- seen in my icon -- is stark and a grim reminder of how far this fourteen-year-old girl has fallen into the depths of depravity. I don't think Ozai is entirely to blame, though he obviously encouraged this behavior. For her to be so ruthless at such a young age, at least some of it has to be inborn.
Ursa wondered what was wrong with her child, even though she knew of Ozai's obvious favortism and likely would have assumed -- if not seen firsthand -- the molding of their daughter into a weapon of destruction. She still wondered why Azula acted the way she did, indicating that there was something deeper and more sinister at work in her daughter's mind.
Zuko grew up with Ozai, too, and not once did he show signs of sadism. True enough, he wasn't groomed as Ozai's true heir, nor did it appear he spent any deal of time with his father, but the fact remains: he idolized Ozai. He wanted his father's love and respect more than anything else in the world. Even when Iroh stepped in to fill the void, his one-track mentality kept screaming, "I want Father's love!", to the point that he shoved his true father-figure away on a consistent basis.
Even though Zuko adored his father, he never once emulated his cruel behavior. He knew right from wrong and wasn't about to cross that line. His well-developed conscience, as well as the teachings of his mother and uncle, prevented him from mimicking Ozai. Presumably, Azula knew right from wrong, too -- but, unlike her brother, she didn't care. Not a single time did she seem torn over her father's motivations. We can all agree that she was a brilliant girl; frightfully sharp for a nine-year-old. Why, then, didn't she question ( at least to herself ) what her father was doing? Because she saw nothing wrong with it; she delighted in it.
There's something terribly wrong with her, that no amount of parenting from Iroh and/or Ursa could hope to fix.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 22, 2008 17:05:08 GMT -5
azula1- As you point out, Iroh told Zuko he could attend if he did not speak so Zuko disobeyed Iroh's instructions to his own detriment. I dont think its fair to say that Iroh could be held responsible for Ozai's reaction. Youve also noted that "Azula not liking him might stem from the things Ozai says about him and not anything Iroh did himself." If it wasnt something Iroh did to Azula, how does that make him Worse Uncle Ever? I think theres a limitation about what you can legitimately expect from an uncle. As for Ursa, I hate to break it to you but every parent gets exasperated with their children at some point or other to level of asking themselves what Ursa did. She probably felt the same way about Zuko at some other point in time. Thats just how parents do and doesnt signify much. Sure, its clear that Azula thought Ursa liked Zuko more than her but that doesnt mean that it was true. Regarding Azula's banishing spree, considering her direct knowledge of the banishment of her own mother and brother, I dont think theres any doubt that she intended it to mean from the entire Fire Nation. Nevertheless, I agree that by that time she had totally lost it and, to a large extent, couldnt be held responsible for her actions. In her right frame of mind, I have no doubt that she would have had her enemies tortured and killed but by then she was just (at least subconsciously) begining to face up to her own failures that had lead to her complete isolation. This ultimately manifested in the form of her halucination about her mother.
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Post by azula1 on Jul 22, 2008 22:12:59 GMT -5
At that point, in the series, between whenever Iroh stopped mourning Lu Ten and the Agni Kai- it's not impossible for Azula and Iroh to have gotten along (but Ozai's bad influence interfers remember Daddy doesn't like Iroh, and whoever Daddy doesn't like Azula doesn't like). However, I can't imagine any group of kids (even all of Ozai's Angels not laughing at Uncle Iroh's stories). Iroh's favoritism of Zuko doesn't help. What probably put Iroh over the top for disliking Azula was her reaction to Zuko getting burned.
I'm not sure what to think of the Ursa "halucination" from the finale. There are several theories going around that it was a halucination or Azula's conscience.
At first I thought it was a memory (since she was cutting her hair and Ursa said that she always liked her hair). But now I'm thinking that that might've been Ursa's ghost WWWOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! (who came to mess with Azula's mind one last time before going off to meet Lu Ten and Jet in the Spirit World. Just kidding).
Seriously, if Ursa was alive and well, wouldn't she have come to her precious darling Zuko's Fire Lord coronation? Especially with Ozai in prison.
And was Ursa truly and formally banished or did she just "disappear" (as in run away) so that Ozai never has to formally charge her with assassinating the Fire Lord (and so that his role is never brought to light either). Maybe Zuko helped Azula "disappear" too since we never see her in prison along side Ozai do we?
