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Post by mindbender18 on Oct 11, 2007 13:17:20 GMT -5
I don't even see Zuko as a "typical teenager". He would probably be one of those teenagers you hear about in the news who shot up a high school or something
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Post by Amira on Oct 11, 2007 13:18:02 GMT -5
This discussion needs to stop its current course of being offensive and nasty. Otherwise I will lock it, trash it, and start giving warnings.
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Oct 11, 2007 14:31:32 GMT -5
I'm probably showing my Aspie-ness here, but what's offensive or nasty about it?
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Post by brilliantlygreen on Oct 11, 2007 14:51:48 GMT -5
Aang can be goofy and crazy, but it doesn't mean he is immature. He amazes me at just how grown up he can act during serious times. He knows when it's time to have fun, and when its time to act like a man. If there is nothing serious going on, then Aang is going to have fun. It has nothing to do with his age. It was to do with his personality. Aang is an easy-going kid who tends to look for the positives in life. He was raised to make and keep peace. So it's in his nature to act the way he does.
Zuko is not immature either. But just because he is serious 90% of the time, it doesn't mean that he has the 'one-up' on Aang when it comes to maturity.
They're just two different teenage boys who handle life and it's difficulties in completely different ways.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 18:14:38 GMT -5
(Firework, I know why you didn't include Sokka, but just because I'm a rebel, I'm gonna keep insisting that Sokka's better than both these guys ;p) Paahhh, sure Sokka could be the protagonist. If you gave him the Avatar powers, he'd be a more productive hero than Aang, imo. I get this strong, sad feeling that, without his friends, Aang would still be riding around aimlessly without any idea where to go or what to do. He's not once showed himself to stand out as THE hero. It's almost like, if he wasn't the avatar, he needn't have anything to do with the war. That's what I don't like...it's almost like we don't need the main character. We need the Avatar...but, sadly, not Aang. Don't get me wrong, he's a great kid, but as a hero I just can't get the feeling that he's lacking. Why? He's never once been off on his own and showed his limits and skills. Heck, even Harry Potter, who relied strongly on his friends, showed his personal limits every book. I'll tell you the kind of hero I like....Michael Scofield from Prison Break, for example. This guy's a crafty SOB...he gets himself arrested to break his brother out of jail, and had the plans for the prison's construction tattooed all over his body to help his escape. He's the kind of guy who's got a master plan, and you've better follow along or get out of his way. Just listen to this description: "Michael has been clinically diagnosed with low latent inhibition, a condition in which his brain is more open to incoming stimuli in the surrounding environment. As a result he is unable to block out peripheral information and instead processes every aspect and detail of any given stimulus. This, combined with a high IQ, as a psychiatrist explains in the episode "Tweener", theoretically makes him a creative genius." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_ScofieldHence why I like Sokka...and Aang's just following his lead. Why have we never seen Aang argue with Sokka? Because he's just happily agreeing with him. Even in The Painted Lady he agreed with Sokka about leaving the village...but then later agreed with Katara about staying. Like he didn't really have any opinion either way, he just wanted to follow the lead. Usually, in the end of a book or season, the hero does something to stand out and show his worth. What did Aang do at the end of book one? Nothing really...the ocean spirit merged with his Avatar spirit...he wasn't even in controll of himself. In the end of book two? Well, we all saw how that went... As for Zuko...phaw. I admit I don't hold him to as high standards as I do Aang, because he's not the main character, but Zuko's not the brightest torch on the wall. I always had hopes that he would stick to his morals, even if he descends deeper, which was why I was rather dissapointed when he goes and hires an assassin. I can't gripe about his choice, because I understand the direction his story is going, but if he doesn't get a move on with it I'll be quite grumpy. He's too grumpy and self-centered most of the time to win my vote, and never seems to know what he wants. So yeah, Sokka's already pretty much telling Aang what to do...just give him the Avatar powers and we pretty much wouldn't need Aang anymore. And I hate that. I love Sokka, but I don't like that the main character seems almost...uneccesary. Not to mention that Sokka's about five times more clever and clear-headed than Zuko.
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Silent_E
Appa
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Post by Silent_E on Oct 11, 2007 19:16:07 GMT -5
Aang doesn't always agree with Sokka. One of the most notable times that he did disagree with him openly was in "The Awakening". He hated how Sokka's key to his plan was the belief that Aang was dead. He even openly said to Katara that he hated the invasion itself and that he didn't want anyone to get invovled in his battle with Ozai. Later in that episode he agrees with the plan, but that was just one of the times he disagreed with Sokka. (Or at least was skeptical about his plans.)
Aang took charge in SoTN. He openly said that he wasn't there to defend his people when the Fire Nation attacked, and that he was going to make a difference when they attacked the Northern Water Tribe. (and he did) Anytime Aang talks in the avatar state, he has some control (remember when he was talking to the sandbenders while in the avatar state.) so I believe when he joined with the Ocean spirit he did it willingly to stop the Fire Navy fleet.
In the second finale, Aang agreed to work with Iroh where Sokka was hesitant to do so. (Aang was quicker to agree and work with Iroh than Sokka was....and Katara is his sister.)
