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Post by firenationstooge on Oct 19, 2007 23:08:11 GMT -5
Although the gAang was a mere accessory, this episode was quite an enlightening view into the minds of the "antagonists."
Even Zuko, who we have followed since the very beginning, has revealed something about himself (how he hates himself).
I didn't expect to learn so much about Mai and Ty Lee either. Although we had some clues to their backgrounds (Mai and Ty Lee pretty much grew in response to their "privileged" lifestyles), it was much better to hear the explanations directly from the characters.
EDIT: Is it just me, or is the attack on the snobby kid's house a little overboard? It's not like he chewed anyone out (except Zuko). >_>
Azula, who we have seen little of besides a one-dimensional opponent to the main characters, revealed much about her character. That, after all the conjectures and guesses, she turns out to be not a psychopath or someone with a mental disability. She's more or less a normal person.
I'm starting to lean more on "nurture" instead of "nature" to explain her as a character.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Oct 19, 2007 23:10:49 GMT -5
I'm starting to lean more on "nurture" instead of "nature" to explain her as a character. Anybody who seriously ships Azula with someone (espeically Sokklians) have said this for months now. I've always known that she's a Nurture, and we only got to see tonight just how much. Her father has taught her one good things, though: how to keep moving on with life.
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Post by firenationstooge on Oct 19, 2007 23:16:10 GMT -5
Well I've never thought she was just insane. But I'm not too inclined to take shippers seriously either *coughZutaracough*
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Oct 19, 2007 23:19:59 GMT -5
Actually, I think us Sokkla shippers are some of the most sane of all. *nods*
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 19, 2007 23:20:04 GMT -5
Is it just me, or is the attack on the snobby kid's house a little overboard? Of course, but they are villains. Doing bad things for no reason is in their contract. Fortunately, the backstories in this episode aren't used to excuse their villainy, only to explain their personality quirks.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 20, 2007 2:29:17 GMT -5
people use way too much aggressive adjectives on Azula behavor and that why were confuse on her cause she "crazy" To state again...just cause she has a human side dosen't mean it well change for who she is on the outside....A Cold Hard Lady.
Defence mechanism should be read apon here since it is textbook case in this episode.
I did like Zuko and the explanation of his anger and I though he would say "the avatar" but he angry at himself for basically doing we he was told to do and he thought by doing so...he thought everything would return to "normal" but it cost him more then what he thought at the end. So I can see why Mai and Zuko relate well cause they basically are told what to do.
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
Icon by hermonthis from livejournal
Posts: 1,280
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Post by Maylene on Oct 20, 2007 2:34:56 GMT -5
Actually, I think us Sokkla shippers are some of the most sane of all. *nods* So do I, so do I. Also I agree with you about Azula and being second born. Though I doubt it's because she's female. It would seem being second born in the royal family isn't a big deal--and if you really think about it, it wasn't. Being second born was a spare, that if the first born didn't make to take the throne or leave an heir; the second born was to take over. Not to mention Azula seems like the only girl in her family (excluding Ursa) that's a girl in awhile. xtheStorytellerx: Very cool theory. I noticed the same thing too about Azula and Ozai. They're both second born too. What did I learn from the episode? -I'm more confused about Azula, that's the truth -Ty Lee wasn't an only child--I always thought she was. -Mai's fifteen years older than Tom Tom. And she was raised in the old fashioned way: don't speak if you're not spoken to; you're to be the submissive noble girl that you are, etc. -Zuko obviously doesn't care for family portraits, and when he was looking at it--he never did look at Azula. It was him, Daddy, and then Mommy. So maybe he and Azula weren't close after all. -The baby I believe in the flashbacks were Zuko, not Azula--because the boy had to be Luten. -Aang's an idiot for not listening to Toph. -Azula does care for her friends, or at least Ty Lee...I mean wow she comforted Ty Lee when she was crying. -This wasn't filler fanservice at all in my opinion...this was a great episode! -I finally knew what having fun with Azula romantically meant... TT__TT I still can't believe she kissed someone. -Azula's not the "get whatever I want" kind of gal when it comes to boys after all--it's Ty Lee! LoL poor princess scared off the guy she kissed.
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Post by Tungsten on Oct 20, 2007 2:38:36 GMT -5
The Mai backstory about how she had to behave all the time was good, it also fit along with the story given to her. Besides that I wasn't really a fan about the other ones. Ty Lee was alright, no real hinting behind it and it doesn't really flesh out her character too much. But Ty Lee wasn't nearly as bad as Zuko and Azula.
Zuko, yes he hates himself, but I think this issue needed to be brought up more subtly. Instead of "confessing" it I think instead it should just influence his social life in a self-destructing sort of way. If I were the writers I would have let Zuko and Mai break up but not make up later. I would have also kept his visit to his family's beach house. How he acts crazy, angry, and hotheaded because of him avoiding the issue of betraying his Uncle fits into his character. I think the message here is that Zuko mind cannot rest, and he is unable to relax in what is essentially paradise, not like Teen cliche movie where a character gets something off of his chest and then just moves on.
