kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 22, 2008 23:41:35 GMT -5
O___O ZOMG U TRAITER!!!!!!!!
but when it comes right down to it, the essence of the plotline is Good vs. Evil. Good eventually wins over evil. That IS the point. The way you get to the endgame is different, or more roundabout, or whatever, but when it comes right down to it, that's what you're reading.
It doesn't neccessarily make it a bad thing at all, but if the story would end with the bad guys winning, I think it would give an extreme lack of closure.
I mean, imagine if Avatar would end with Aang dying and Ozai winning, that would be "WTH?!" right there.
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Post by marvel26 on Mar 23, 2008 3:01:21 GMT -5
O___O ZOMG U TRAITER!!!!!!!! but when it comes right down to it, the essence of the plotline is Good vs. Evil. Good eventually wins over evil. That IS the point. The way you get to the endgame is different, or more roundabout, or whatever, but when it comes right down to it, that's what you're reading. It doesn't neccessarily make it a bad thing at all, but if the story would end with the bad guys winning, I think it would give an extreme lack of closure. I mean, imagine if Avatar would end with Aang dying and Ozai winning, that would be "WTH?!" right there. Traitor? Should I be banished? Correct. Good always wins. But that doesn't mean Good gets what it's due though. An example is Spider-Man. Yeah sure, he locks up the Vulture, Shocker or whoever else puts on a wacky costume and thinks he's King of New York. But at the end of the day, his personal life isn't any better for it. The recent new animated series: Spectacular Spider-Man shows this side of super-heroism very well. Just because you beat the villian doesn't mean you win in the end. Comics where the good guy wins and everyone has a grand day died out in the 60's and 70's. Readers wanted flawed Heroes. Not Mr Perfects like Superman. Example, The Comics Code Authority (now defunct) once refused to put their label of approval on a set of Spider-Man comics that dealt with a drug related story line. Marvel Comics went ahead anyway and readers loved it. It related to them. DC's Green Lantern tackled the topic of racism. Again, an issue prevalent back then. Aang is flawed...to me at least. Though I suppose what I see as his flaws, someone else sees as endearing. Problem is I do not find his flaws endearing or relatable. For Aang, the world is at war, people are suffering and he's doing what? Loop de loops on his glider? Fantasizing about his forever girl? "Oh he's just a kid, cut him some slack." No. Hell no. Yes, I understand he's got a lot of responsibilities. I know I can't expect a 12 year old to save the world but....Too bad, I have to. And to me? He's not saving the world for the world's sake...oh no...but I shan't say anymore. Right now I see 2 people who could knock some sense into him. Toph and Zuko. The latter has a stronger case as I'm sure he fully comprehends the urgency of it all. However he will get blocked at every turn by...well, you know who. Toph MIGHT get through to him, but I feel that she would also get dismissed by the unnamed one for simply siding with Zuko. Again, I shouldn't be comparing a show aimed at the younger viewers to comics where the F bomb is dropped liberally. And of course Aang will win in the end. He has to. Like I said, it's a show aimed at the younger demographic there must be a happy ending. All I want to see now is what happens in the end and just how 'Happy' the end is. But if Ozai does win, let me be the first to say. "YOU DA HOTMAN, OZAI!"
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Post by K9Thefirst1 on Mar 23, 2008 19:06:55 GMT -5
I agree marvel, Aang needs to look beyond the front of his nose more.
And if I may say, I think the Judgement Spirit already has a very strong opinion of Aang, and it's not a very good one.
Which would be cemented if he goes with Katara rather than Toph, who is-in my little world-the reincarnation of the Avatar Spirit's other half, so-to-speak.
Which brings an interesting-though admitedly dark-train of thought: Let's say Kataang happens, what if Katara were to die in an accedent after the series? Or in Childbirth? Or Aunt Wu's prophecy comes true and she dies an old woman? If Aang hasn't matured, he'll probably go nuts no matter how far in the future.
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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Mar 23, 2008 20:24:23 GMT -5
Wow, that topic oughta do the trick for a page or two.
^By then, he ought to be adult mature IMO. Well, in the old age/childbirth death part. ^_^;;; I don't think he'd go that nuts. I mean, sure he'd grieve but hopefully not going Avatar State or anything because those kinds of deaths are something no one can do anything about.