I would've thought for sure that Azula and Ozai would have neighboring cells where they would bicker and fight (over who's fault it was they lost) for the rest of their lives.
It's an interesting question Fire Lord Azula, why doesn't Azula question what Ozai does? I can't really say since Azula's only a recurring villian we don't get to see nearly enough of her (unlike Zuko who's a starring character). I'd rather come up with something based off of something from the show, then pull something out of my @$$. But I'll riddle you this: Why should Azula question anything she does? Mai and Ty Lee are right beside her nearly the entire series and they sold her out just because Zuko was nicer.
Azula: Come with me and let's track down the Avatar and win the war for the greater glory of the Fire Nation!
Mai: Sure, Fine, Whatever!
Ty Lee: Whoppeee! Squee!
Zuko: Aide me on my quest to restore balance to the 3 Nations and one Airbender while I overthrow the monarchy and become the new Fire Lord!
Mai: Sure, Fine, Whatever!
Ty Lee: Whoppee! Squee!
Neither one of them seem to give two craps about who wins the war. Theoretically, they should've sided with Azula just because her plans work 99% of the time.
BTW, that means that Mai is especially cold blooded since Bumi overthrew New Ozai City (Omashu) where her folks were in charge during the "Day of Black Sun" and she never saw or mentioned her parents or baby brother again. I guess Bumi killed them. But you wouldn't know from her actions.
And yes, Fire Lord Azula, I used the words "Fire Lady" (which is what I would've liked Azula's title to have been). I'm one of those people who don't like the idea that the masculine version of words is always thought of as being better than the feminine like there is something inherently wrong with all things feminine. No one would stand for the male heir to a throne being called the Earth Queen (it would just be thought of as silly). But make it masculine and all of a sudden Fire Lord gains a woman more "respect". I'd like all words to be equal. I would've really liked to have seen Azula wear a beautiful intricate traditional Fire Lady Queen costume for her coronation, really do it up right. Proving that yes, you can be both beautiful and have a great military mind.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Jul 22, 2008 22:48:56 GMT -5
It's an interesting question Fire Lord Azula, why doesn't Azula question what Ozai does? I can't really say since Azula's only a recurring villian we don't get to see nearly enough of her (unlike Zuko who's a starring character). I'd rather come up with something based off of something from the show, then pull something out of my @$$. But I'll riddle you this: Why should Azula question anything she does? Mai and Ty Lee are right beside her nearly the entire series and they sold her out just because Zuko was nicer. Why should she question anything she does? For the same reason her brother does, I should think. If the girl truly had a conscience, the pain and suffering of others would touch her, or at least invoke a sense of confliction at her hurtful actions. And yes, Fire Lord Azula, I used the words "Fire Lady" (which is what I would've liked Azula's title to have been). I'm one of those people who don't like the idea that the masculine version of words is always thought of as being better than the feminine like there is something inherently wrong with all things feminine. No one would stand for the male heir to a throne being called the Earth Queen (it would just be thought of as silly). But make it masculine and all of a sudden Fire Lord gains a woman more "respect". I'd like all words to be equal. I would've really liked to have seen Azula wear a beautiful intricate traditional Fire Lady Queen costume for her coronation, really do it up right. Proving that yes, you can be both beautiful and have a great military mind. Doesn't this conflict with your prior statements labeling Azula a tomboy? Which, by the way, I agree with 100% -- it's an irritant to see her painted by fandom as feminine and seductive, when she clearly isn't. While you're certainly granted your own view of what Azula's title "should or shouldn't have been", the correct terminology is "Fire Lord", in the same way Katara and Toph are designated "Masters" of their elements, rather than "Mistresses". At least you didn't address me as "Fire Lady Azula". ;P Thank you for respecting my username, if nothing else. If you'd like for all words to be equal, wouldn't a gender-neutral title do it for you? In Avatar, "Fire Lord" is clearly unisex. By addressing Azula as the Fire Lord, she's in no way singled out or demeaned. She has unquestionable authority with her lordship, just as her forefathers had. All of the power and prestige of the title are hers. "Lady" and "Queen" invoke images of a very womanly woman. Azula is in no way, shape, or form a lady. Have you ever heard of, in modern times, a "doctress" or an "aviatrix"? At one time, those were real words used to denote a female doctor and female pilot. They were used because women were considered "inferior" and acting as "impostors" in fields traditionally inhabited by men. As society thankfully progressed, such ridiculous terminology was dropped in favor of equality. Nowadays, we call everyone "doctors" and "aviators". Is this, in any way, a demeaning attitude toward women? Forgive me for finding your view contradicting -- perhaps you could clarify? I ask because you correctly pointed out Azula's tomboyishness in earlier posts, citing her attitude and clothing... but, now that she's assuming a role of power, you would like her to be feminized?
