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Post by luthien on Aug 29, 2007 9:14:33 GMT -5
As long as you don't throw the dogs to Michael Vick!
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Post by Consonant*** on Aug 29, 2007 17:03:50 GMT -5
Though it pertains more to ethical circumstances than legal, Vick led a double life. And that in itself obliterates any moral fiber his character might have reflected. Yes, a big part of his fall from grace is the cruelty to animals and possible gambling, but another huge part is the fact that he pretended to be a decent person when he truly wasn't. Now that's not to say nobody has skeletons in their closet. But when it comes to being a star in a huge amount of limelight with a polished reputation, exposure simply doesn't sit well with the public. I love how a few dogs obliterates the millions he's put into the community. Actions speak louder than beliefs, or views.
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Post by Eman5805 on Sept 3, 2007 20:59:52 GMT -5
? Blowing this out of proportion?! Oh my, let me see... It's wrong Unethical Cruel and oh, I forgot ILLEGAL!!! There is no excuse on earth for that. NONE!!! Drunk driving is all of those things and more because it puts other people in danger. Yet, I don't see anyone protesting to Rodger Goodell on the hundreds of drunk drivers in the NFL. Vick is getting technically lynched for what he's done and in my opinion most of it is unjustified. Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah, it's illegal. But, seriously the way some people react it's like Vick was secretly running a child porn ring. I've even heard some people say what Vick has done is unforgivable(not here, other sites I frequent). And that is a bigger crime, but not in the court of law. It's the crime of hypocrisy. In a world that preaches second chances and a new life for those who desire and work for it, it sickens me that some people would deny Vick a second chance even if he apologizes and does his time. To the people who feel that way, let me say I pray you never do anything wrong in your life, and have someone unwilling to forgive and forget your actions...
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Post by CountessRachel on Sept 3, 2007 21:12:01 GMT -5
Though it pertains more to ethical circumstances than legal, Vick led a double life. And that in itself obliterates any moral fiber his character might have reflected. Yes, a big part of his fall from grace is the cruelty to animals and possible gambling, but another huge part is the fact that he pretended to be a decent person when he truly wasn't. Now that's not to say nobody has skeletons in their closet. But when it comes to being a star in a huge amount of limelight with a polished reputation, exposure simply doesn't sit well with the public. I love how a few dogs obliterates the millions he's put into the community. Actions speak louder than beliefs, or views. I agree with your actions speak louder than beliefs/views. Of course there's also the idea that if you leave a person unmonitored, their true colors come out. Vick's "actions," when left "unmonitored" (i.e. when he wasn't in the limelight being pressured by society to donate and be charitable) proved that deep down, he's not a good person.
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 3, 2007 22:12:49 GMT -5
I love how a few dogs obliterates the millions he's put into the community. Actions speak louder than beliefs, or views. I agree with your actions speak louder than beliefs/views. Of course there's also the idea that if you leave a person unmonitored, their true colors come out. Vick's "actions," when left "unmonitored" (i.e. when he wasn't in the limelight being pressured by society to donate and be charitable) proved that deep down, he's not a good person. Regardless of whether he's a good person, he's done more good than a lot of "good" people. That was the whole dang dilemma with Gollum in the Lord of the Rings.
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Post by CountessRachel on Sept 4, 2007 0:09:36 GMT -5
And he's still not exempt from the law. The legal system shouldn't overlook him elsewise it'll be pointless. Comparing him to "other" people or Gollum is irrelevant and won't help his case. Yes, he was a good QB; yes he did some good things, and for his success, I commend him. But he's still a mature, grown man, capable of making good and bad choices while being fully aware of the consequences. And while we are entitled to mistakes, we need to be responsible for our actions. Vick is no different.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Sept 4, 2007 11:06:38 GMT -5
i just want to point out that the cats are completly behind michael vick and whatever he does and they will give him there support. but beyond that, he does deserve e second chance everyone does (except for serial killers like that dude from virginia tech) nero is right.
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Post by CountessRachel on Sept 4, 2007 13:01:42 GMT -5
Uh, no. He deserves to be prosecuted and sent to jail, just like any normal person. Last time I checked, he's a human being and an American citizen--meaning the laws that applies to American citizens in this country also apply to him. It's bad enough all these celebrities get off scott-free as it is. If anything, if he wants to set a good example and try to salvage what little dignity he has left, he'll take responsibility for his actions and accept his punishment accordingly.
And if his friends squeal on him and reveal that he's lying about gambling or anything else, then he deserves to lose his contract--as the rules of the NFL state. It doesn't matter if you're Michael Vick or Michael Jordan. If you do wrong, be an adult and take responsibility.