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 24, 2008 1:36:58 GMT -5
Nah, just a scar will do huh, I didn't know comics changed so drastically, but then again, I don't think I've ever picked up a comic book to read XD well, it may not be relatable to you, but for younger children (which is to whom the show is aimed at) they can relate to Aang on their level of understanding. If the show would've been put on Adult Swim, I would bet my bottom dollar Aang would be doing a bit more angsting then simply what we got in "The Awakening". and, lol, I think [one] of the lessons the show is trying to get across is "love conquers all" or something like that. like the HP books, love is greatest magic, etc. which is why he's so hung-over Katara. I don't see Toph getting a chance to knock some sense into him, since the show seems bent on giving us fluffy Kataang moments [ew]. they don't want the watchers to possibly mistake a cute Taang moment as a possible hint that Taang might be happening (oh, too bad, it's already too late for that). so Zuko probably has the best chance of them all. I don't see Katara getting in the way, because Aang and Zuko spend lots of time together training [cough] and she doesn't bug them there. K9, oooh, that's an interesting idea. I forsee Aang going into a black depression. Sinking into a deep, bottomless pit where the world swirls with darkness and unkind thoughts. Where whoever's gain is his loss. Where envy, hate, anger, and rage consume him until he can no longer stand to live in a world without his Katara. yay drama. though admittedly, he'll probably turn into Season 2 Zuko for a while, until someone manages to pull him out, and even then he'll probably never get over it. Taiyo, but what if it was something he COULD have avoided? Seriously, "If Only" is like, the question that can drive people to asylums. Imagine if Katara died because he was in the Avatar State, and she got hit by mistake? "If only I had mastered control of the AS" "If only I had seen her" "If only I hadn't triggered the AS at all" "If only I had been there for her" "If only I wasn't the Avatar" "If only I hadn't run away" "IF ONLY..." yeah, and especially if those questions chase each other around in circles, it's enough to drive anyone up the wall but you know, out of the entire gaang, I see only Toph sticking it through with Aang if he were ever to fall prey to such torement. Sokka a bit too, but Sokka still has his dad (+ Azula ) to move on with, so I can't see him staying beside Aang forever. Toph though, yeah, I can see her staying there through thick and thin, no matter what.
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Post by marvel26 on Mar 24, 2008 5:17:47 GMT -5
Nah, just a scar will do huh, I didn't know comics changed so drastically, but then again, I don't think I've ever picked up a comic book to read XD If I'd match Avatar characters to Marvel Comics characters, I'd find some parallels (Not complete likenesses, just a few traits here and there) Start Geek-ness. Zuko/The Ghost Rider (John Blaze incarnation) : Both are basically good men with good intentions but made a horrible mistake along the way. Blaze made a deal with the devil and Zuko made a deal with Azula. Not to far off if you think about it. Sokka/Spider-Man: Similarity in that both have experienced the loss of loved ones and that both use sarcasm and wit to hide their pain. Aang/The Human Torch (Johnny Storm): Both are mainly focused on having the time of their lives, not really caring about other things until the time comes. At which both would fight for what's right. Another fit for him would be Speedball a very happy fellow, most of the time. However the alias of Speedball is no longer in use as after the Stamford Incident, which caused the deaths of 60 people, including his team members, Speedball changed his name to Penance and now he wears an armoured suit with 60 spikes pointing inwards which cause him grevious pain. 12 of which are larger to represent the children who died. Toph: I can't think of any Marvel comic character that fits her but she would be most welcome with a group of super powered teenagers called The Runaways. Yes, you heard right. The kids basically find out that their parents are actually international criminals and super villians, thus decide to bring their folks to justice and of course...runaway. And they've been running from the law, villians, pretty much everyone ever since. Katara/Aunt May: Well, not really I'm just making fun of her motherly side. More like Susan Richards, the Invisible Woman. A strong modern woman with two kids of her own. Motherly and strong. End Geek-ness. I feel that the world doesn't work that way. Maybe that's why I can't get into Aang's character. He's going to win and be happy. There's no uncertainty there. I'm actually more concerned with Zuko's side of the story. @k9: What would Aang do if Katara passed on? Depends. If it happened right now, He'd crash and burn. The rest of the world will soon follow, but I doubt Zuko would let that happen. I don't mean that Zuko gives Aang a good talking to, I mean that Zuko takes matters into his own hands to deal with his father rather than let a catatonic Aang handle it. If not Zuko I'm sure someone else will. If he were older, he'd realise that Katara didn't love him any more than a brother and he'd be fine with that and would greive along with Sokka and the others like family. Unless Katara does love him more than that. Then I'd say he'd grieve but not go overboard as in BLOW UP THE WORLD. If he does then he really hasn't matured any. Rant and rave, anger and tears, he'd exhibit those, but blowing up the world? Nah. Would Toph be there for him? I dunno, is Suki around? You know what I mean. Sokka does not (Well to me at least) see Toph in that manner as of their current ages. Brother/Sister? Yes. Lover? Please no. Maybe in time, if there's no Suki around...then yes...sad as I am to admit...yes. If so, Aang's going to have to deal with it on his own. Or visit his predecessors for advice, something he doesn't seem to do much of currently. Mostly its them who contact him. If Aang was the cause of Katara's death, now or older, he'd lockdown. Totally. It wouldn't be a case of 'If Only'. It' be either him staring balnkly into space or him suffering delusions of her still being alive. Either outcome due to his inability to comprehend that HE was the cause of her death for after all he loves her dearly and would never hurt her right? Only evil people like the Fire Lord hurt others, right? He's the Avatar, he can't be evil right? And so on and so forth until someone decides to end his misery.
