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Post by ~*Tea Sage*~ on Jul 8, 2008 2:17:09 GMT -5
I personally don't think Katara is the most powerful waterbender, but I think she is the most diverse waterbender out there, not only does she know the basics of some of the most well known waterbending styles out there. Her "field" experiences, allows her to adapt to almost any battle situation, in various environment.
But being a prodigy like herself, I'm sure she'll rise to the top as world greatest waterbender in no time. I think what seperate her from half of the waterbenders in the world is real combat experience. Most waterbender either trained under safe environment or had other pratically application for waterbending other than fighting.
p.s. Now that I think about it, Aang has a pretty powerful crew. Two of the members (Toph and Katara) are bending prodigies. The other members (Zuko) is a pretty well rounded and decent firebender himself, trained under the Dragon of the West, and (Sokka) the tactical and "tech" whiz of the team, who is said to have the potential to be the world greatest swordsmen. Not bad aang, not bad.
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SpiritBender
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Post by SpiritBender on Jul 10, 2008 22:05:09 GMT -5
^^I've been saying all along that Aang needed allies who were capable of defeating the Fire Nation's greatest, which is why he was given two bending prodigies for teachers. Zuko, while not a prodigy, has managed to become very skilled through hard work and determination, which the show has repeatedly emphasized as being more important than raw talent. It also helps that he's studied under the greatest firebenders in the world (Iroh and the dragons). While Azula outshined him growing up because of her raw talent, Zuko traveled far and wide, studied different styles, gained a deeper understanding of the element of fire itself, and now has surpassed Azula. Wisdom, spiritual awareness, and sheer determination prove to be more powerful than mere power and perfection.
This was a little off topic, but to get back on track, Katara will definitely become the most powerful waterbender when she reaches her full potential (aside from the Avatar himself). For now though, I have to say that it's Hue. Most people don't seem to appreciate how powerful and spiritually evolved he is. NOBODY can do the kinds of things he can do. People seem to discount him because we haven't seen him a whole lot, but that just reminds me of the debates about Iroh that were had a few months ago. We haven't seen the true extent of what Iroh is capable, but the show constantly implies, both subtly and explicitly, that his firebending skills are unparalleled.
*steps off the soapbox*
-- SpiritBender
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 10, 2008 23:31:24 GMT -5
^Even in his element, Katara more or less took out Hue before the fighting was called off. While undoubtedly impressive, I think Hue's skills are too esoteric for him to be considered the most powerful waterbender. I dont think spiritual enlightenment is much of an issue here. *runs off with soapox*
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Jul 11, 2008 13:13:05 GMT -5
SpiritBenderSorry, but there is one being who beats Hue in spirituality. Yue! Then she is the moon spirit, so it's a bit unfair. I'm willing to say that Pakku, Hue, and Hana are the most powerful of their respective regions (if only they were in their prime) they would be the three greatest waterbenders in the world. Katara having studied under 2 of the 3, while still learning from Hue, has the experience to outmaneuver them in almost any terrain.
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Jul 11, 2008 23:53:29 GMT -5
Hue. Nobody else can create a giant plant monster or do the things that Hue can. Hue is in the same category as Bumi and Iroh. He has reached a level of spiritual awareness and understanding of his element that puts him in a category far above any other waterbender in the world. Katara (and Aang) will get there eventually, but not yet. -- SpiritBender I was going to post Huu, but it seems someone else said it first, Huu may not do much else besides vinebending, but that doesn't mean thats all he can do, he is just a calm, peaceful guy, the giant swamp monster thing is good to scare people away so he doesn't have to fight, and besides that it is really effective ^Even in his element, Katara more or less took out Hue before the fighting was called off. While undoubtedly impressive, I think Hue's skills are too esoteric for him to be considered the most powerful waterbender. I dont think spiritual enlightenment is much of an issue here. *runs off with soapox* Katara needed help to take Huu out...