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fuego
Pabu
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Post by fuego on Jul 23, 2008 0:34:26 GMT -5
I love how the topic has chance from that should Iroh be hold responceable for Azula to dose Azula have "feelings" or just plain bad....I'm with the "bad to the bone"
Though the debate between Lord and Lady title could to the eye of the beholder.
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Post by azula1 on Jul 23, 2008 11:12:55 GMT -5
Azula may be a tomboy, but she is also a female. This is nothing wrong with a gender specific title, there is something wrong with the perception of the masculine being better than the feminine.
I wouldn't say that Azula's not a lady. I think when she hit puberty she began to take more of an interest in girlish pursuits: spa treatments, hair washing, and she certainly knew how to dress for "The Beach" party (afterall she didn't wear her FN military uniform did she). She might've gotten along much better with Ursa at that time. What bothers me about Ursa (one being that she has no formal title-if she ain't Fire Lady or Fire Queen what is she?) is that she seemed to have no power or say so in FN policies. Azula isn't the type to sit back and let others be in charge, she wants to be in charge herself, so of course she gravitated to the parent with all the power. Her being ambitious and wanting the job aren't bad things (afterall the Earth King of Bai Sing Sai had the power and he was worse than useless).
I took several Women's Studies courses where the teacher went through the dictionary and looked up the definitions of words like man, woman, human, etc And found that the definition of man and human are the same, but woman is different (as in not normal, lacking). I'm kinda disappointed in the show since none of the rulers in any of the nations was a woman- no Earth Queen ruling over her Earth Queendom. No Water Tribe Chieftainess ruling over a pond or something. Nothing. The only chick with any kind of real royal power is Azula and of course she's evil. What kind of message does that send? Being an ambitious female who's better at your job than everyone else and trying to over step your bounds will ultimatly leave you alone, unloved, and insane. I would've liked to see Azula (or anybody) be a good and powerful Queen who could be both feminine and tough.
Hopefully in Avatar: The Next Whatever they'll rectife that.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Jul 23, 2008 12:05:30 GMT -5
Azula may be a tomboy, but she is also a female. This is nothing wrong with a gender specific title, there is something wrong with the perception of the masculine being better than the feminine. And what would solve that problem? Making titles gender-ambiguous. That way, people wouldn't make judgments based on gender. They wouldn't automatically assume a woman was "weaker", "incompetent", or "unfit" to rule if her title was the same as a man's. They would see a leader stripped down to a human being ( which is what we all are, first and foremost: gender is secondary ). Why make such a stark division between male and female? All that's ever done is cause problems. Since men were, for the longest time, the only gender permitted to assume power, titles have taken on something of a "masculine" assumption. But this doesn't have to be so. As women achieve their long-deserved equality, they should be granted the same recognition men have always enjoyed. Hillary Clinton was running for President, an office traditionally held by men. No one feminized the title for her, and that's the way it should be! Besides, who would take a "Presidentress" seriously? That just sounds ridiculous. Female CEO's and CFO's... should we feminize their stations, too? Gender neutrality is really the way to go. It can't be denied that gender neutrality and societal progression go hand-in-hand. I wouldn't say that Azula's not a lady. I think when she hit puberty she began to take more of an interest in girlish pursuits: spa treatments, hair washing, and she certainly knew how to dress for "The Beach" party (afterall she didn't wear her FN military uniform did she). She might've gotten along much better with Ursa at that time. There's a difference between being a lady and being royalty. Oftentimes, they blend together, but not always. Azula is aggressive, confrontational, snarky, aloof, and demanding. Those traits are traditionally masculine. They're not what you think of when someone mentions the word "lady", correct? Hair-washing? Zuko presumably got those, too. Azula: Hello, Zuzu. If you've come for a royal hair-combing, I'm afraid you'll have to wait. Look how much he was pampered when his title was restored. They wouldn't even let him walk fifty feet to Mai's house! Zuko must be a demure lady himself. It's because the Fire Siblings are royalty that they indulge in the finer things in life, not because of femininity. Ty Lee pretty much held Azula's hand during The Beach, so I'm sure she helped the Fire Princess dress, too. Azula didn't even flinch when she was covered in slurry