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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Mar 24, 2008 10:12:23 GMT -5
Aang being the guilt-ridden person he can be sometimes, that sounds like him to the T. I was just focusing on the last two parts of K9's question. ^_^;;; I definitely agree about Toph sticking with him if something were to happen. Except for maybe visiting her parents; she doesn't have any attachments that would make her leave Aang...or at least none that I can think of. Though, Marvel made a good point about it possibly being Sokka if he were to eventually see her in a romantic light. Hehe, so true. The damage was done on May 2006 XD Ow, that reminds me of this one fanfic where Aang killed himself because he couldn't cope about Katara and Sokka's deaths. Dunno if that story's still on FF.net
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 24, 2008 17:48:21 GMT -5
Ahahahahaha! Karma right there! XD
and I like how Toph is such a unique character, you can't compare her to anyone ^^ I just wish they would develop her persona more in the show, instead of Ms. Pain-In-The-Neck.
well, no, not always. But usually when you have a support system, you can get through hard times much better than if you would go through it alone.
oh, fun fact:
did you know that a group of scientists in the early 1900's once did an experiement on babies. They gave 25 [abandoned] infants to get taken care of by one nurse -- they all started off as healthy [abandoned] new borns, and there were two groups.
Anyway, this experiment was called "Love Starvation". With one nurse taking care of 25 [abandoned] new borns, there wasn't much time for cuddling and cooing and kissing. Many of these children developed mental retardation, and mental disabilities. The rest who grew up and went into the big wide world had extremely difficult times establishing relationships, and trusting other people. Any of them who got married ended up in a divorce, and it was all because when they were infants, no one showed them any affection.
well, I don't doubt Zuko's going to end up being happy and married to Mai ^^ no uncertainty there either. The only question is if Katara will ever offer to heal his scar again. I'm really hoping she will, and he'll decline, saying that he wants the scar as a rememberance of what he went through, so he'll never forget what it was like to have nothing.
There's just something so off-putting about him getting his scar healed, that it would totally ruin my taste for the show.
noooooo! Sokka has Azula, did you forget? ;P
anyway, I suppose ANYTHING is possible, even Tokka [ewewewewewewew!!!!], but I don't think Sokka will ever see Toph in a romantic light, even if he were to lose Suki too. He's shown a preference for older girls, and I think he sees Toph more as the little sister he never wanted but got [ooh, kind of like Katara! j/k].
besides, Tokka would just creep me out, and on an emotional level, I don't think Toph's ready for a relationship. It probably just excites her cause Sokka's an older guy, and he's the first guy [not boy] she's had contact with in twelve years who's within her age range (sort of). and it's her first crush. It'll fizzle out, I'm sure.
was it well-written, or the kind that made you go "this could've been really good, but it's really bad" ?
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
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Posts: 1,280
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Post by Maylene on Mar 24, 2008 19:31:46 GMT -5
Tokka is weird for me too Kaibasgirl. ^_^ At least for now, since I find it very disturbing to have someone twelve and fifteen together. Maybe when they're older--but then that would be pathetic to have 2nd main characters of the original Gaang to get together after Kataang. What makes me sad is that Tokka has more of a chance than Sokkla. In The Painted Lady, she mostly clung to Sokka instead of Aang; in The Runaway she was mostly with Sokka than Aang, and even had a deep meaningful conversation with him.
Taang S3: Holding hands (ep 306) One time of Toph holding onto Aang
Tokka S3: Loads of clinging A bracelet being given "What would we do without you?" quote from Sokka Deep conversation
O.K sorry don't mean to depress anyone, change of subject:
Outta curiousity, if Aang and Toph were to marry, which characters do you think will oppose? Aside from Toph's parents that is. I know Meng loves Aang (or extremely fond of him) but do you think she would really do that?
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 24, 2008 20:11:24 GMT -5
but it's the rarity of those moments that makes them so special! ¢¾ besides, we know it's mostly one-sided. Sokka has Azula Suki, and we know he's dedicated to her loads. also, we're more creative ^^ we get so little Taang moments, that we make the best use out of them with icons hm...I can't see anyone really objecting. I can see Sokka teasing Aang, or saying that he's crazy because he's in-love with Toph and she's going to hurt him, but Aang doesn't really have any jealous girlfriends to be wary of XD except maybe Katara, but that's another story. omg, GAIS!!! You MUST check out this AMV! EncoreIt is AMAZING!
