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Post by mikael on Nov 15, 2006 20:50:03 GMT -5
It was NEVER the USA's job to babysit the world and fix all of its problems. Hell, even WE aren't perfect yet.
If 60-65% of Iraqis want us out, and most of OUR country wants us out, then why shouldn't we? Do you value America's image more than the life of your neighbor's son or daughter? Are you actually trying to justify a war that is killing our soldiers and wasting our resources?
I've seen Hotel Rwanda. It was a sad film. My reaction? Sad event. Horrible. But was it America's job to deal with it? No. I applaud us for not going in, and I appluad the Rwandans for fixing their own problem. I'm pretty sure the Iraqis can do the same.
And look at it this way; Why is bloodshed now and longer peace later such a bad alternative to our current route of attempting to force them into peace while failing to do so, promising even more blodhsed when we finally pull out, and keeping in mind the blodshed we're already causing?
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 15, 2006 21:23:27 GMT -5
It was NEVER the USA's job to babysit the world and fix all of its problems. Ahem. THE ROOSEVELT CORALLARY.Thank you.
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 16, 2006 21:19:03 GMT -5
Ahem. The Roosevelt Corallary was reversed by the Clark Memorandum seventy six years ago. Besides, it only applied to Latin America in the first place. In fact, the entire purpose of the Roosevelt Corallary was to secure AMERICAN interests in Latin America, not to make sure the Latin Americans were being treated fairly. We just wanted to make sure we got the resources before Europe did. Gandalan, why did you even bring this up? It's not even close to being relevant.
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 16, 2006 21:33:34 GMT -5
Ahem. The Roosevelt Corallary was reversed by the Clark Memorandum seventy six years ago. Besides, it only applied to Latin America in the first place. In fact, the entire purpose of the Roosevelt Corallary was to secure AMERICAN interests in Latin America, not to make sure the Latin Americans were being treated fairly. We just wanted to make sure we got the resources before Europe did. Gandalan, why did you even bring this up? It's not even close to being relevant. Perhaps not. Excuse me. After WW2, we essentially accepted the 'Worldwide Police Power' because Britain was no longer able to continue doing so.
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 16, 2006 21:45:59 GMT -5
That's not the Roosevelt Corollary. And it's not America's job to be the police of the world, and it sure as hell wasn't Britain's either. Americans aren't the moral superior of everyone else. Making a law that says Americans are the police is simply a pathetic way of justifying our own policies of expansionism. Tell me, did everyone in the world vote for America to become the police? Cause I have a feeling they didn't.
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 16, 2006 21:48:34 GMT -5
That's not the Roosevelt Corollary. And it's not America's job to be the police of the world, and it sure as hell wasn't Britain's either. Americans aren't the moral superior of everyone else. Making a law that says Americans are the police is simply a pathetic way of justifying our own policies of expansionism. Tell me, did everyone in the world vote for America to become the police? Cause I have a feeling they didn't. I know it's not the Roosevelt Corallary, I made that mistake and said so in the last post. I didn't EVER say we're the moral superior of everybody. Don't EVEN implicate that I did. Last I checked, we liberated a nation. I don't think we've gained any territory recently... And no, they didn't. Did we vote on the 9/11 attacks? I mean, I hate the Yankees too, but cmon people, geez.
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 16, 2006 21:55:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your last post(regarding the Roosevelt Corollary). And no, you never said Ameicans are morally superior to anyone else. But making them the police of the world would require them to be morally superior. We have not "gained territory" but making America the police would give us the right to conquer nations that required it. No, we didn't vote on the 9/11 attacks. But since neither Saddam nor Iraq had anything to do with it, it doesn't justify our invasion, nor does it justify us policing the rest of the world.
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 16, 2006 22:03:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your last post(regarding the Roosevelt Corollary). And no, you never said Ameicans are morally superior to anyone else. But making them the police of the world would require them to be morally superior. We have not "gained territory" but making America the police would give us the right to conquer nations that required it. No, we didn't vote on the 9/11 attacks. But since neither Saddam nor Iraq had anything to do with it, it doesn't justify our invasion, nor does it justify us policing the rest of the world. Well, SOMEBODY has to clean up for the UN. They never get ANYTHING right. We haven't conquered any nations or taken them over. We've toppled a harmful dictator, and that justifies our prescense there. We aren't staying there long; why the hell would we want a desert land? Their oil can be duplicated in Alaska. ;D
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 16, 2006 22:15:12 GMT -5
Except we'll stay till at least 2008, while some generals are estimating we'll be there till 2011. And if we were even slightly better at handling things than the UN, Gandalan, I would agree with you.
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gambitia
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Post by gambitia on Nov 16, 2006 22:22:10 GMT -5
We've toppled a harmful dictator, and that justifies our prescense there. If only that was the reason we went there. We did not go to Iraq to fulfill some grand mission of liberation. We went there because we were worried we were about to get the crap bombed out of us. To me, intent is just as important as outcome. I would have had a lot more support for the Iraq war had its intent be to topple Saddam Hussein's regime. But that was never our intent until everyone realized that hey, there aren't any WMDs here! Only then did our mission change to "Liberate Iraq!" Which frankly, (a) sounded like BS cooked up to justify the war, (b) is pretty arrogant, and (c) isn't our responsibilty. We're trying to "nation-build." And it isn't working.
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 16, 2006 22:26:45 GMT -5
Point taken from DOTW, except that we are less able to solve problems than the UN. That's not my opinion of them.
And, to Gambitia, I know that. I know that he said WMD's and then changed it later. Regardless, it happened. We DID liberate them, contrary to whatever it is you believe in.
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 18, 2006 1:03:47 GMT -5
We liberated them from one hellhole and now we're placing them in another. Everything is going downhill fast, and that was way before those wily democrats recently took power. But I'm sure the Republicans were just waiting to surprise us in the final stretch.
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 18, 2006 1:39:39 GMT -5
We liberated them from one hellhole and now we're placing them in another. Everything is going downhill fast, and that was way before those wily democrats recently took power. But I'm sure the Republicans were just waiting to surprise us in the final stretch. I really wonder what the Democrats are going to do that is so much better for Iraq. Let's wait and see what happens. ;D
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Post by Karatelover on Nov 20, 2006 14:40:52 GMT -5
ROFL... Iraq + Pyramids!!!! Anyway, I personally think the war in Iraq was a terrible idea... first of all, the war was ORIGINALLY started coz of the WMD conspiricy > which later turn out to be false which is when the media started declaring the war was to liberate Iraq... But the thing is America is trying to make an absolute dictatorship country into a capatlist country in 3 years... what were they thinking... you can't expect the mind set of people to change in that short period of time... + eventhough Saddam Hussien was a jerk dictator, he did maintain the peace between the Shia and Sunni tribe... and now with him gone, everything went to hell... I couldn't agree with you more. I don't believe in spreading democracy, it's no better than spreading communism or religon. Now Iraq is having a stupid civil war between different groups of Islam. I think it's so sad. Why can't we all just get along?!
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 20, 2006 16:05:43 GMT -5
Because we can't? ;D
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