during The Drill. On the other hand, Mai, who is strangely thought of as somewhat masculine in fandom ( it makes no sense, but I digress... ), was thoroughly disgusted by the thought of getting dirty... so much so, that she put her own personal safety at risk by disobeying a direct order. Mai is a lady, pampered and fastidious. Azula will do anything to get the job done, grime or no grime, and her role in the show is that which has always been occupied by males. If Azula had been male -- as originally intended, from what I've heard -- there would be virtually no difference in his/her character. What bothers me about Ursa (one being that she has no formal title-if she ain't Fire Lady or Fire Queen what is she?) is that she seemed to have no power or say so in FN policies. Princess. She was married to Prince Ozai. When he became Fire Lord, she had already been banished, leaving no opportunity to assume a higher title... although it's possible she would've remained a Princess, anyway. Azula isn't the type to sit back and let others be in charge, she wants to be in charge herself, so of course she gravitated to the parent with all the power. Her being ambitious and wanting the job aren't bad things (afterall the Earth King of Bai Sing Sai had the power and he was worse than useless). Becoming Fire Lord is the perfect way to make a change. I took several Women's Studies courses where the teacher went through the dictionary and looked up the definitions of words like man, woman, human, etc And found that the definition of man and human are the same, but woman is different (as in not normal, lacking). With such bias, why would you want a woman to be singled out like that? A woman should feel empowered and made to matter in society, going in with a clean slate, rather than being prejudged on a divisive title. I've never heard of a woman who was unsatisifed with the title of CEO, CFO, President, manager, etc. ... and all of these, by your definition, were once "masculine" titles, on the basis that the only people permitted to assume them were men. Being an ambitious female who's better at your job than everyone else and trying to over step your bounds will ultimatly leave you alone, unloved, and insane. I would've liked to see Azula (or anybody) be a good and powerful Queen who could be both feminine and tough. Hopefully in Avatar: The Next Whatever they'll rectife that. I highly doubt kids, or anyone else, will think in those terms, but I could be wrong.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 23, 2008 15:44:19 GMT -5
^^ Are you two really arguing about whether a title should be gender specific or gender neutral? How did that become an issue? Historically, female monarchs have been referred to as Queens but as I recall in Avatar Ozai named Azula as "Firelord". I think this business of political correctness has gone overboard. Calling a person an actress instead of an actor isnt demeaning, its just a bit more discriptive of the person's gender. Likewise with terms like "King" and "Queen". If you were in a position of real authority (as a monarch is), you wouldnt have empowerment issues or feel the need to hide your gender behind a gender neutral title. Yes, many roles and titles today are gender neutral but gender neutral doesnt have to mean gender neutered. If Hillary had become President of the United States, Im sure she would have been referred to in person as "Madame President" not "Mr President".
Kiyoshi herself may well have been the ruler of Kiyoshi Island.There may still be a female ruler to Kiyoshi Island for all we know.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Jul 23, 2008 17:06:02 GMT -5
^We're "arguing" over this because I knew the issue was inevitable, as lurking on other forums has told me that not everyone is satisfied with what the creators deemed Azula's title to be. I'm explaining why it's perfectly acceptable for her to be called "Fire Lord".
It's not about "hiding" behind a gender-neutral title. It's about equality. Besides, "lord" can actually be used by both genders, though uncommon. The Lord of Mann is a woman.
Women CEO's, Presidents, etc. aren't gender-neutered by their titles. They're being put on equal ground.
I never said all gender-specific titles were bad. "Actress" and the like are fine, as they carry no hurtful connotations. Titles such as "doctress" and "aviatrix" really were used in a demeaning way. If you saw those words on paper, you were alerted right off the bat to a female practicing in those fields. Back then, women were viewed as "impostors" in those occupations. Thus, such singling-out was sexist and led to those women being shunned.
For a woman, being an actor was more acceptable than being a doctor or pilot. There was little-to-no negativity associated with acting.
And, while Hillary would have been addressed in person as "Madame President", she would be referred to in broad terms as "the President". When you watch a newcast, they don't always cite "Mr. Bush", or "Mr. President"; they oftentimes just say "the President". The title itself wouldn't have changed for Hillary.
