attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Feb 13, 2008 13:42:07 GMT -5
I think corporal punishment needs to have a come back. I know people have said that it doesn't really do much for older kids, but I feel that without the threat of it that little kids (elementary) tend to be very unruly. Of course parents could sign a waiver to opt out of it. Well attonbitus, I'll have to disagree with you on this. While I agree that corporal punishment should make a comeback for certain circumstances, this isn't one of them. If you allowed the teachers that type of power, you would more than likely end up having some that enjoy it a bit too much, also, small children could become scarred for the rest of their lives simply because then they would learn to cower and cringe before any authority figure, which is a very bad thing in my opinion. Noone would ever have any individuality what so ever if they were all to scared to show the slightest bit of uniqueness. As for older children, such as teens, they would rebel against that type of behavior more than anything, thus making them more prone to violent outbursts. As for what you said about small children being unruly, that fault lies in the parenting of said child. I have two boys, ages 9 & 11, and they have always been very well behaved. Don't get me wrong, they're not complete angels, but isn't that simply part of being a child after all? While I completely agree that ultimately that kids will be be kids (and they should be) at the same time if they are lacking a good family upbringing they need some sort of structure to have them behave within the rules. I've read stories where elementary aged kids will cuss out the teacher even after being warned, given detention and so forth. It's obviously these forms of punishment were not enough to change the child's behavior. Of course it's obviously that the parents could care less in this situation. Now you did mention you were in favor of CP in certain situation, and I would be interested in what scenarios those could be.
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Post by spirityue on Feb 13, 2008 15:41:24 GMT -5
You do make some very valid points about how children behave these days, and you're right about the punishment that was given, wasn't enough for those individual situations. I still don't feel that a teacher giving them a good old fashion spanking would really do much either though. For some reason, which has eluded me thus far, to me it seems that lately, kids are just becoming more brazen by the second. In cases such as you've mentioned, I would personally reccomend some type of military school setting or a brat camp. Those tend to really rattle kids and are able, most of the time, to get to the root of the problem. As for my opinions on when and where corporal punishment should come into play, I definately think it should be used in law enforcement. Meaning, basically, if you've got the guts to murder someone, then you should be put to death. Pedophiles is another very good candidate for CP, males should be castrated, and females should be branded or something, as I cannot think of a truly equal punishment for them just yet. I also feel very strongly about people that hurt defenseless animals, I feel that these types of people should have some type of pain inflicted on them, and the type would depend on exactly what they've done. I suppose it would kind of be like "An eye for an eye" type of thing for me. Yes, I suppose some of my view points are a bit extreme, but I think certain situations call for extreme measures if in fact you wish to stop the bad actions of some people. Think about it for a second, if there was mandatory castration/whatever for female offenders punishment for being a pedophile, the rate of said offenders would drastically drop.
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Post by CountessRachel on Feb 14, 2008 0:05:56 GMT -5
Corporal punishment doesn't work in a lot of cases nowadays. Especially in inner city school kids who would most likely fight back (and often do). If anything, some of these spoiled, snot-nosed kids who don't get whipped at home cause their mommies and daddies are too spineless and cave in need some corporal punishment.
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
Tame the Flame
Posts: 946
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Post by Atmos on Feb 14, 2008 22:03:50 GMT -5
Not to mention the traffic jam in courthoses...lawyers would certainly benefit. Really, the first thing that comes to mind with corporal punishment by teachers is non-stop cases for sueing. (In a society where Tom&Jerry and Seasme Street are now rated mature, I really can't picture corporal punishment coming back anytime soon....practically speaking)
But yeah I too agree that the overall how many parents are slipping when it comes to raising their children. As our society shifts our lifestyles to focus more on work there's less time to focus on the kids...which is a bad thing. But I as I similarly mentioned in another semi-recent thread, school teachers are not substantial substitutes for parents, to say the least they're definitely not being paid enough to do so. Plus in my opinion I don't think teachers in general would appreciate the extra responsibilties on the job description. In any case potentially gives already-neglecting parents less motive to take an active role in their children's life, no?
If I was teacher, I much rather just send a kid to the principal's office then have to be expected to give 'em the belt. But that's just me. And though I don't vouch for the justice ideal of the Code of Hammurabi, I agree with spirityue bringing misbehaved kids to kid-boot-camp.
(OT - Countess, you seriously have no idea how long the quote of your avatar had me rattled trying to think we're I heard that before. Yeah...I just got it now >.>' )
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Post by spiritmage234 on Feb 15, 2008 4:21:56 GMT -5
Well, if we're talking about corporal punishment toward children... Hitting your kids nowadays seems really archaic for many people, but a think that it's because the media concentrates more on child abuse more than corporal punishment. There is a difference. I know that some states allow corporal punishment in schools, but kids today are unpredictable in schools. I mean, if the kid is going to cuss out the teacher at the sound of a pin drop, what do you think that kid is going to do if they whip out the belt? So in todays generation, I think corporal punishment is best left at home.