So Aang is a capable leader.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 19:34:05 GMT -5
Aang never challenged Sokka to his face though. Instead of trying to change the plan to one that suited him, he ran away. He didn't dislike the plan for military reasons...he disliked that people thought he was dead. He disliked it for personal reasons. What he said to Katara was almost a temper-tantrum.
It never had anything to do with the plan...Aang was just ashamed to think that the world would consider him gone again. But Sokka was right....it's their best advantage now. Aang just wanted his "honor" back.
The North Pole? He went out with the plan of taking out the ships one-by-one...he didn't really exact some master plan. The closest thing was when he entered into the spirit world in search of answers.
And Aang didn't have the ability to willingly enter the Avatar State at that time. The AS took over and merged with the Ocean Spirit.
As for the second part...well Sokka was right in the end, wasn't he? Zuko turned his back on them ;p
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Oct 11, 2007 19:49:54 GMT -5
I think he entered a pre-avatar state before he actually merged with the Ocean spirit. Every time he talks while his eyes are glowing, I think he is somewhat concious of what he is doing.
As far as the invasion plan as a whole goes, Sokka seems to be more invested about attacking and (dare I say) killing the Fire Lord. Where it is Aang's duty to bring balance back into the world. Sokka could probably care less what happened to the Fire Nation after the war is over, whereas Aang cares because he knows what the Fire Nation was like before the war. So I guess, as far as their ultimate goals are concerned, they are both leaders.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 20:02:15 GMT -5
They need to kill the Fire Lord to prevent him from contacting Sozin's comet, and thus killing out the rest of the earth and water benders like what happened to the Air Nomads. The only way they can restore balance is by stopping this from occuring.
Afterwords...no one can say that Sokka doesn't care about innocent Fire Nation citizens. He went out of his way to save them in "Jet."
Truth to tell, Aang seems to be the one who hasn't much considered life after the war. He never seems to consider the future at all. He'd much rather play around, it seems.
And again, what is Aang leading? People follow him because he's the Avatar, and he feels compelled to lead because he's the Avatar...but if he wasn't the Avatar? He wouldn't have anything to do with this war, probably. He's not doing this out of choice, but obligation and guilt in the knowledge that he HAS to. Sokka is doing this willingly, though. He doesn't have to help Aang. Right now, the entire hope of the world rests on Sokka's shoulders! He's the one who made the plan, (and while no one can say that he did this without help) he's the one leading the war effort. He's basically giving the Avatar orders!
Again, it's almost like they don't need Aang except for the symbolism that he brings. Give Sokka some bending and a connection to the spirit world and Aang could wander off into the sunset.
Which is what I don't like. Hopefully he'll take charge in the second have of this season.
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Oct 11, 2007 20:28:33 GMT -5
But..but..but..but...nah, I can see what you are saying. However Aang has taken up his leadership role throughout both seasons 1 and 2. Remember when Sokka came up with the plan to take out the drill. It didn't work out neccesarily as he said he it would, but Aang adjusted the plan. His adjustment to the plan worked out in the end.
I got to admit, after the first episode of this season, Aang has been somewhat slacking off. The thing is, he's helping to restore what the Fire Nation used to be. He is even changing Sokka's view of the Fire Nation before his eyes, so he is in a round about way doing his job but he needs to pick up the pace and get ready for the invasion.
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yiceman
Bosco
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Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 20:43:47 GMT -5
Yeah Aang's had fits and bouts of leading, but on the whole he's been the "following hero." It should be the other way around...Aang should be the one leading events and making the major plans, and his friends should be the ones who make suggestions.
And yeah he's been slacking so far this season...in The Headband he just wanted to blend in with normal kids, and then later decided to throw a dance party...because that'll help the war effort. In The Painted Lady he didn't do much at all...first he agreed with Sokka that they should leave the village, then he agreed with Katara that they should help. He didn't seem to care either way.
But Sokka's been right the whole time...in both cases Aang and Katara were pretty much wasting time that they should focus on the real goal. They have to stop Ozai from using the comet or else the world's pretty much doomed.
I think that they will have Aang take charge after the eclipse...sadly, Sokka's plan is doomed to fail (the laws of storytelling demand it), and hopefull Aang comes up with the next plan himself.
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Silent_E
Appa
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Post by Silent_E on Oct 11, 2007 20:55:53 GMT -5
Sokka's plan is not doom to ultimately fail. They may land a big blow, it just that the area their striking may not be a critical one. If and once the plan doesn't work out how it is supposed to, Aang may adjust the plan as he did with taking down the drill. (Maybe Zuko will finally become his firebending teacher!)
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Oct 25, 2007 10:40:28 GMT -5
Zuko is so[/b] the most important character on the show now.
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Post by frozenwind141 on Oct 25, 2007 10:50:09 GMT -5
[/b] the most important character on the show now.[/quote] ...So Aang saving the entire world and bringing balance is not as important as Zuko trying to decide whether or not he should leave daddy?
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fuego
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Post by fuego on Oct 25, 2007 11:04:00 GMT -5
each share the same path but different....way of going through it....it easy to root for Zuko to change because majority of us can see that in ourselves more then the good guys...Still Aang has to over come a lot and show that even in that young age that he should be taken seriously.
Still is about your prefrence
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