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Azula's Flames
Avatar Korra
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Post by Azula's Flames on Jul 23, 2008 18:21:03 GMT -5
Well actually gender equality in the avaverse is changing through the course of the series. All the lead female characters are strong, independant women who dont need men Katara, Toph, Suki and of course Azula. These female character types are rare in a show originally intended for boys (I'm looking at you Mattel, I want an Azula action figure)
The Watertribe is the most obvious example of gender inequality but Katara went up there stood up to it and changed things. The earthkingdom we dont know so much about but at least amoung nobility it seems that the women are just there to look pretty (Toph and her mother) but Toph is changing things there. I think we can assume the Air nomads were equal....
The firenation looks to be the most equal, it has female soldiers and guards but they don't seem to be outside the FN. Azula commands respect and she receives it not just how you would normally see a show treat a princess. If it wasn't normal or highly frowned upon to have a female leader dont you think we would have seen some hints she she was appointed FL (out of her sight of course)
As to her tomboyish-ness, he getting pamered doen't impair that perception it is totally normal a royal who firmly belives she should be worshiped and as to her knowing how to dress for the beach Ty Lee likely had a big hand in that, she's practically her lady in waiting after all. Even Toph who is even more of a tom boy and rejects her upbringing knew how to dress for the occasion and ended up enjoying her day at the spa. Just because Azula doen't want to be feminine doesn't mean she cant (I know this from experiance)
Athough I dont know what this has to do with her and her uncle......
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 23, 2008 18:52:07 GMT -5
@ Firelord Azula. Terms like President and CEO were never gender specific in the first place so there was no need to come up with new terms. It wasnt an issue of political correctness. I agree that it is acceptable to refer to Azula as Firelord but not that it would have been demeaning to call her Firelady. The correct title is the Queen, Lord of Mann since it refers to Queen Elizabeth the Second (a current sole monarch who also sees no need to be called a "King").The title itself was created by Queen Elizabeth the First. In her reign, women werent permitted to act on the stage. Im glad you dont find the word "actress" demeaning but Ive read on several occasions of actresses demanding to be called "actors" as if the term was demeaning which was why I used it as an example.
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Post by azula1 on Jul 23, 2008 19:19:21 GMT -5
I'll have to be both brief and quick about this. I'm not against gender neutral titles or gender specific titles. There are still plenty of jobs and things that have gender specific titles that are still perfectly all right and others that people either perceive there is a problem with or are trying to bring back.
Lord/Lady
Duke/Duchess
Count/Countess
King/Queen
Comedian/Comedienne (seriously they're both pronounced the exact same way!)
Actor/Actress a couple of years ago when SAG (Screen Actors Guild) awards got started some people were offended that they were called "Actresses" as if Actress was a demeaning title. Whoopi Goldberg was one of the people talking about it. It just drove me batty.
Diva/Divo
Editor/Editrix I've read more than one story about editrixes of magazines trying to bring the term back in style.
As for "President" there's no male name or word in it like "Mailman" or "Policeman" or "Fireman" so there's really no need to change it.
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Post by Princess Azula on Jul 23, 2008 20:32:23 GMT -5
Most of my post is going to relate to the discussion above, but for a quick detour back to the actual topic--do we know what General Iroh's attitude was to HIH the Princess before his disgrace?
azula1: The correct plural of editrix is 'editrices'--it is a third declension Latin word.
Fire Lord Azula: I would dispute the notion that HIH the Princess Azula is a tomboy. You must recall that the term does not refer to a girl who exhibits masculine traits, but rather, a girl who is so far over to the masculine side that she may as well be male.
HIH Azula is not boisterous nor does she intentionally enjoy messes. She is impatient and ruthless, yes, but these are not qualities associated with tomboys. Her feminity is there, if held in check by an ambition for excellence. She pursues power above all else, and so she is quick to adopt expediency when necessary. She has no qualms about getting her feet wet.
But she does not relish it for its own sake. Observe her conduct before her coronation; this is hardly the sort of behavior for a tomboy. She is pampered when she is at leisure and she does not scorn such things unless they get in her way, such as when she abandoned her ceremonial retinue early in season 2.
Giving her an ambiguous gender identity simply robs her personality of the nuances that it does possess.
EDIT:
Azula's Flames: I must say that I love your icon.
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