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Post by aangstheone on Dec 9, 2006 10:57:36 GMT -5
but we are the first step is to make a democracy for this country so we can see eye to eye in the same goverment
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Post by avatrshay on Dec 9, 2006 11:07:19 GMT -5
but we are the first step is to make a democracy for this country so we can see eye to eye in the same goverment Who sais we want a democracy?? What ever happened to a republic?? ((My social studies teacher has been making us watch news durring her classes....sooooooo boring.....))
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Bleda
Kyoshi Mai
Wise Kataang/Soph Elite
Time defies logic thus it cannot exist.
Posts: 2,362
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Post by Bleda on Dec 9, 2006 11:14:52 GMT -5
Now as Us resident or european residents That war really haven't affected you that much. ý live in turkey (a country that is located at the north of iraq and has a 200km border with it), it msotly affected countries here as the terrorist using iraq as a base and drug and weaponry trade lline market. I am not even talking about kurds trying to bouild their own countries by trying to invade (at least my country[turkey's] southern land, and iran's northern land).
BTW: no offence to us citizens buti believe US has atack iraq for petrol as they have never found the biological/nuclear/chemical weapons as iraq supposed to have which they showed as their reason for invasion.. (not protecting saddam he is one ........ (fill in the blank with any insult))
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Post by aangstheone on Dec 9, 2006 11:50:17 GMT -5
We are amking Iraq a democracy a first step for the U.S and Iraq to see eye to eye Thats what i mean...Even the free Masons who made the goverment of today said that democracy is the first step to freedom
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Post by avatrshay on Dec 9, 2006 11:53:07 GMT -5
We are amking Iraq a democracy a first step for the U.S and Iraq to see eye to eye Thats what i mean...Even the free Masons who made the goverment of today said that democracy is the first step to freedom Okay...Brain freeze there for a second, somehow I thought you were talking about the US. We are to much of a democracy as it is...Like I said: What ever happened to being a republic??
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Post by aangstheone on Dec 9, 2006 12:13:07 GMT -5
we are i have on question for you are you a democrat or republican? you dont have to answer
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Post by Karatelover on Dec 9, 2006 16:27:18 GMT -5
Thanks to us going into Iraq I feel ashamed to be American! I no longer feel pride in my country, I feel like I'm hated by other countries. I feel like we've done the wrong thing instead of the right thing. We've bought more suffering into the country, and we're not making it any easier for them if we stay there. I want the trops to come home now!
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Post by aangstheone on Dec 9, 2006 17:02:37 GMT -5
Have you ever seen the show my war diary? or OVER THERE
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Dec 11, 2006 18:33:15 GMT -5
karatelover: The Middle East extremists have ALWAYS hated each other, they've: kidnapped people in Iran, blown up the Cole, launched 2 attacks own WTCs, and screwed up Mogadishu and Somalia. Even if this war has made them hat5e us, your popularity with PEOPLE YOU'RE AT WAR WITH, tends to go down. Can you imagine, in WWII people saying "Oh, no! Germany, Italy, and Japan hate us! WAAAHHH!!!" Also, people, remember mind over matter, if we say we're getting our @$$es kicked than we'll lose strength and GET our @$$es kicked
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Post by demonofthewest on Dec 12, 2006 18:44:45 GMT -5
Right. If we just tell ourselves we're going to win, then of course we're going to win. The reason anyone ever lost any war is because they just didn't have the heart. Also, while we are at war with Iraq, we are not at war(officially)with many of their neighbors, and invading Iraq isn't sitting well with them. So your argument doesn't really hold. We can only fight for so long before our resources become depleted and we can't carry on the fight. Soldiers don't grow on trees, and unless more people join the Marines, they'll be having a very tough time. This leaves us with three options, A)Institute the draft, B)leave Iraq, C)stay as we are and hope for the best. I put blind faith into the American government once, I am not so inclined to do so again.
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Pico
Haru
Rawr.
Posts: 339
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Post by Pico on Dec 12, 2006 19:54:17 GMT -5
Oh god, not a draft...
