tg
FN Toph
The mysterious lurker of Musogato
Posts: 1,684
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Post by tg on Apr 27, 2008 21:31:34 GMT -5
As a non-shipper, I follow the story as to how it flows and try not to "jump ahead" into any shipping. I only ship certain pairings that do have a clear path as to being together. It's easier to tell who's going to be with who in the very first volume of a manga story more so than Avatar. I see M&B being very tricky in their words concerning the shipping issue. When I read this interview months ago, I instantly thought they had Kataang as their focus relationship for Aang. however, that is clearly refuted by this interview. Bryan Konietzko:" I think it's important to note one thing I have heard from the internet is that some fans have the idea we've put shipping into the show because they've asked for it...requested it. This is totally not the case. Mike and I like to do melodrama stuff and we wanted that in there. Not that it's all cheesy, but we wanted that from the get-go. Five years ago when we were developing this. Mike DiMartino adds: Yeah, Aang-Katara, that romance. Some stuff developed along the way, and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show, but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start. And then, the recent interview came up which brought up fans "jumping" into a shipping that they appreciate is popular, but isn't in their planning at all. So, that's how I read it. O.o
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Apr 27, 2008 21:43:13 GMT -5
MDD: Yeah, Aang-Katara, that romance. Some stuff developed along the way, and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show, but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start.
DIMARTINO: And I never would have thought that the potential Katara/Zuko romance was going to be so ... you know, so big for people? Because honestly, that wasn't our intention from the start.
When you put these previously mentioned quotes side by side, I think it’s obvious that Mike and Bryan are very clear on shipping. You can debate it all you want but they say it right here: one ship they’ve been planning from the start and the other they haven’t. Not to mention, Bryan has claimed Mai and Zuko are great together and Kataang has staff members (example: the sound guy) on the ship.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Apr 27, 2008 21:58:09 GMT -5
^You think it's obvious. But yet again, there is more than one way to interpret things. I can see how you get "Kataang was always meant to be canon and always will be" or whatever you people believe out of those two quotes (Though it really should be three. Some would call it propaganda when the statements that support Zutara are never posted. Talk about people seeing what they want to.).
But many shippers need to take some of good King Bumi's advice: You have to open your mind to the possibilities.
There are different ways to interpret things. No matter how much we argue, I will always believe these two interviews neither completely confirm nor deny any ships. And you will always believe Kataang is end-all.
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Post by mahatista on Apr 27, 2008 22:30:23 GMT -5
"I don't really agree with your assessment on the meaning of that quote" Hmm... I'm a bit confused. Which part of which quote? I don't think I said it negates Zutara, on the contrary. Just I think it says Zutara wasn't initially part of Cannon. It developed along the way. That's what I don't agree with. I think if Zutara is going to be canon then it was there from the start. A plan in place. Not obvious, but planned. But Zutarians 'jumped ahead' and saw the potential before the planned foreshadowing. Again, we read things differently. I wasn't saying you were negating Zutara. I was saying that we both read the quotes differently yet didn't come away from them with a negative view of canon Zutara. But if we were going to each quote looking for ways to refute Zutara we could mold them to do that. And it would be 'obvious'. To us at least.
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 27, 2008 22:32:21 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder if the romance/melodrama is mainly onesided, because in the end it all comes down to whose story it is, and it's Aang's story. No matter how much screentime every other character gets - which is quite lovely - it's all about him. I'm wishing that it'll be a tragic onesided romance, in which the protagonist doesn't get the girl of his/her dreams. The past three seasons I've never felt any...real passion or emotions that suggest Kataang. Maybe my view's prejudiced - I only came on board the ATLA ship after watching CoD - but I'd like a relationship to have something. I'm not sold on the childish crushes and the circumstances of the entire story. That said, a story is a fluid, living thing; it's always growing, changing, maturing. It's pretty hard for anyone to make an outline for a story and stick with it to the very end. A story I'm writing right now meant to be a plotless fic about everyday life but it evolved into some ginormous epic and it's still changing with every day I spend hammering it out to near perfectoin. I think Bryke's just trying to screw with us. If I could have things my way, the only ship that would happen would be Sukka, because unlike the other ships it's pretty dang solid...and canon,
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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 22:35:08 GMT -5
I bet those guys are soap fans and are laughing at the shippers who scramble to interpret their random interviews to suit their ship needs.
Where did they say they planned canon Kataang from the start? Just because they planned a crush doesn't mean they were going to follow through on it.
I am sure they think Mai and Zuko or perfect for each other. Just like they thought Sokka and Yue (that worked out great) was perfect for each and many other pairings that they have created. Those pairing or their babies.
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Post by textbender on Apr 27, 2008 22:37:33 GMT -5
I am pulling an all nighter doing work that I avoided all day... and rewarding myself occasionally with a revisit here...
Mahatista: I see! The "it" is the Zutara, not Kataang. I.e. Zutara was in the works from the beginning, but they were not planning to start the tension going until later? Grammatically, that makes sense. After all, it ends the sentence about Zutara. But it seemed like a punctuation problem to me, like their thought was not clearly phrased. Like there should have been a period and then "But it..." As it is written, it does seem it = Zutara.
