Lack of Awareness and civic accountability

[Gran Gran]

In a wave of nostalgia I pulled up a couple of videos from my youth, the hip and swinging 80s

And I realized I missed a lot of the general feel of the era.

It was a time when Green Peace made a difference and PETA wasn't full of nuts and terrorists.

We paid attention to how farm animals were raised and how much trash we produced. A wave of major recycling movements and trash avoidance started, as well as general environmental issues were being addressed.

Maybe it was a European thing, I am not sure, but these days I am regularly appalled at how small the conciouns for pollution is around here, I understand other areas are a little more advanced. But in general we are being sold 30+ year old technology as the newest bestest thing since sliced bread at astronomical inflated prices.

A German grocery store chain has just opened in my neighborhood, bring your own bags or pay for them.

Seems like my friends where a lot more interested in social issues and the political events. But we didn't have to deal with the perpetual mudslinging at campaign time, since the system works very differently, and it seems to me the resources are not squandered as badly as around here at election time.

We had a better grasp of the global situations, but I guess you have to if you live in the middle of it in a small country you can traverse from one end to the other in a day or less.


I might just see things through the rose colored glasses of Nostalgia...please discuss how people today are still concerned about the environment (even if PETA went overboard a long time ago), the foods we eat and the global situation as a whole, and not just the war, which is a different matter (or part of it, I don't know, back then the conflict would have spawned stronger reactions and less critique about those opposed)

here as reference one of the videos I watched:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxT21uFRwM

[avatarasabat]

I can sorta understand.

As someone who is pretty gung ho with diet, I am always at war with my fiancee about food choices. I prefer organics and I am conscious with what I eat.

[Gran Gran]

avatarasabat said:

I can sorta understand.

As someone who is pretty gung ho with diet, I am always at war with my fiancee about food choices. I prefer organics and I am conscious with what I eat.

Put more meat into the discussion

[Gandalan]

It's all about affordability anymore. I mean, I'm an athlete. I KNOW I don't eat how I should, but then, I can't afford to. I'm planning for my future right now, looking at my budget based on minimum wage through college, and I'm going to be living on Mac & Cheese and Ramen noodles for four years. No joke.

As for pollution: time constraints? Here in the midwest, we don't get roadside pickup. We either take it or dump it. It's easier to dump. I must say that I am extremely happy we found a place to go recycle everything at. We barely make one can a week as a family of four plus two dogs. That's pretty darn good.

As for world situation, it's become something like this from the perspective of most americans:

US=good and normal
South of us=cheap labor
North of us=draft dodgers, socialists, and other political evils
East of us=eurosnobs
West of us=overachievers

As bad as that sounds, that's what we equate everything to. We see things through a horridly biased media, and we don't get what's really happening. I mean, cmon- how long is Britney going to be headline national news? That's total BS. I don't CARE about her- what's the UN doing about Darfur? About the world economy? How are things in Israel? That's what I want to see, but I have to REALLY look to find it.

That's my view on what IS today. I obviously don't believe the generalizations above, although I'm certainly not socialistic. I do have to say, though- one of my best friends this year is an exchange student from Norway. He's a total socialist, and we LOVE to argue. We generally agree on civil liberties (except gun laws) and we violently disagree about economics. But, at the end of the day, we both love indie rock, soccer, and in general, a good time. So we get along.

I think soccer is the answer to world peace. XD Seriously. So long as somebody likes soccer, I can get along with them. I know that's stupid, but it's me I guess. ^^;

So... uh...don't yell at me? Please? ^^; That's just my take on how it is. Not how it ought to be, but that's it. I don't know what to do about it either. It's so darn ingrained in the country now. And it isn't even the direct fault of one person, political party, etc. So we can't just say, "Oh, undo that, and it's all beter..." It's a long term planning kind of problem. I'm not good with those.

[CountessRachel]

gandalan said:

It's all about affordability anymore. I mean, I'm an athlete. I KNOW I don't eat how I should, but then, I can't afford to. I'm planning for my future right now, looking at my budget based on minimum wage through college, and I'm going to be living on Mac & Cheese and Ramen noodles for four years. No joke.

As for pollution: time constraints? Here in the midwest, we don't get roadside pickup. We either take it or dump it. It's easier to dump. I must say that I am extremely happy we found a place to go recycle everything at. We barely make one can a week as a family of four plus two dogs. That's pretty darn good.