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Post by marvel26 on Mar 24, 2008 20:43:34 GMT -5
Tokka is weird for me too Kaibasgirl. ^_^ At least for now, since I find it very disturbing to have someone twelve and fifteen together. Maybe when they're older--but then that would be pathetic to have 2nd main characters of the original Gaang to get together after Kataang. What makes me sad is that Tokka has more of a chance than Sokkla. In The Painted Lady, she mostly clung to Sokka instead of Aang; in The Runaway she was mostly with Sokka than Aang, and even had a deep meaningful conversation with him. Taang S3: Holding hands (ep 306) One time of Toph holding onto Aang Tokka S3: Loads of clinging A bracelet being given "What would we do without you?" quote from Sokka Deep conversation O.K sorry don't mean to depress anyone, change of subject: Outta curiousity, if Aang and Toph were to marry, which characters do you think will oppose? Aside from Toph's parents that is. I know Meng loves Aang (or extremely fond of him) but do you think she would really do that? Here's my 2 cents worth on those moments. Taang S3 The hand holding: I cannot fathom what prompted Aang to do such a thing. And it's this spontaneity that makes the moment that much sweeter. He didn't have to hold her hand but he did. Tokka S3 The clinging: She likes him. We all see that. But we also see that he doesn't really care. He just lets her. Perhaps because he feels that since she's blind she needs someone to hold on to when not on the ground. Toph clearly enjoys the clinging. Meat Head just seems indifferent to it. The bracelet: Those of you with older siblings. Have they ever done something nice for you every once in a while? Case in point here. I admit it was sweet of him to think of her enough to give her the fragment but I don't see it as an engagement gift. The 'What would we do without you' comment: He makes a good point. What would they do without her? There's no hidden meaning to it. He's just saying, 'Thank Yue you're here to pull our rears out of the fire." When you've got a valuable team member, you appreciate them. The deep conversation: I've said it before, though I loathed their 'Alone' time together for that scene, it would not have worked out if it wasn't Sokka. The subject was Katara. Who better to explain it than her own brother. You can't use Aang, he's too baised, you'd just end up killing Taang. Okay...who would object to their wedding? Obviously, Lao Bei Fong...initially. His opposition is trivial at best especially when the full weight of Aang's political support (The Earth King, The Water Tribe Chiefs, Whoever's running the Fire Nation) bears down on him. Also he'd come to realise that his daughter is one of the two people involved in the marriage and she'll never conform to his wishes. For Aang's side, I doubt Meng would be a problem. Even if she did stand up and object, Baldy'd most probably go, "I'm sorry...but...who the Hell are you? Do I know you?" One episode character, can't expect the MAIN character to remember do you? Katara might be a problem. We all saw how she reacted in The Headband and that's just Twinkles dancing with another girl. Her overprotectiveness may cause her to rant a little about how he's rushing into things and that he should re-consider. Personally, I think she'd display signs of 'Letting go' issues. She might not see Aang in a romantic light but she'll still say something against the marriage initially. She'd come over eventually when she's sorted out her issues. She's likes selfish girl with a doll, even though she doesn't play with it anymore she won't let anyone else have it. Something like that.
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 24, 2008 20:54:27 GMT -5
well, I think Katara actually does reciprocate Aang's feelings of affection in a romantic light. So it wouldn't be so much 'letting go' symptoms as it would be 'jealous girlfriend' reactions. but then again, who cares? haha. oh, and I like your analyses of the Tokka moments marvel
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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Mar 24, 2008 21:16:18 GMT -5
^LOL. Agreed. I liked his analysis too. Much as I ship Tokka along with Taang, that summed it up nicely. And of course the Taang holding hands thing too. <33 Well, it wasn't really bad and I thought how Aang described what he was feeling and what Toph said was in character. It's just him jumping off a cliff disturbed me. :/ And that was an awesome vid.
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
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Posts: 1,280
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Post by Maylene on Mar 24, 2008 21:43:45 GMT -5
Yes Marvel did wonderfully with the Tokka analysis. I'm sorry to have brought up that Sokka and Toph conversation in The Runaway, I didn't think someone would hate so much.
True true. I was very touch that one time when my brother actually gave me a card for my birthday.
Kaibasgirl: ZOMG that was one wicked video! I never like videos that have them talking because I think that ruins the song/moment but that was spectacular!
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Mar 24, 2008 22:28:49 GMT -5
I know, I keep watching that vid over and over again! It's so inspiring! ^^ I especially loved that moment where Zuko's about to attack, and Katara's whispering "No". That was like, heart-stopping!
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