I vote for withdrawing troops from Iraq, but not all at once. The war was a bad idea to begin with (Operation Iraqi Liberation, anyone?), and the handling of it was a total mess-- though thankfully, the majority of this country can see that now. One possibility that I've heard is pulling out some of our troops, in place of troops from the UN. Actually, any sort of pulling out of the country little by little would be a good idea. The war is eating up our resources like crazy, and the amount of money we spend on weapons compared with the amount we spend on healthcare or education is appalling. Hopefully with Rumsfeld gone we'll be seeing some changes. To be honest, I don't know that much about the new guy, but it seems like he's pretty dissatisfied with the way the war is going.
...Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan.
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jon
Katara
Posts: 86
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Post by jon on Dec 12, 2006 20:55:24 GMT -5
Just to clear things up...contrary to what alot of people here have said, the US is NOT a democracy, it's a republic (specifically a federal republic). Democracy is direct rule by the people with majority control, something our founders knew would be disastrous and severely oppressive to minorities. We live in a republic ("And to the republic for which we stand"), where democratically elected officials make decisions, in a democratic way. The people only vote on who's elected to represent them; and that wasn't even always true with Senators. The founders knew most people weren't nearly wise enough to decide policy, and it holds true to this day. Giving the people of Iraq control over policy would be downright catastrophic. We want a republic there as well.
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Post by CountessRachel on Dec 12, 2006 22:14:16 GMT -5
I say, give it 20 to 50 years, some one will come forth with the real story and write a book about it. The whole Watergate scandal took a good long while to become totally unveiled, and we're still trying to figure out Kennedy's assassination.
I believe the government hides important information for all sorts of reasons. This War in Iraq is no different. First they said Weapons, then they said "new government." Whatever, they're full of crap, whoever "they" are. The real reason we're over there, only the puppeteers pulling all the strings truly know, and it's different from what they've been telling us.
As far as establishing a democratic republic over there, people are looking for some sort of time table. That's just not going to be feasible. One, we base our government on separation of church and state (and we're STILL having problems with what is/isn't acceptable after 230 years -_-) You talk about establishing that kind of government in a land whose foundations have rested on religious doctrine for longer than America has been in existence. Flying in out of nowhere and telling them to completely nix their way of life...not too convenient I'm sure.
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Post by Kylie on Dec 18, 2006 15:34:53 GMT -5
While I'm going to decline saying anything either way about the war. And that this only because I've discussed it as nausem in my clases, papers, and will in my senior summary next semester. I've had enough.LOL
I will say, however, that from my POV a Political Science major, soon to be graduate...there are a lot of thing about war and the process of forming stablility after one that the average person doesn't know, there's a lot I still don't know, and I'm a semester from my BA. It's not, never has, been and never will be an easy or quick process. There are steps in a cycle that each country in a position that Iraq is in, take and they are staying on course. This isn't something new, and it won't be the last time it happens. Even the U.S. has gone through these motions, first with a revloution (the Iraq revloution was forced, yes I realize that), followed by an eventual Civil War, which cullminates in a near break down of the entire system. Ultimately giving way to some sort of stablitlity in it's wake.
What will that be for Iraq? I don't know. And I don't think we're supposed to know. Maybe Democracy will catch on, maybe it won't. For all we know, they could end up the next USSR and go full out Communist. But it's going to end up how it's supposed to, just as it has in countries precding it. If that means dividing it into three equal (yes, that is possible) parts and letting the Kurds, Shitis and Shuni's each governor their own state with in the border, then that's what it means.
I think it's time we stop trying to force a change now, and start working for a solid change in the near future.
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Post by Consonant*** on Dec 20, 2006 1:02:52 GMT -5
Right. If we just tell ourselves we're going to win, then of course we're going to win. The reason anyone ever lost any war is because they just didn't have the heart. Also, while we are at war with Iraq, we are not at war(officially)with many of their neighbors, and invading Iraq isn't sitting well with them. So your argument doesn't really hold. We can only fight for so long before our resources become depleted and we can't carry on the fight. Soldiers don't grow on trees, and unless more people join the Marines, they'll be having a very tough time. This leaves us with three options, A)Institute the draft, B)leave Iraq, C)stay as we are and hope for the best. I put blind faith into the American government once, I am not so inclined to do so again. You forgot D, make people realize that leaving would only hearten terrorists to attack us more, thusly increasing troop count.
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