I am going back to watch the scenes some people brought up about Kataang. It's true in the Headband, Katara looks much younger, like a potential partner for Aang (and I like him better with hair...) and their interaction is quite romantic there, not to mention her jealousy of his initial pairing... then her breathing at the end of the dance... the blushing... hm... I'll try to put myself in that mind mode. I want to be Cannon so bad... I don't want to miss the deep meaning... Maybe the creators really meant for Katara to get over her Aang = Momo phase. It's true that age difference disappears as people grow older. When Katara and Aang will be say 18 and 20, things will look much more possible. I felt so strongly pro Zutara to start with... and now I'm trying to "open my mind to the possibilities." I do agree the possibilities are more like Zutara (not seeing what they want you to see) but for me, it's seeing the opposite of what I see naturally...
Analeisa, I love your sig. The first kiss of that couple gave me the butterflies, as if I had a crush on their love. I have never felt like that about a romantic moment before, having a physical reaction to it. And I don't identify with the girl or feel attracted to the guy! They are just so great together. But that's off topic with Avatar...
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Post by psylum on Apr 27, 2008 23:47:14 GMT -5
Then there's this blurb from Hotspur on ASN. (A Mod who went to SDCC 07...and she ships Toko ) forums.avatarspirit.net/index.php?topic=91.msg469793#msg469793So Bryan Koinetzko likes Mai, and thinks Mai and Zuko are great together? Kataang was a part of the show from the very begining(and very obviously hasn't changed. Meanwhile Zuko and Katara shippers are told that they really need to look out for a Momo and Appa Romance(season 1 DVD), and in the latest interview Bryan Gives the statement "But whatever, people see what they want to see"....I am sensing a pattern here.
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 27, 2008 23:55:40 GMT -5
The more I read about their interviews, the more I get the feeling that they're very dismissive of the people who ship Zuko/Katara. I...have no idea what to make of it. I mean, it's their show but it's like they just want the fans to stop asking them about Zutara, to stop thinking it'll happen.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong myself, but I'm not very happy with my current perception of these interviews.
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Post by Amira on Apr 28, 2008 0:01:38 GMT -5
The Toonzone interview if I am not mistaken took place pretty much after the NYCC panel. They had to notice the excitement of Zutara fans at the panel. And they've commented on that excitement a couple of times like on the DVD commentary.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 0:08:06 GMT -5
wait... what? that seems a little too... direct.
could we please see it in context? is it on youtube, or do you have an excerpt?
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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 0:19:21 GMT -5
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 0:39:05 GMT -5
... wow, M&B sure weren't as tactful back in S1.
At least now they know how serious/"tenacious"/"passionate" the fandom is now...
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 1:28:12 GMT -5
That thing Bryan said in private about Katara and Aang being great together is the most clear thing I have heard from them yet.
I am beginning to realize that, especially since this is a kid show, the lesson for little girls can't be go for the bad guy, he might become good, but rather, choose the good guy who always liked you. And also, there may be only 2 years between Zukko and Katara, but Zukko has accumulated the guilt of an older adult. Katara is very innocent, like Aang. Their "sins" pale in comparison to Zukko's, no matter how good Zukko has become. I am beginning to see this show believes in first love. Each creator has his/her own philosophy. We can't apply Rowling to Avatar (not necessarily). There is an amount of innocence to that belief, but it probably goes well with Avatar. And Mai has now done something to deserve Zukko on a deeper level. And she did always have a crush on him. I don't think B&M would have her act so beautifully to save Zukko, have her love him since she was a kid, and then have Katara get Zukko because she is more... more what than Mai? More passionate? But Mai has just become passionate.
It's weird having to reason my way through this ship. But I see it more and more. I need to go back and watch some episodes and try to accept Kataang. It looks like it's going to happen...
I am sure the writers, at least I hope so, will make it believable in the end. They will probably have at least one intense Zutara moment (like the hug), but they will probably also show how they won't fit together, and that may trigger Katara's realization of where her feelings are. And it wouldn't hurt for Aang to show some jealousy of Zukko.
Oh, and now I understand the school time shipping episode. Zukko crying, "I didn't see that coming." That's really the Zutarians crying.
Break over, back to doing more midnight toiling.
EDIT: And perhaps I saw Katara as Aang's mother because she was acting that way, because she had had to grow up too quickly in order to replace her mother. But Aang reminds her in the very first episode that she, too, is "still a kid." Zukko, however, is by no means still a kid. Maybe the powerful bender thing is important, too. Katara wants that for some reason. She is very powerful herself. Perhaps the reason he has so many amazing bending powers is so that she becomes almost as powerful as the Avatar, somewhat of an equal for him. Athough Toph is pretty impressive, too. Will Toph pair with anyone, I wonder?
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tg
FN Toph
The mysterious lurker of Musogato
Posts: 1,684
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Post by tg on Apr 28, 2008 1:34:47 GMT -5
Yep yep. Finally, some people are getting it. ^_^ Save the plotline of the girl falls for the "change of heart" boy in a shoujo manga story (ala Cardcaptor Sakura for example or even the movie, Anastasia). I just can't see Avatar falling into that same category. It definitely falls on the first love kind of thing.
And textbender, I assume you prefer to spell Zuko's name with a double "k", right? ^_^ Just wondering.
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