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Post by writer on Mar 17, 2008 18:05:42 GMT -5
PRAISE JEEBUS! IT'S FRIGGIN' MIRCAL
(now everyone lol)
*pets the christo-sheep*
Moving on. I don't have much thought for miracles. Except humans are guillbile and superstious animals. We believe anything that we don't a expliantion for is result of a Deo
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ilovetaang03
Avatar Yangchen
Im a secret AGENT MAN. A SECRET AGENT MAN!!!! (though im a girl)
Posts: 1,522
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Post by ilovetaang03 on Mar 17, 2008 19:21:50 GMT -5
i am an atheist so here is my point of view on this topic. i do believe in miracles. i just don't believe they come from god or anything. i think miracles come from good people who are naturally kind hearted and be willing to help you or do something for you.
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Post by harmonyhorsegrl on Mar 17, 2008 23:48:33 GMT -5
PRAISE JEEBUS! IT'S FRIGGIN' MIRCAL (now everyone lol) *pets the christo-sheep* Moving on. I don't have much thought for miracles. Except humans are guillbile and superstious animals. We believe anything that we don't a expliantion for is result of a DeoHey! That was pretty freakin' awesome! How would YOU feel if it started raining in your room when it was 106 outside?! well, miracles can come from one of two people: God or Satan. Some phenomena are Satanic *chills*...and some are God-sent. Like, maybe it was Satan who made The Staue cry blood. (Whoa thats a scary thought) WEll, i suppose not all miracles are the result of a supreme being, but God does control the universe, so...maybe "miracle" is just a term that is thrwon around. Anyway, I 'm not trying to shove Jesus down your throat, but I'm sharing what I believe. If you still want ta know more, PM me.
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Post by writer on Mar 18, 2008 14:15:53 GMT -5
First off sheep, the waterline or spriklers must of went off. Since most of you where high on your own endorphins and hormons in a state of religious excasty. You deluded yourselves into thinking it was god.
As for the source of mircles. They are the result of natural or conquindental phenomenon. Deo or lucifier don't need flashy mircules to prove a point. Expecially the Morning Star, he could give to s*hits about humanity. God proven his point with his sacrifice of his avatar. So mircules today are nothing superstious delusions by the masses.
My teacher told me once that Miracles are sent by the Almighty for the non-believers. I believe miracles are nothing more that a falsity or an excuse for the gullible to dwell in.
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Post by harmonyhorsegrl on Mar 18, 2008 23:25:20 GMT -5
First off sheep, the waterline or spriklers must of went off. Since most of you where high on your own endorphins and hormons in a state of religious excasty. You deluded yourselves into thinking it was god. As for the source of mircles. They are the result of natural or conquindental phenomenon. Deo or lucifier don't need flashy mircules to prove a point. Expecially the Morning Star, he could give to s*hits about humanity. God proven his point with his sacrifice of his avatar. So mircules today are nothing superstious delusions by the masses. My teacher told me once that Miracles are sent by the Almighty for the non-believers. I believe miracles are nothing more that a falsity or an excuse for the gullible to dwell in. First, don't call me, "Sheep". Ever. Second, how could the sprinklers reach all the way up to the middle of 150 foot building roof? That would take a pretty freakin crappy sprnkler. I;m sorry you feel that loving my creator my makes me "delusional". God gives us signs that he still loves us. Example: When the Flood came, He made a rainbow after it rained as a sign, no, promise to his children that he would never flood the Earh and deystroyall of mankind ever again. Okay, I know what you're gonna say. "Rainbows are made by light hitting water vapor and they make the spectrum." WEll, that's true. But God made that so it hapend. I suppose it's just somehting you totally reject or turst our ever-loving, all-knowing God. And you're right, God and Satan don't need miracles to prove they're there. They don't have to prove anything. In fact, Satan would be right happy if you kept believeing that nether of them exist. But God knows His children. We are kinetic creatures (that is, we have convinced ourselves that seeing is believing). ...Heck, why do you think the Israelites had so much idolotry? They wanted to be able to see the God they worshipped...that's not how it works, I;m afraid. Sure, He gives us signs he loves us. But that's (miracles) not to prove how much more powerful He is than us, or porve that He's there.He wants us to accept Him...just because Eh doesn't want to tell you those horrible words during the Rapture: "Depart from me; I never knew you." God wants us to love Him! HE wants us to live with Him forever, in paradise. Third, Jesus was NOT an avatar. He was THE Son of God. No, God did not knock up some Nazerene, He...well, I suppose as mortals we cannot wrap our minds around, so we suppose it's not true. (*buzzer* NOPE! Some things are incomprehensible...like the expansion of the Universe) Jesus was born of a Virgin. Virgin Mary (i aint Catholic). She was a virgin. VIRGIN. oh, btw, JESUS WAS NOT MARRIED. HE WAS A VIRGIN ALL HIS LIFE. PERIOD.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Mar 19, 2008 11:11:28 GMT -5
This my friends, concludes an episode of unintelligent arguing between Bard Child and harmonyhorsegirl.