As for world situation, it's become something like this from the perspective of most americans:

US=good and normal
South of us=cheap labor
North of us=draft dodgers, socialists, and other political evils
East of us=eurosnobs
West of us=overachievers

As bad as that sounds, that's what we equate everything to. We see things through a horridly biased media, and we don't get what's really happening. I mean, cmon- how long is Britney going to be headline national news? That's total BS. I don't CARE about her- what's the UN doing about Darfur? About the world economy? How are things in Israel? That's what I want to see, but I have to REALLY look to find it.

That's my view on what IS today. I obviously don't believe the generalizations above, although I'm certainly not socialistic. I do have to say, though- one of my best friends this year is an exchange student from Norway. He's a total socialist, and we LOVE to argue. We generally agree on civil liberties (except gun laws) and we violently disagree about economics. But, at the end of the day, we both love indie rock, soccer, and in general, a good time. So we get along.

I think soccer is the answer to world peace. XD Seriously. So long as somebody likes soccer, I can get along with them. I know that's stupid, but it's me I guess. ^^;

So... uh...don't yell at me? Please? ^^; That's just my take on how it is. Not how it ought to be, but that's it. I don't know what to do about it either. It's so darn ingrained in the country now. And it isn't even the direct fault of one person, political party, etc. So we can't just say, "Oh, undo that, and it's all beter..." It's a long term planning kind of problem. I'm not good with those.

Indeed I must agree with you on those points.

I honestly think our (American society) is a bit two-faced when it comes to "weight loss." Half of the media says we should lose weight to be healthy...the other half says we should lose weight in order to fit a size 2. The truth is, like Gandalan said, it's too convenient to eat unhealthily. Fast food's cheap, its quick and it keeps us full long enough to get through the day--until we need to run through another drive through on the way home from work. It fits the perfect American lifestyle. If you do a little extra time and wallet budgeting though, there are ways to getting the right foods you need.

Global warming? I'm gonna be straight-up honest. I have rent, utilities, tuition, etc to worry about. If I had millions of dollars and lots of free time on my hands like Al Gore and Sheryl Crow then I could afford to save the planet. But the truth is, I don't have time to fret over polar ice caps, ocean levels and CO2 emissions. Sorry.

I can't really say there's a complete lack of social awareness and civic responsibility. There are still plenty of folks out there who are health and environment conscious...unfortunately, our economy is struggling so bad that we don't have room to think about much else except saving the house and putting something edible on the table.

[Gran Gran]

Interesting.

But I find basic things lacking that make it nearly impossible to be more responsible.

Recycling centers in my area are few and far between, unlike in Wa State, where some things are the norm to be picked up at the curb for reuse.

You really can't walk anywhere, because there are no side walks and you take your life into both hands riding a bike.

healthier foods, believe it or not become more cheap when the demand gets higher, but on the other hand regulations on small producers are horrendous, making it nearly impossible to buy directly from the farm.

There is little incentive to buy the smaller car that uses less gas...or to use the bus or other public transportation....or to plant something other then grass and water the side walk for hours....

[avatarasabat]

healthier foods, believe it or not become more cheap when the demand gets higher, but on the other hand regulations on small producers are horrendous, making it nearly impossible to buy directly from the farm.

What about CSA? Community Supported Agriculture? I don't have to go to large roadside stand for veggies. I can go to A) Clintonville community market for organic veggies and grains for me and my rats (yes I have supply my girls with veggies) B) The Clintonville Farmer's market OR the Mt Vernon one which is a ways away but I personally know the greenhouses and farmers there.

The first one is cheap I get bunch load of squash for like 5 bucks. The second one is a little more fun, but you know where and how the food is grown. When I was up in Avon Lake with my Aunt for my birthday months ago. We drove around when we got back to Bay Village where we stopped at a mall, there was large community market. It was a was fun looking at all the stands. I sampled some oraganic greens that was harvested only hours ago, fresh apples, heirloom tomatos. Best of all there was mushrooms. Oh my god! Best shitake I ever bought! *.* The people were informative, the told me how they grow them what kind of wood and harvesting.

Point is, I would love to see more people actively suppor CSAs and Farmer markets. Food is afforable. (I think a half pound was like 5 bucks for those shrooms) And it would support the community.