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kooties
Iroh
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Post by kooties on Jul 31, 2008 11:35:01 GMT -5
I think Pakku could still whup Katara in waterbending.
One, Pakku is the master of the SUPERIOR waterbending style. There's a reason why North Pole endured while South Pole crumbled, and it isn't that far off to think that NT has the superior style. Survival of the fittest.
Two, bloodbending isn't really a style, but rather a technique and Katara has a Major disadvantage here. Bloodbending is what I call Waterbending Armwrestling, as we saw with Hama and Katara, raw power is what wins here. And I think Pakku has the upper hand here.
Next, I think Pakku is signifcantly stronger than Hu. Reason is their respective invasions. Hu had more allies, and more favorable skies (eclipse), and performed worse than Pakku who had significantly fewer allies and the worst possible condition (Sozins comet). Granted that Pakku did have 2 fire geniuses on his side, but alone he could still hold his own.
Also being well rounded doesn't necessarily mean better. Sometimes concentration to one aspect is what gives you the edge.
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Jul 31, 2008 16:27:22 GMT -5
^Hang on there...
First matter: The South, though sturdy and growing, still wasn't as prepared as the North. Their environment was susceptible to almost any attack from the Fire Nation. The Northern seas are much more deadly to traverse than the Southern ones.
Second matter: During the invasion of the North, Pakku was at home, he had favorable surroundings and a full moon to boot. We can't say Huu had more allies than Pakku, because the North is filled with waterbenders. As for Sozin's comet, Pakku had the power of firebenders and earthbenders, as well as a swords master to combat the Fire Nation. We never did see him go against the Air ships did we? While Huu and his swamp tribe took on the fleet and had some success blocking their dynamite bombs. The disadvantage there was mainly to FN technology which overwhelmed Bending.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 31, 2008 19:37:50 GMT -5
^^ Horyo, you raise some very good points. Considering that Zhao took the time to assemble his fleet, why didnt he time his invasion when there wasnt a full moon. kooties Katara has the benefit of Pakku's training and her own natural talent and tenacity to say nothing of youthful energy. As for comparison's of "raw power", (ala Yoda) Judge me by my size, do you? Hmmm? Still, in the end ".. the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happens to them all."
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kooties
Iroh
why can't it be canon T_T (also this icon is proof that Night pwns j00!)
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Post by kooties on Jul 31, 2008 21:20:31 GMT -5
@ horyo In my post I didn't reference the seige of the north.
The Pakku invasion that I was referring to was the Ba Sing Se invasion. He DID have the earthbender and firebender backing him up, but those were mere equalizers because his enemies were charged up by a great deal by Sozin's Comet. And he definitely had fewer allies (about 4-8) than Hu in his day of black sun invasion.
Hu not only had Earthbenders and Waterbenders to work with. He had mechanics (Teo and Dad), tanks, the Southern Water Tribe, Katara, Toph, Sokka, and an eclipse. He couldn't have possibly asked for any more favorable conditions.
@asian malaysian.
I'm sorry I don't watch star wars. Although I do get the basic gist of that quote, that the outcome of something, or the start of something may not be a a cause of talent, rather a complication of circumstance. But isn't that a quote about discovery of latent powers?
"The race is not to the swift." A race is definitely to the swift, why would it be otherwise?Assuming conditions are fair if a person beats another in a race does that not make him more swift? I think (I THINK) that the quote is referring to the discovery of something like, it isn't because one is naturally swift the race is theirs, more of that a person was circumstanced into the race and wins it even though he isn't necessarily the swiftest.
Also if Katara brings her talent, Pakku brings experience.If Katara brings here tenacity, Pakku brings his stubborness. And if Katara brings her youthful energy, Pakku brings his youthful energy as well. As we know youth isn't a measure of age, rather it is a measure of vigor and determination and I think Pakku has it in spades.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 31, 2008 21:28:41 GMT -5
^^ "The race is not to the swift." quote is from Leviticus. Its basically the Bible's way of saying that "Sh*t happens." or that "Even the sun shines on a dog's Equus asinus some days." And it does.