This was very unnecessary historyman. Don't make posts like this in CT again.
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Post by Blind Bandit on Mar 19, 2008 11:33:50 GMT -5
Thats enough, if your going to debate do so respectfully. We all have different opnions, prospectives and backgrounds so remember that.
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Post by Holierthanthou on Mar 19, 2008 16:44:01 GMT -5
First off sheep, the waterline or spriklers must of went off. Since most of you where high on your own endorphins and hormons in a state of religious excasty. You deluded yourselves into thinking it was god. As for the source of mircles. They are the result of natural or conquindental phenomenon. Deo or lucifier don't need flashy mircules to prove a point. Expecially the Morning Star, he could give to s*hits about humanity. God proven his point with his sacrifice of his avatar. So mircules today are nothing superstious delusions by the masses. My teacher told me once that Miracles are sent by the Almighty for the non-believers. I believe miracles are nothing more that a falsity or an excuse for the gullible to dwell in. Third, Jesus was NOT an avatar. He was THE Son of God. No, God did not knock up some Nazerene, He...well, I suppose as mortals we cannot wrap our minds around, so we suppose it's not true. (*buzzer* NOPE! Some things are incomprehensible...like the expansion of the Universe) Jesus was born of a Virgin. Virgin Mary (i aint Catholic). She was a virgin. VIRGIN. I don't think you quite understand what an avatar is. It is simply the earthly incarnation of a god in a religion. That definition actually fits Jesus quite well, and doesn't imply he was conceived through God "knocking up some Nazarene". Actually, if you think about it, the title Son of God implies that more than the word "avatar", as to be someone's son typically implies they have a mother. Just clarifiying that. I do believe in miracles by the way, biblical ones and some modern ones. I believe God does still perform miracles, but honestly I don't think He has much purpose to make a statue cry blood. The whole thing about the sun would be believable, as the Bible says God once made the Sun appear to completely stop moving in the sky for a length of time, but I'm skeptical about the instance mentioned above. I believe the word miracle is tossed around a lot in society. I do believe that God gives people the strength to make their own miracles in their own lives, but that's not really a miracle, the actual definition of a miracle being when a when a deity or prophet performs an action that defies natural laws or explanation. So the Parting of the Red Sea, yeah, that's one. Sodom and Gomorrah? It might have been a volcano, but definitely God-influenced. The Resurrection? Oh yes. Mary, mother of God appearing on a grilled cheese sandwich? Probably not.
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Post by spirityue on Mar 20, 2008 14:51:37 GMT -5
As for me, I suppose I would be considered an agnostic, as I don't know which theories are true and and which are not. I don't really have much of a viewpoint on miracles as I personally have never witnessed one. I just felt rather compelled to add my two cents worth regarding the quote above, and that is simply this, You do know that the bible was written by mere mortals right? So, who's to say that it's not simply a fabrication of a few people who had a grand scheme of enforcing their beliefs or their will on the masses? Oh, and btw, yes, I have read the entire thing, twice actually, and I still think that it could be merely a propaganda trick.
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Mar 21, 2008 2:07:10 GMT -5
Alrighty then, as an agnostic here's my two cents as well. Miracles in my opinion may or may not be true. First of all I have no clue if there is or isn't a God seeing as I've never talked to or seen him so I AM NOT ruling out the possibility. However let us look at the facts. As humans more often then not we believe what we have been taught.
The "miracle" of the sun dancing is rather new to me as I've only heard part of the story of the Fatima Children. Now then, seeing as the people I'm sure were taught to be devout to their beliefs I think it was a mass hallucination. Why?
According to Wikipedia-
"The Miracle of the Sun is an alleged miraculous event that was witnessed by as many as 100,000 people on 13 October 1917 in the Cova da Iria fields near Fátima, Portugal. Those in attendance had assembled to observe what the Portuguese secular papers had been ridiculing for months as being the absurd claim of three shepherd children that a miracle was going to occur at high-noon in the Cova da Iria on October 13, 1917"
So if I am not correct this states that the papers have been against the idea for months as this happened in the early 1900's I don't think there was alot of entertainment for the masses at the time and so the educated most likely spent their time reading.The large amount of people I'm sure would've read this on going saga and had the idea of it planted into their minds for quite a while.
Now, also as mere mortals we have that certain something that almost all religion IN MY HONEST OPINION exploit. That would be :
Our need to know that we are not alone, that someone is actually there watching over us and making sure we don't do anything stupid. Or of course the fear of death. This fear makes us yearn and consequently believe of an afterlife because....well I'm sure nobody wants to die unless they're suicidal.
Back to the "miracle" at hand. By the time the event was to occur the people may have found the idea rather appealing and some or most may have wanted it to happen so the sun dancing happened. Whether it was sent by God or not and if it did really happen, that's your opinion but I still think it was a mass hallucination.