On the other hand.... Very ironic that I had to write an arguement paper on corporal punishment. I'll show you a rough draft.
I got a "B" on the final draft.
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Post by admirality on Feb 15, 2008 13:43:09 GMT -5
I think corporal punishment is a good thing "!!!!!
Kids who are smacked as children don't grow up all disrespectful.....
Its a part of discipline...... Like in the army ur made to do extra press ups etc if u don;t do things right this is a sort of coropral punishment,,,
And in the old days if u stole somming ur punishment fit ur crime,,,, u had ur hand cut off..... Those ppl did not steal again after that.... unlike today u get a fine or go to prison for a bit.... Big deal that doesn't teach a firm enough lesson.......
A lot of ppl just don't respond to namby pamby punishments u need to be harsh in order to create discipline....
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Post by aangxchild on Feb 15, 2008 15:24:55 GMT -5
My opinion. If the only way you can control your child is by hitting them, then I don't feel you're a good instructor. I hate all kinds of child abuse just because sometimes parents take it too far, and it could critically hurt someone. If you want to disciple a child, lock them in their room with nothing they can do. It's like prison, if you sit there for a long period of time, you go mentally crazy. I'm sure children wouldn't go mentally crazy, but just being a bored child is difficult enough.
Yes, lets cut off someone's hand and watch them die because they stole something, how smart, that's murder itself.
I guess I just all together hate any kind of stuff like that.
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Post by admirality on Feb 15, 2008 15:37:54 GMT -5
^ I was smacked when I was a kid and I would call it child abush.... Its just been put in your place.... Though I don't agree with smacking in public...... Shouting now shoutings good it terrifies more than smacking if done right.....
Ur not gonna die if u hav ur hand cut off.... they use a hot blade so it corterises the veins....
If ur gonna allow capital punishment which the USA does (and the UK only in the military) then I don't see why not to allow corporal punishment...... I think though that corporal punishment should be given with care it shouldn't be done for petty crimes and such.... The old boundarys where hands were cut off for stealing were a bit harsh but they did work u literally couldn't steal after having both hands cut off.....
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Post by avatarasabat on Feb 15, 2008 17:29:52 GMT -5
I have mix feelings about CP
I was spanked by my dad alot, mainly because did behaviors that he thinks were unacceptable. Turns out that most of them was because of my social disorder and not because I was being a brat. Also through the years I became afraid of my father. I cowered and clamed up when he talked to I avoided having converstations at the dinner table. But if I was in trouble I was horrified.
Don't get me wrong I love my dad, he's the only parent who gets me, he has a lot of guilt because of things he dids (mainly the divorce) but I had to work back everything to have the positive relationship I have now. Fearing your parents is not always beficial
However I do think a kid needs good smack once in while perferable when he's young older kids. it's stands in their minds...
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Post by nexus on Feb 17, 2008 12:42:24 GMT -5
CP didn't work in the past because it wasn't accompanied by anything else. Kids need to be instructed rather than needlessly hit over and over again. Though a bit of both could go a long way. Sending all badly-behaved kids to a military camp is quite difficult and hard to manage. Every kid behaves badly at times. It's part of growing up. And all this media hype about child abuse is quite irritating. You can be questioned by Child Services for hitting your kids. But I do agree parents sometimes smack their kids for bad reasons. They just do it out of anger, and think they are doing it to punish. As long as the parent is calm, and carrying out CP constructively, with a clear mind, then it's fine. If a parent just smacks their kid across the kid because they lose their temper, that is plain wrong (though it doesn't quite merit a lawsuit ) Basically, spontaneous CP is wrong. It's not thought out, and no, it's not intended to discipline the child: it's just the parent venting their anger. But if they think it out, and then instruct the child about what they did wrong and why it was wrong, then there is no problem. That's why CP would work in schools, but i doubt parents would agree. I'd be quite happy if CP was instated at my school. But a few canings isn't enough. Maybe 1 caning along with a punishment exercise. That would REALLY go a long way. The pupil would not only have a sore hand, but then they'd need to write loads of stuff using this sore hand *insert evil laugh*
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Post by CountessRachel on Feb 19, 2008 2:44:24 GMT -5
Honestly, I think ISS (In School Suspension) does more than Corporal Punishment in schools. Sitting in a room by yourself all school-day everyday for 3-5 days doing nothing but busy work makes for a pretty decent punishment.
CP used by parents in general, it's a little iffy. Like Bard mentioned earlier, it can be a very negative thing if not issued properly. But for young children, so long as the parent is punishing the child for a good reason and isn't excessive about it, then it works. And then, as the child gets older, revoking privileges works better. (Down side is, it often times teaches kids to be materialistic).
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Feb 22, 2008 14:11:18 GMT -5
All good and valid points by everyone. I know that CP doesn't really work on "adult" criminals, but what about juvenile crime?
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