Azula was by far the worse out of the Fire Nation gang, simply because it's Azula. She's the girl everyone loves to hate. There's no need to flesh out her character and to humanize her. The entire season 2 was devoted to showing off how sadistic and heartless Azula is. She smiled when her Brother was scared. She was willing to kill her Uncle and Brother without a second thought. Her ties to others are ties of deciete and manipulation. She has some grasp of social skills, or else she wouldn't be able to manipulate people. She doesn't love rather she uses people to get what she wants. Making her seem human takes away from that. The writing for Azula was off, this episode the second they hit to the party. Azula doesn't care what people think of her. Instead of getting the evil Azula of Avatar that we all love instead we some lame super exaggerated type A / OCD Helga from Hey Arnold.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Oct 20, 2007 3:10:57 GMT -5
^Hear hear....speaking for myself, I neither wanted nor understand why they're trying to humanize Azula after an entire season of making her the most evil person on the show. It takes more away from her character than it adds.
So yes...gonna go with an "I told you so" myself. Azula acting "nice" would be ooc and ruin her as the supreme villain of the show. Her development, while funny, was my least favorite thing in the episode. I don't like Azula because she's funny...I liked her because she's evil. And, before this, that's ALL she's been. No me gusta.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 20, 2007 3:24:09 GMT -5
I thought human was the most dangerous animal...I never understood why the word "humanize" to be in a sence of good or nice...if most of the time were fight with each other
Werid is that she was still in her natural behavor throught the episode....being evil and mean toward others either as play or just crule like still trying to get her way and plot to win the volleyball game as well as being stuck up in the party. Maybe if she revealed who she was...maybe things would be different from the get go....but She still who she was in this episode.
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Post by psylum on Oct 20, 2007 5:22:41 GMT -5
^Hear hear....speaking for myself, I neither wanted nor understand why they're trying to humanize Azula after an entire season of making her the most evil person on the show. It takes more away from her character than it adds. So yes...gonna go with an "I told you so" myself. Azula acting "nice" would be ooc and ruin her as the supreme villain of the show. Her development, while funny, was my least favorite thing in the episode. I don't like Azula because she's funny...I liked her because she's evil. And, before this, that's ALL she's been. No me gusta. Uh, Azula is not the Surprime villain of the Show. That would be Ozai, and I wouldn't be surprised if they humanized him too. Avatar doesn't like black and white characters. Seriously, Azula's still a heartless monster, but a human heartless monster. You know, Humans tend to be scarier monsters than the ones we imagine.
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Post by ~*Tea Sage*~ on Oct 20, 2007 8:01:45 GMT -5
I don't think Azula was being out of character at all, I mean even the most sadistic people has some sort of a heart. Yeah there hate and anger is might be vented, but its always towards a selective group of people, in azula's case...that group is pretty big. But, when it comes to a more personal group (anyone she bonds with really) she shows a fair amount of compassion and affection.
Oh, and that second born royalty theory, lol makes alot of sense, explains why she might have not gotten alot of attention as a child, it support my theory.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Oct 20, 2007 9:54:55 GMT -5
That's because somewhere along the line, something or someone had to make them that way. People aren't born sadistic, folks. It takes time, a personal evolution, and hardcore experiences to get one that way.
Which is why I don't get people are still calling her a monster! Monsters don't *really* get character development, especially not character development as serious and in-depth as the one we were handed for Princess Azula. Zhao was our monster. Did we ever see him as more than a power-hungry, ruthless one-dimensional character? NOPE. Are we now able to see Azula in a new light, to realize and consider a new side of her character? YES.
So why throw that chance away?
I completely disagree. Who says we all love "evil" Azula? I think that is dreadfully boring, to only have that one side of her in the limelight.
And also incredibly unfair.
What kind of show would Avatar be, the show we all love because of its amazing characters, if the one person who's supposed to get some of the most in-depth character development doesn't?
We'd get your run-of-the-mill, everyday cartoon that no adult can take seriously because it can't even get its antagonists right (I refuse to call hardly any of the Fire Nation 4 "villians" anymore). Every other serious fandom- Star Wars, Harry Potter- insanely develops their antagonists. Why the heck can't ours? Brian and Mike know what their doing. -_-
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Post by catalyst283 on Oct 20, 2007 11:31:07 GMT -5
See, for the longest time no one has wanted to listen or even consider that Azula is human after all, only argue it down. I'm here to not swallow my correct-ness and instead to say a much-deserved "I TOLD YOU SO", because I have said from the very beginning that Azula has a side of her that no one ever sees, a side that one can relate to, a side that is vulnerable and caring and insecure and vaguely maternal... ...and yet she's still so strong and arrogant and full of power. ITA with you, completely and totally. (Which is why my Sokkla fic is as it is, especially the opening with the beautiful little character analysis on Azula, showing how there is more to her than the power and the perfection and the mask) Can I come along with the "I told you so"? You probably have said it longer than me, but I've believed it as well, ever since the beginning of season 2...YOU HAVE COMPLETED MY THOUGHTS, UTTERLY AND TOTALLY. (And said it better than I could, as well) ISTA. *karma* ( especially about the mother thing) EDITEDIT: Actually, I think us Sokkla shippers are some of the most sane of all. *nods* Oh you so are getting another bit of karma later for that. XD And ITA again, of course! (Cause we are! XDD)
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Post by firenationstooge on Oct 20, 2007 12:00:56 GMT -5
*reads posts*
That's it, some of you are beggin' for some karma! I'm looking at you psylum and daydream11.
I don't have the time for a more detailed post, but it's strange that when we finally get some character development for Azula, people actually complain about it! I guess it's a rude surprise to some that Azula isn't just a lightning tossing, city-burning robot who's planning the downfall of the world in every waking moment...
Really, this episode has hinted (or should I say blatantly pointed) at Azula being a person. A realistic, believable character who is a far cry from the gamut of one dimensional baddies who infest the universe of fiction.
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