Now the crying statues I remember watching a movie about that as a little girl but till now I doubt it is true. I mean what purpose do crying statues serve? It's creepy....hardly something that would give extra religious vigor. I've always thought that it was just a trick, or like the sun dancing was a hallucination from fervent prayer because of a need for peace. If I'm not mistaken the time I kept hearing about it in the news as a kid was during Desert Shield or Desert Storm.
Raining in a church I agree is very cool but are you certain it wasn't just faulty sprinklers? With todays technology and common sense I'm quite certain the neighborhood repairman could set some sprinklers that high and then it might have caught the smoke from someones nearby BBQ or a kid was playing with matches inside and nobody noticed.
The Bible is something I would take with a grain of salt. It was written as spirityue stated by mere mortals. I highly doubt the whole "men inspired by the Holy Spirit" stuff because as most miracles and such of this genre it hasn't been proven yet
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Post by harmonyhorsegrl on Mar 22, 2008 13:24:07 GMT -5
Raining in a church I agree is very cool but are you certain it wasn't just faulty sprinklers? With todays technology and common sense I'm quite certain the neighborhood repairman could set some sprinklers that high and then it might have caught the smoke from someones nearby BBQ or a kid was playing with matches inside and nobody noticed. No, first of all, I don't think sucha tiny blaze could reach a sprinkler up that high. Second, alarms would've gone off. Third, they were sure of their findings before they spread the word. But I do appreciate having someone on here who totally doesn't reject the entire idea of God.
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o8jedi
Jet
Please, call me "o8"
Posts: 364
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Post by o8jedi on Mar 22, 2008 16:08:47 GMT -5
I don't reject the idea of divine intervention, I just don't want to rush to judgement.
Okay, so maybe the sprinklers didn't go off, but a pipe could have burst so that it leaked through the ceiling. In order to prove your hypothesis, you need to disprove that it isn't.
But this reminds me of a potentially miraculous phenomenon that I think is very relevant: Stigmata. Stigmata are markings or wounds that tend to appear on deeply religious people that mimic wounds or markings that a significant figure within the religion bore. In the Christian tradition (most notably Catholic), stigmata are manifested as the wounds Christ recieved while on the cross. Those who have stigmata will bleed from unexplained wounds on their hands and feet, but don't die from blood loss (probably because they often bandage their hands and feet). In some cases, they bleed from their foreheads, like the crown of thorns, or from their sides, from the spear wound. Other phenomenon associated with stigmata include a pleasant fragrance among them, despite the ever-present bleeding.
There is one hypothesis that may rationally explain stigmata. Psychologists speculate that the wounds are psychosomatic, or caused by the sheer power of the mind. It's similar to how one can worry themselves sick or cause themselves to vomit by thinking about a disgusting food. Christian stigmata, they say, are so prevalent in Catholocism because of the powerful and, in many ways, disturbing iconography that is present in many cathedrals. Several stained glass windows will depict Christ's last days and the intense suffering He went through. Then, there's the giant crucifix on the wall behind the altar, ever present and almost demanding the attention of the parishioners. Because of the great desire to be like Christ that many stigmatic followers have and the painful iconography that surrounds them, the mind begins to associate these wounds with being like Christ. Eventually, just because of the mind's power, blood vessels burst in strategic locations and blood begins to ooze from the skin. Stigmata. Due to the lack of olfactory sensory references, the smell may not be as overpowering as long-bleeding wounds normally have. This may or may not be the explanation, but it is a somewhat plausible one.
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Post by harmonyhorsegrl on Mar 22, 2008 17:38:26 GMT -5
I'm afraid have no opinion on stigmata. I've never heard of that before. IT could be God sent, mit could be Satna-intended. WE dont really know. And pretty sure we can't unlesss God tells us.
And as I've already said, THEY'RE POSITIVE. THE PIPES WEREN'T LEAKING. THE SPRINKLERS DIDN'T MALFUNCTION. i just don't understand why you must have an Earthly explanation!
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Post by CountessRachel on Mar 22, 2008 18:08:44 GMT -5
And as I've already said, THEY'RE POSITIVE. THE PIPES WEREN'T LEAKING. THE SPRINKLERS DIDN'T MALFUNCTION. i just don't understand why you must have an Earthly explanation! Hm, with that comment, I've gotta say this: Let's say you write an essay and turn it in for grading, get the paper back and receive an F. However, the paper has no corrections from the teacher, no comments, nothing. Just a big red F and you ask the teacher why? Would you really be satisfied with an answer like "You don't need an explanation,"? Or, "Powers beyond my control were at work,"? Granted it's only on a small scale, but same thing with miracles. Lots of people out there have to have logical, well-structured explanations. Not everyone is just going to accept things as they are and move on. If we did, society would still be in the Midieval Ages.
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Post by harmonyhorsegrl on Mar 22, 2008 18:20:29 GMT -5
Okay, perhaps I was just a bit annoyed that this question is asked over and over about the rain in the church, but that churuch checked throughly to make sure that their reputation was tainted by fasle cailms of supernatural powers inside. The problem or cause of the rain wasn't anyhting that they could find.
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