Theory on Dubbing

[Horyo]

Note: This, I believe, does not belong in the CT board.

Hello, I'd like to introduce to you all my theory about dubbing in foreign countries.

I believe that shows from Japan that come to America have fine voice actors. It's the people who have heard the Japanese voicing expecting to hear the same, if not exact, voicing when Americanized, otherwise their pecertion of the character will be skewed and as a mechanism of defense, they blame it on the voice actor,

My examples involve Avatar and my past experiences. Because Avatar is an American production, many who hear the voices of the character are fine-and-dandy with it, because there have been no Japanese versions. Conversely, if Avatar were Japanese sent America, and with the same voice actors we have, the fanbase would launch a huge negative reaction to it.

My past experiences with anime have been their dubbing. I listened to the Naruto/Bleach Dub before I got to hear the Japanese ones, and to be quite honest, the English version isn't so bad. This was because I had seen the english before the Japanese (since I primarily read.)

My theory is irrefutable because of the reasons listed:

-it was founded by me.
-my personal experiences can be concluded as fact.
-This theory is great.
-if you don't believe it, you're just rejecting it because of how right I am.

Soruces
Horyo, 2008. Shmushyo Productions.

[Tungsten]

I have to agree (I've been theorizing the samething myself) but I also want to add that I think that a lot of it has to do with people can't really tell the acting ability of a Japanese voice actor so instead they supplament a lot of the acting in their head. There mind they have a certain idea of the performance and the lines. The people who watch the sub beforehand already have an idea of all the lines coming from the show they watch as well as preformed idea of how it is suppose to be acted. Since the dubbing will naturally deviate from the idealistic picture you have in your head.

Personally I don't know why people give such a hard time on dubs, most are not bad. Also I think this belongs more in the Anime section then here so I'm going to move it.

[attonbitus]

Definitely hearing one voice characterization over another does play a significant factor, but I don't think it's the end all be all.

The only reference I have is the anime that not many have watched, Dai Guard. it's one of my favorite anime and is one of the rarest pieces where the english dub is superior to the original japanese one. This has to do more with localizations and jokes. Most jokes in anime are sight gags and are easily understood when translated. Dai Guard had office work based jokes which don't really translate well when just read.

It's also dependent on the characters themselves. Anime characters tend to be larger than life or "unique" from a "american" perspective. So in part we expect the guy with the crazy blue hair and giant sword to sound over the top.

In Dai Guard the characters are office workers that are "the most average office workers" out there. When they're in the office they don't use the over the top voices (well at the least the main pilot) so when they go out to fight in their giant robot, the voice change is kinda jarring. In the english dub the voice match up better with the subtle cutting humor of office puns but go into a more serious manly tone when giant robot fighting.


But like I said, not many people have heard of Dai Guard let alone watched it. Also being in the giant robot show parody hurt it's popularity too. It's not for everyone, but giant mecha fans would probably get a good feeling from it.

[username]

America realizes that boys can play boys. Therefore we win.

[Victim ~*of *~Circumstances]

I second this theory half-way. Only because the first time I watched anime there was no subtitles and it wasn't such a big thing when I was a kid. I treated anime the same way I did Looney Toons, as in they were both the same thing to me: cartoons.

But I do believe it's true that whichever you hear first you tend to like more. Take Pokemon for example, I heard the English version first until my classmate told me about the Jap version on Thursday at 7 P.M. I liked Ash better in his English voice then the Jap version but liked Misty better in her Jap voice then her English one.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it depends if the person has the "Anime is superior just because it's in another language" mentality or not. As much as some of the die hard Otaku's believe not every anime is awesome.

[CountessRachel]

I disagree with certain parts of this theory...only because my theory is slightly more awesome.

For example, some animes, especially older ones, were originally thought to be made into kids' shows--thereby undermining the entire value of the American product. I started off with the DBZ dub, and loved it...until I watched the DBZ subbed. At first, it was such a shock because there was less screaming, grunting, and terrible puns. But after watching more and more subbed episodes, I found the DBZ dub to be next to unbearable.

And the exact opposite with Cowboy Bebop. I love the dubbed much, much better than the subbed. The voices match the personalities dead on in the English sub as opposed to the Japanese. Same with the FAKE OVA, and Full Metal Panic!. (Two out of three I had seen the Japanese sub prior to the English dub).

And then, some animes suck altogether compared to their respective mangas and voices only help to ruin the story.



So yes, while I do believe most people prefer whatever version they see first. Some shows are just plain better in one form as opposed to the other based on other factors.

[spiritmage234]

I also don't see why people make such a big deal about dubs, for as long as I enjoy the plot line of the series, it matter not to me!