Thats just my 2 copper peices

[mikael]

While I agree that society is certainly not doing as well as it could be... I'm going to disagree that anything should or even could be done about it. At least in the United States, one of the things people are guaranteed is the right to do whatever they want to (Within certain reasonable limits, ie. don't kill people). If people want to not support farmers, then let them not support farmers. If people want to buy that Hummer H2, let them buy it.

What this debate actually focuses on from my point of view isn't the individual problems, but the cause. That cause is Western societal norms. Having more and bigger things is a status symbol. If you have more you can afford to not go to farmer's markets or get that gas-effecient car. What you're suggesting here is really tackling an entire culture, and I don't see how that's viable.

[Zukosfire5]

Sure, i would love to plant more trees and green plants to make up for the trees cut down during construction. But but watering it is not exactly feasible right now considering Georgia is in a horrendous drought and Lake Lanier is about half its normal size.

And I'm a high school sophmore with two younger sisters, one stay at home mom and one working dad. I'd love to buy all those appliances that reduce your carbon footprint, but the appliances we have now work just fine, and those energy savers are just too expensive. And sure, I'd like to buy the small hybrid cars. But with all the carpooling my mom does, we need that big ol' Suburban. I honestly would ride my bike to school if I could, but my school is five miles away and most of the route is on extremely busy roads with no sidewalks and no parent in their right mind would let their kid ride a bike unsupervised down those roads.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, we should be doing more to help the environment right now. But for regular Joe Schmo, it's simply not feasible to do some of the stuff we are urged to do. Sometimes we can only do the small things (replacing lightbulbs with energy saving ones, taking shorter showers, recycling, keeping our tires inflated) and it's next to impossible to do some of the bigger things.

And if it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses, please know that's not my intent.

[Gandalan]

Why tackle it? Just go buy some cheap land, become self subsistent, and get away from it all. My dream existence... *sigh* Never gonna happen.

[Gran Gran]

mikael said:

While I agree that society is certainly not doing as well as it could be... I'm going to disagree that anything should or even could be done about it. At least in the United States, one of the things people are guaranteed is the right to do whatever they want to (Within certain reasonable limits, ie. don't kill people). If people want to not support farmers, then let them not support farmers. If people want to buy that Hummer H2, let them buy it.

What this debate actually focuses on from my point of view isn't the individual problems, but the cause. That cause is Western societal norms. Having more and bigger things is a status symbol. If you have more you can afford to not go to farmer's markets or get that gas-effecient car. What you're suggesting here is really tackling an entire culture, and I don't see how that's viable.

Well, yeah, you can't change the whole system over night. but the demand dictates supply. If more people ask for healthier foods, eventually the market will provide it, and as more is demanded the prices will come down.

But there are many things one can do, though they are inconvinient, but feasable, even on a restricted income. I am not saying I am doing these right now, but I am aware that I should:

if you don't life in an appartment (but even then, but more later) you can reduce the amount of trash a little by making compost from your organic wastes. Coffee grounds, tea bags, eggshells, veggy peelings etc, and use it in the garden - even lawn likes that stuff. If you are in an apartment, you can still have a small worm bin and do it on a small scale, potted plants will thank you.

Find a recycling place and sort garbage...I know where one is, so far I am a bit lazy - I admit to it. But it's a habit...can be trained. I gringe every time I throw a hand full of batteries in the trash...they need to be separated and recycled, because they are toxic in the land fill.

There should be better incentives for doing the right thing: Solar cells on the roof, especially in the summer they can lower the energy load of a community. Season tickets for public transportation...bike lanes (In most areas it is outright dangerous to ride a bike!) or to make it social desirable to line dry your clothes.

or reuse shopping bags - use cloth ones whenever possible...reduce trash, even better then recycling.

There are no reasons for anybody to get a cleaner car, the old ones are cheaper. In other countries gas is taxed into oblivion and the money is poured into buses and trains. here only the oil companies get a fat check from the raising prices...

This is what you might call a grass roots thing. because it has to start from the bottom. you don't have to live on your own parcel and be self sufficient. That is a heck of a lot of work, and not really feasable. In the olden days they had a lot of people working on the same goal....(like Monticello and Mt Vernon ) The problem is, we all go about our business 'if they stop, I will' or 'this is too big, what can I do' while it would help a lot if everybody did the little things that are within reach and relatively easy and painless.

If you can't plant a lot of trees, plant one - or support somebody who can in doing so. It does not have to be a tree, if you live in the city, maybe a window box, it helps.