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Aug 1, 2008 2:56:57 GMT -5
But the main issue were the airships. I don't think Pakku, or Huu could have done well with the Airship bombardment.
The only thing Pakku combated were powered up pawns, and a few tanks. I'm sure Huu could have done just as well, and form what I noted Huu and the swampmen were there to guard the subs. If the airships did arrive, I'm sure the firebender masters could have handled that with their flight.
Another speculation is that the DoBS was expected, while the Liberation of Ba Sing Se (shouldn't be?) and merely used soldiers to fend off a fortress than using troops to fend off their king.
As for the Zhao-full moon thing, it must have taken an incredibly long time to reach the North, by that time rations were probably shortened and Zhao was eager to win, with the arrogance that not even the moon spirit's energies could stop him.
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kooties
Iroh
why can't it be canon T_T (also this icon is proof that Night pwns j00!)
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Post by kooties on Aug 1, 2008 5:04:24 GMT -5
The Liberation was probably pretty much expected. I doubt that no one saw that camp, when it was relatively near Ba Sing Se, and since it hasn't been that long of a time since it's capture, the Fire Nation would still be on high alert.
Also I believe Pakku could take on the Airships. His waterspout can simulate flight and he could work from that. If you say that he theoretically could not reach that, if you look back to the scene where Iroh burned the FN flag you could see from the back that the water reached about as high as the earth and the fire. Hu theoretically could, but his style is severely limiting him in that regard though.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 1, 2008 9:39:57 GMT -5
I just watched Southern Raiders again and that look on Zuko's face when Katara used blood bending on that captain said it all. At that point, I think he would have gladly faced Azula with one arm tied behind his back than face Katara.
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Aug 11, 2008 10:37:37 GMT -5
I think Pakku could still whup Katara in waterbending. One, Pakku is the master of the SUPERIOR waterbending style. There's a reason why North Pole endured while South Pole crumbled, and it isn't that far off to think that NT has the superior style. Survival of the fittest. Two, bloodbending isn't really a style, but rather a technique and Katara has a Major disadvantage here. Bloodbending is what I call Waterbending Armwrestling, as we saw with Hama and Katara, raw power is what wins here. And I think Pakku has the upper hand here. Next, I think Pakku is signifcantly stronger than Hu. Reason is their respective invasions. Hu had more allies, and more favorable skies (eclipse), and performed worse than Pakku who had significantly fewer allies and the worst possible condition (Sozins comet). Granted that Pakku did have 2 fire geniuses on his side, but alone he could still hold his own. Also being well rounded doesn't necessarily mean better. Sometimes concentration to one aspect is what gives you the edge. Superior waterbending style? Judging from how they move when they bend it looks exactly the same, the only different waterbending style shown is the Foggy Swamp Water Tribe's waterbending I just watched Southern Raiders again and that look on Zuko's face when Katara used blood bending on that captain said it all. At that point, I think he would have gladly faced Azula with one arm tied behind his back than face Katara. lol yea, I remember that, that was a funny face
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Aug 11, 2008 17:08:49 GMT -5
The Liberation was probably pretty much expected. I doubt that no one saw that camp, when it was relatively near Ba Sing Se, and since it hasn't been that long of a time since it's capture, the Fire Nation would still be on high alert. Also I believe Pakku could take on the Airships. His waterspout can simulate flight and he could work from that. If you say that he theoretically could not reach that, if you look back to the scene where Iroh burned the FN flag you could see from the back that the water reached about as high as the earth and the fire. Hu theoretically could, but his style is severely limiting him in that regard though. It seemed pretty well hidden to me, so the fact that they didn't try to swarm the camps with massive strikes before hand might be something to note. Eh, Pakku was in Ba Sing Se, and even if he had water I doubt it'd be enough for him to zoom up there. The Airships can go waaay high, and the thing is, it would take ALOT of focus to strike metal when you're being bombarded by bombs and fireblasts.
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