jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 19, 2007 20:51:49 GMT -5
Since the entire point of "The Beach" was a display of the inner psyches of Ozai's Angels and Zuko, it makes sense to reserve a thread specifically for the character revelations/development made in the episode.
What did I learn? - Ty Lee has a crush on Zuko (which could be just because he's a guy, period). - Azula actually cares about Ty Lee. - Mai and Zuko aren't shallow enough to break up over a single, petty argument. - Azula has Asperger's Syndrome.
So, what did you learn?
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
Posts: 2,165
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Post by femaleairbender on Oct 19, 2007 21:03:07 GMT -5
- Ty Lee has a crush on Zuko (which could be just because he's a guy, period). I got the feeling that Ty Lee had a crush on Zuko, too, but it could be that she was just trying to show some compassion to him. - Azula has Asperger's Syndrome. What's Asperger's Syndrome? I learned that: 1. Ty Lee has six sisters who look like her, she went to join the circus because she wanted an identity, she craves attention from boyfriends because she didn't get much of it as a child, and it's possible that she has a crush on Zuko. 2. Mai has an overly strict mother and a father that was hardly there because he was too busy with his career. 3. Azula can actually be human, and it's very possible that she cared that Ursa favored Zuko over her and that Ursa thought Azula was a monster.
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Post by ~*Tea Sage*~ on Oct 19, 2007 21:05:35 GMT -5
- I shall be next inline to be Azula guy...but would probably end up with 2nd degree burn 5 minutes later....but who said love never hurt....(J/K) - Azula cold, calculating, competitive and aggressive nature, spawned from a lack of affection or attention from her mom. I have a theory that as a 2nd bornchild, her parents failed to give her as much attention as Zuko, maybe because they felt Zuko need it more or something. So I guess thats why she grew up to be so competitive and calculating, ultimately she stride the be the best firebender as a mean to find affection in her household, I guess Ozai saw her potential and took her in. And I think Azula just became a calculating perfectionist, because thats what he father wanted. I think her cold and aggressive nature, was merely a way to help he climb up the ladder easier. But while she favored her father, she grew further away from her mother, never knowing that her mother loved her..... Oh crap, could this be a parallel between Ozai and Azula, and parental problems? Could this be the reason why, Azula likes to see Zuko suffer, and struggle for find acceptance amongst his parent(s), sorta of like a resentment for what she had to go through as a child....
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Post by WyrmKing on Oct 19, 2007 21:09:19 GMT -5
I learned that the episode was actually "The Breakfast Club 2".
Don't you... forget about me! Don't don't don't don't!
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Post by NoraBlack on Oct 19, 2007 21:15:44 GMT -5
lol, I don't think so. From what I know about Asperger's (I know at least one person with it) it means that you have difficulty understanding social norms and reading people. It doesn't mean that you're violent and/or sociopathic. Azula is very good at reading people, she can even manipulate them. What social awkwardness she does have is mostly because she's never had the chance to be a normal teenager.
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Oct 19, 2007 21:32:04 GMT -5
What's Asperger's Syndrome? I'll post the basics about Asperger Syndrome, and you can decide for yourselves. Asperger Syndrome is one of the autism spectrum disorders: a spectrum of psychological conditions that are characterized by abnormalities of social interaction and communication that pervade the individual's functioning, and by restricted and repetitive interests and behavior. The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture. Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly, for example by engaging in a one-sided, long-winded speech about an unusual topic while being oblivious to the listener's feelings or reactions, such as signs of boredom or wanting to leave. This social awkwardness has been called "active, but odd". This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive. The cognitive ability of children with AS often lets them articulate social norms in a laboratory context, where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people’s emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid real-life situations. People with AS may analyze and distill their observation of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines and apply these rules in awkward ways -- such as forced eye contact -- resulting in demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desires for companionship can be numbed through a history of failed social encounters. The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated and found to be unsupported by data. Though, in Azula's case, it's a very interesting observation.
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 19, 2007 21:37:39 GMT -5
I was referring to Azula's inability to grasp the most basic social norms, despite being a strategic military genius. The sociopathy is completely unrelated.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
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Post by daydream11 on Oct 19, 2007 22:29:16 GMT -5
See, for the longest time no one ahs wanted to listen or even consider that Azula is human after all, only argue it down. I'm here to not swallow my correct-ness and instead to say a much-deserved "I TOLD YOU SO", because I have said from the very beginning that Azula has a side of her that no one ever sees, a side that one can relate to, a side that is vulnerable and caring and insecure and vaguely maternal...
...and yet she's still so strong and arrogant and full of power.
She's not crazy, she's not a sociopath, she doesn't have any mental disease. She grew up in a court that taught her to be like the utmost nobility she is (so don't go saying that she can't grasp social norms; she's supposed to be above them), she's second-born and a girl (which automatically made her second-rate, which most likely plays a humongous part in her personality as a headstrong warrior), and her mother didn't really give her the time of day.
And from what I hear about mothers, no matter much of a bad child a kid is, a mother is the last person who's going to abandon them, and probably not at all. I don't see Ursa in the same way.
She's Azula, and I say that we should take her as she is. She's not a bad person, I don't think. She's just doing her job, honestly, regarding the war. In her personal life, she is just another person going through life.
Maybe she happens to be better at it than most, is all.
There's a reason why I love her so much, and that's just it right there.