But yeah. I watched the Japanese dub of the Rurouni Kenshin series, as well as the English dubs. With the English dubs though, they used a different set of voice actors for the TV Series and the OVAs and Motion picture. I watched the English dub of the TV series first, and when I watched the OVAS and motion picture, I'll admit: it was different and I didn't really like it. But after I watched the OVAs in particular for a bit, and I got the whole atmosphere of the OVAs, I was actually glad that they changed the voice actors. They fit the characters feelings a lot more than the usual cheery voiced actors from the TV series. I had mixed feelings for the motion picture, since they used the same animation style for it and the TV series. All I can say is that I think some of the voices from the OVA cast suited the TV characters and some of the voices from the TV series cast suited the TV characters more. But that's not to say that the TV voice actors were crappy: I think they all did a fine job.

That just leaves the comparison with English voices and the Japanese voices.

I didn't find a problem.

Shishio's voice in the English and Japanese dubs were both equally sexy, sooooo....

If I were to complain about the whole dubbing deal, the only thing I would have a problem with is not the actual voice change, but the DIALOGUE change. Like adding little catchphrases that never existed in the orignal story line or changing them (Like how they changed "oro?" to "huh?" in RK. I didn't make a big deal of it.... But I liked the classic "oro" a lot more. ;_;). 4Kids is a major offender and that is why I resent them with a passion. And I know they change the dialogue - and even some entire scenes - just so they could make the show more suitable for kids. The problem is, you can't make a show that was orignally aimed at preteens and teenagers acceptable for kids without butchering the original story line (Have you seen One Piece, both the original and the 4Kids version? Don't even pay attention to the voice actors! Just listen to the dialogue and look at the scenes!).

Okay that's an entirely different subject that I won't get into right, but the main point is, most English dubs aren't bad. But when I do come across a dubbed voice that irks me in the slightest, I don't just think, "The English voice sucks! The Japanese is much better!" If the thought crosses my mind, I just believe that even if this voice actor didn't suit the character, another English voice actor could have. You don't have to neccesarily watch the Japanese and English versions to reach that conclusion.

(Heck. There are some Japanese voice actors that I didn't think suited some characters.)

[Paraiba Ocean]

I'm not going to lie--there are some voices I don't like in both Japanese and English versions.

But really, the reason a lot of people claim to not like dubs is because they're "true fans"--which to me, makes no sense.

[raienbrasa]

I think "true fans" believe that the original Japanese voice acting is the way the actual creator himself wanted it to be, so when the English is too far off from that, they don't like it and they think it's not sticking to the creator's wishes.

Whatever @ that. *eyeroll*

Sometimes I like things better in one language than the other, but it changes. Naruto, which I saw in English first, I prefer in Japanese. I prefer Bleach, Death Note, and Code Geass in Japanese, and admittedly saw them in Japanese first...but the tones used in English differ from what I'm used to in Japanese. Samurai Champloo, which I watched through until the finale in English, I can accept in either language. So I dunno, it's kinda random.

[username]

All animation is dubbed. Anime is dubbed into Japanese, that dub just happens to have been made first. And the fact that the Japanese dub is in a language you don't know means it should not be the preferred way of viewing the anime. If you watch it in the Japanese dub, you aren't watching it the way it was intended to be viewed, which is a smooth blend of audio and visual entertainment. You're now throwing subtitles into the mix, which throws off the balance and intended presentation.

[spiritmage234]

Another thing I have with the dubbing issue is the credit given to American voice actors. Fans like to talk crap about the voices of some characters, but they're just doing their best/job. I was just watching the commentary on the English dub of "Buso Renkin", and what dubbing companies basically do is pick some good voice actors that seem to fit the role to them, call them up, and the voice actor just walks into the studio and starts talking. That's it. They don't look up the back story on the series and the character(s) they are playing, they don't even watch the anime in the O.J. (that's dubbing studio code for "Original Japanese") before hand. They watch the animation - and learn about it - as they work.

This is probably the same in Japan, though, they might actually work with the creator of the series to get more in tune with the character.

And, the voice actors for this series said that they do what they do for the fans of the series - the people who actually know about it. And all they get in return a lot of the time is crap like, "She doesn't fit the character! This voice actor sucks!"

After watching that commentary, I harbor even more respect for voice actors, even if at times I do find certain voice actors lacking.

[Horyo]

Thank you SM, that's pretty much why I tried thinking up a reason for this theory. I do agree with you guys in that some animes are better heard by a certain person. I don't "hate" American dub Sakura, but her tone isn't all that interesting to me, and that comes from having watched Naruto Dubbed first.

Ah well, it can always go under revision, thanks guys.