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Post by Eman5805 on Sept 5, 2007 9:39:39 GMT -5
I don't think anyone said Vick should get off scott-free. I think they mean after he does his time, he deserves a second chance.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Sept 5, 2007 16:39:45 GMT -5
Uh, no. He deserves to be prosecuted and sent to jail, just like any normal person. Last time I checked, he's a human being and an American citizen--meaning the laws that applies to American citizens in this country also apply to him. It's bad enough all these celebrities get off scott-free as it is. If anything, if he wants to set a good example and try to salvage what little dignity he has left, he'll take responsibility for his actions and accept his punishment accordingly. And if his friends squeal on him and reveal that he's lying about gambling or anything else, then he deserves to lose his contract--as the rules of the NFL state. It doesn't matter if you're Michael Vick or Michael Jordan. If you do wrong, be an adult and take responsibility. true. but I agree with kraziebone. the cats will help hi mno matter what
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 7, 2007 23:27:28 GMT -5
And he's still not exempt from the law. The legal system shouldn't overlook him elsewise it'll be pointless. Comparing him to "other" people or Gollum is irrelevant and won't help his case. Yes, he was a good QB; yes he did some good things, and for his success, I commend him. But he's still a mature, grown man, capable of making good and bad choices while being fully aware of the consequences. And while we are entitled to mistakes, we need to be responsible for our actions. Vick is no different. I never said he shouldn't go to gaol, I'm saying he shouldn't have football cards chewed up and sold on Ebay.
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Post by Gran Gran on Sept 9, 2007 8:38:03 GMT -5
And he's still not exempt from the law. The legal system shouldn't overlook him elsewise it'll be pointless. Comparing him to "other" people or Gollum is irrelevant and won't help his case. Yes, he was a good QB; yes he did some good things, and for his success, I commend him. But he's still a mature, grown man, capable of making good and bad choices while being fully aware of the consequences. And while we are entitled to mistakes, we need to be responsible for our actions. Vick is no different. I never said he shouldn't go to gaol, I'm saying he shouldn't have football cards chewed up and sold on Ebay. You are right. He should be chewed up. And unless you are a Hollywood cutie, you get caught driving drunk they throw the book at you. But you know, drinking is not illegal. But the whole thing about dog fighting is, from the start, plus in many states owning and breeding these dogs is restricted/outlawed! Driving drunk is a laps of judgement, building a ring around illegal activities has a little more intend behind it. and frankly, it's that simple in the business world, you do something that violates your contract, you are out. You do something that damages the reputation of your employer, you are out and lucky you don't get suit for damages!!! But for all that think he needs to be let off easy because he can throw a ball (like that does anything in the grand scheme of things, nothing is being made, no person being fed, just grown men playing a ball game... how pathetic) my husband thinks that when everything is said and done he'll be playing for the Raiders (though I am not sure they have not outlived their outlaw reputation...)
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 9, 2007 9:58:33 GMT -5
But for all that think he needs to be let off easy because he can throw a ball (like that does anything in the grand scheme of things, nothing is being made, no person being fed, just grown men playing a ball game... how pathetic) my husband thinks that when everything is said and done he'll be playing for the Raiders (though I am not sure they have not outlived their outlaw reputation...) I don't give a dang a bout the football, I give a dang about how he's done infinitely more good for the community as a whole than half of the people who've never been to jail. Instead of worrying about a few dogs, how about we put more resources into unsolved murders?
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Post by Gran Gran on Sept 12, 2007 8:37:41 GMT -5
But for all that think he needs to be let off easy because he can throw a ball (like that does anything in the grand scheme of things, nothing is being made, no person being fed, just grown men playing a ball game... how pathetic) my husband thinks that when everything is said and done he'll be playing for the Raiders (though I am not sure they have not outlived their outlaw reputation...) I don't give a dang a bout the football, I give a dang about how he's done infinitely more good for the community as a whole than half of the people who've never been to jail. Instead of worrying about a few dogs, how about we put more resources into unsolved murders? Because it's a totally unrelated issue?! Al Capone did a lot for the community, too, should he have been let off? After all, it was just tax evasion.... Truth be known he did a lot less for the community than we are led to believe. And his little laps of judgement did a lot more damage than you like to see. The issue is so much bigger than the 'few dogs' he killed. it is the manner in which he engaged in illegal activities and it does not matter much which, and hangig and electrocuting the dogs? That is sick...like it or not, as a public figure you have an influence on society, and you have to model yourself accordingly. Unfortunately for Vick, his double life was uncovered. The mask of the benefactor was pulled off the ugly face of a thug who uses dogs to get his jollies...
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 12, 2007 18:29:59 GMT -5
I don't give a dang a bout the football, I give a dang about how he's done infinitely more good for the community as a whole than half of the people who've never been to jail. Instead of worrying about a few dogs, how about we put more resources into unsolved murders? Because it's a totally unrelated issue?! Al Capone did a lot for the community, too, should he have been let off? After all, it was just tax evasion.... Truth be known he did a lot less for the community than we are led to believe. And his little laps of judgement did a lot more damage than you like to see. The issue is so much bigger than the 'few dogs' he killed. it is the manner in which he engaged in illegal activities and it does not matter much which, and hangig and electrocuting the dogs? That is sick...like it or not, as a public figure you have an influence on society, and you have to model yourself accordingly. Unfortunately for Vick, his double life was uncovered. The mask of the benefactor was pulled off the ugly face of a thug who uses dogs to get his jollies... And HOW DOES THAT CHANGE ANYTHING? I don't give a dang what you do in your free time! If you're into BDSM or roleplay at home I'm not going to call you a rapist or an immoral monster. You still have yet to show me how this negatively affects humanity, anyway.
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