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 19, 2007 22:32:47 GMT -5
Here's something minor that just occurred to me: Ty Lee said Mai was an only child for 15 years. Azula said in RtO that her brother is two. So Mai is officially 17-years-old.
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Post by WyrmKing on Oct 19, 2007 22:37:21 GMT -5
See, for the longest time no one ahs wanted to listen or even consider that Azula is human after all, only argue it down. I'm here to not swallow my correct-ness and instead to say a much-deserved "I TOLD YOU SO", because I have said from the very beginning that Azula has a side of her that no one ever sees, a side that one can relate to, a side that is vulnerable and caring and insecure and vaguely maternal... ...and yet she's still so strong and arrogant and full of power. She's not crazy, she's not a sociopath, she doesn't have any mental disease. She grew up in a court that taught her to be like the utmost nobility she is (so don't go saying that she can't grasp social norms; she's supposed to be above them), she's second-born and a girl (which automatically made her second-rate, which most likely plays a humongous part in her personality as a headstrong warrior), and her mother didn't really give her the time of day. And from what I hear about mothers, no matter much of a bad child a kid is, a mother is the last person who's going to abandon them, and probably not at all. I don't see Ursa in the same way.She's Azula, and I say that we should take her as she is. She's not a bad person, I don't think. She's just doing her job, honestly, regarding the war. In her personal life, she is just another person going through life. Maybe she happens to be better at it than most, is all. There's a reason why I love her so much, and that's just it right there. I wouldn't say she's second-rate because she's a girl. Judging from what we've seen from the Fire Nation, they're far from sexist. And Ozai has already groomed her to be his heiress. That should indicate that the Fire Nation has no problem with a female ruler.
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Teoji
Meng
Teo's #1 fangirl
My OTP!
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Post by Teoji on Oct 19, 2007 22:38:08 GMT -5
wow - amazing powers of observation jillrg . . . I would have never noticed that one. *thumbs up*
Unfortunately I do have to disagree with your theory that Azula is an Aspie (person with Aspergers). My boyfriend is an Aspie, and even at his most socially awkward, he does not behave like Azula did. She's showing the traits of someone who lived a sheltered life, away from 'typical' teenagers, and therefore doesn't understand teenage society. I've seen plenty of . . . not normal, but neurologically typical people who have such problems. Some Home Schooled people have had issues such as those.
nice to know my "have had" means positively nothing
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Ming Ue
Haru
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Post by Ming Ue on Oct 19, 2007 22:46:34 GMT -5
I learned that Azula is so adorable when she tries to be normal
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 19, 2007 22:47:13 GMT -5
wow - amazing powers of observation jillrg . . . I would have never noticed that one. *thumbs up* Unfortunately I do have to disagree with your theory that Azula is an Aspie (person with Aspergers). My boyfriend is an Aspie, and even at his most socially awkward, he does not behave like Azula did. Me, too, and I (frightening as it sounds) sympathize with Azula's feelings of how "shallow and stupid" typical teenaged interation is, among other things.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Oct 19, 2007 22:49:12 GMT -5
See, for the longest time no one ahs wanted to listen or even consider that Azula is human after all, only argue it down. I'm here to not swallow my correct-ness and instead to say a much-deserved "I TOLD YOU SO", because I have said from the very beginning that Azula has a side of her that no one ever sees, a side that one can relate to, a side that is vulnerable and caring and insecure and vaguely maternal... ...and yet she's still so strong and arrogant and full of power. She's not crazy, she's not a sociopath, she doesn't have any mental disease. She grew up in a court that taught her to be like the utmost nobility she is (so don't go saying that she can't grasp social norms; she's supposed to be above them), she's second-born and a girl (which automatically made her second-rate, which most likely plays a humongous part in her personality as a headstrong warrior), and her mother didn't really give her the time of day. And from what I hear about mothers, no matter much of a bad child a kid is, a mother is the last person who's going to abandon them, and probably not at all. I don't see Ursa in the same way.She's Azula, and I say that we should take her as she is. She's not a bad person, I don't think. She's just doing her job, honestly, regarding the war. In her personal life, she is just another person going through life. Maybe she happens to be better at it than most, is all. There's a reason why I love her so much, and that's just it right there. I wouldn't say she's second-rate because she's a girl. Judging from what we've seen from the Fire Nation, they're far from sexist. And Ozai has already groomed her to be his heiress. That should indicate that the Fire Nation has no problem with a female ruler. That's true, too, but we don't know if Azula was simply praised for being a prodigy (never mind being a girl) and that having a woman ruler is accepted, or if that is something the the royal family cares about. We know that the world doesn't care too much about gender roles in Avatar Land (at least three our of four natiosn didn't... can't forget the Northern Water Tribe), but I assume that the Fire Nation hasn't even had a female as their top ruler. The Fire Nation reminds me an awful lot of how the customs were way-back-when, 'tis all. Home Schooled people have had issues such as those. Stereotype if there ever was one. The least you could do was say "some", because I know of a few homeschoolers who aren't socially awkward in the least bit.
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Teoji
Meng
Teo's #1 fangirl
My OTP!
Posts: 285
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Post by Teoji on Oct 19, 2007 22:54:58 GMT -5
If I had meant all of them, I would have said all, and in my experience, "have had" sort of limits the generalization. But I changed it for you anyways, since it offended.
There are a lot worse generalizations made anyways, and generalizing anyone that's socially awkward as an Aspie is pretty bad in itself. I've been victimized by many stereotypes.
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