Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Horyo on Apr 2, 2008 21:17:17 GMT -5
You've seen it many places in the news, probably. But I'm still shocked over this incident. www.mercurynews.com/ci_8781630?source=most_emailedWhat's shocking more is that they were organized (for third graders) and potentially dangerous to others, if not to themselves and their own teacher. " Police Chief Tony Tanner said the students apparently planned to knock the teacher unconscious with a glass paperweight, bind her with handcuffs and duct tape and then stab her with a broken steak knife. The scheme involved a division of roles, Tanner said. One child's job was to cover windows so no one could see outside, and another was supposed to clean up after the attack. " While I can't tell where they might have receieved such influlence, it is quite shocking that their plans could have been effective. " Currie said the children are too young to be charged as adults, and probably too young to be sentenced to a youth detention center." While I don't condone locking up children, shouldn't they receive some form of punishment? Other than media press coverage, shouldn't they receive help? " Nine children have been given discipline up to and including long-term suspension, said Theresa Martin, spokeswoman for the Ware County school system. She would not be more specific but said none of the children had been back to school since the case came to light." Does that seem comforting? They weren't quite specific on how the children received such discipline, however they were let back into school. School system policy says any student who brings "anything reasonably considered to be a weapon" is to be expelled for at least the remainder of the school year. My last point is, what is a weapon? I can jab someone in the neck with a pencil at school, and yet we need pencils. ANYTHING can be a weapon, but how can someone justly prove that someone else meant for it as a weapon? Thoughts please.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Apr 2, 2008 22:15:13 GMT -5
Oh, yes, I heard about this. Everybody at school was talking about it today. I think it's incredibly disturbing. When I was in third grade, I could have never imagined doing this to anyone! I am so surprised at how organized and well-planned this was... I can't help but wonder how they got these ideas. Was it movies and books? Did their parents raise them to be this way? Or are their disabilities the main factor? I think the children, even if they are very young, should be punished. They need to understand the consequences of their actions. If they are let off the hook, they'll think it was not a big deal and okay to try it again. And if they go back to school, their fellow students would never let them live it down. Everyone would think they were crazy. About pencils being used as weapons- I think for a pencil to do damage, it would have to be pretty well sharpened, moving with sufficient force, and aimed very well. IMO, these things would bring attention to a person... it's be hard to pass it off as just bubbling in your Scan-tron or something.
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o8jedi
Jet
Please, call me "o8"
Posts: 364
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Post by o8jedi on Apr 3, 2008 2:21:36 GMT -5
When I first saw this article, I thought it was an April Fool's Day joke.
I'm just a bit astonished that 3rd graders were plotting a conspiracy, period. It takes a special kind of angry to subdue someone and beat the crap out of them. Most pyschologists will say that, at that age, one simply does not harbor that amount of hatred. They're more apt to try something in the heat of the moment. If not, they forget about it and move on.
To be fair, I'm not entirely sure they knew the consequences of their actions. After all, from what I gathered in an AP article, they were special ed students, although I must admit that it is a bit disturbing to think of kids impersonating Mr. Blonde from Reservoir Dogs.
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
Tame the Flame
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Post by Atmos on Apr 3, 2008 4:11:09 GMT -5
With something of this degree happening, my attention goes to the parents and household in general.
Whoever kid(s) came up with this had to have had a pretty solid source for imitation. With all I could go by, I'm assuming this is a case of kids not knowing the extent of what they are mimicking rather than possession of a mature-hatred (oxymoron) as o8 mentioned.
As for a weapon, it's all based on what it's going to be intended for. Practically every school and house applicance can be used to injury or kill. In short, what I would assume as a weapon is an object that just "shouldn't be there" or anything that's made only with the purpose to destroy, like a gun.
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Post by Gran Gran on Apr 3, 2008 7:21:01 GMT -5
Considering my kid is in that age group, I find it hard to grasp that not only one or 2 kids where involved in the plot but a rather large group!
Makes you wonder....he has a great deal of anime/game violence recourses, but I don't think he'd consider harming another human being in the way...Atmos has hit the nail on the head, to come up with an elaborate plot like that...where do they come up with that stuff!
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
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Post by attonbitus on Apr 3, 2008 10:05:13 GMT -5
hmmm... yes disturbing but I can see how a 3rd grader could think it up. Getting that many kids to following along though is what astounds me.
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Post by nymphadora on Apr 3, 2008 11:48:50 GMT -5
I also read that they were special education students and that authorities were not sure if all of them actually knew that the intent was to harm the teacher. One student probably got the idea and convinced the others to help out. Some might've thought it was for fun or a game. For me, everything up until 6th or 7th grade was just a blur. I didn't even begin to think about peer pressure, violence, dating - any of the more mature topics. Third grade was just fun and games and coloring and learning. I didn't think of being violent in any way. These kids need to be taught right from wrong and learn the consequences, as someone said above, but it shouldn't be too severe if they didn't really know what they were doing.
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Post by spirityue on Apr 3, 2008 12:01:42 GMT -5
Personally, I think the ADHD stuff gets thrown around a wee bit too much! When the parents don't want to take responsibility for not raising their children right, then it's always "Oh, but my child has attention deficet, or, but my child is hyperactive, or whatever, PFFT! It was mentioned at the end of the article that the "Parents" stated the children involved had disorders, but if they honestly did, then there would be record of that in the school. There was no mention of that. Also, the crap about kids having the idea that it would be just like a cartoon makes me want to hurl! Both my boys are in the age group of these kids, and yes, they watch cartoons and play video games avidly, but they can still differentiate between reality and fantasy. I think it all falls back on the parents being lazy or simply not caring to involve theirselves enough in their childs life and the kids are acting out because of it. Yes, the story is a bit disturbing, and yes, punish the children for their actions, but also take the time to investigate the homelife of said children.
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Apr 3, 2008 12:56:12 GMT -5
^ but parents can't sue themselves I totally agree that parents need to be more active.
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Post by CountessRachel on Apr 3, 2008 13:53:52 GMT -5
To be completely honest, a part of me found this rather amusing. Not that I wanted the teacher to get hurt, but the fact that a bunch of third graders were in cahoots on such a high level...it reminded me of something from Kids Next Door actually.
I agree with spirityue in that something went wrong somewhere in the parenting area. My little brother is in the third grade and, sad to say, has seen all sorts of violent movies and video games--he even saved up his allowance and bought Quake 4 for our Xbox360. But he knows what is and isn't reality and he certainly doesn't devise plots with his classmates to hold people hostage.
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Post by conspiracytheorist on Apr 3, 2008 17:17:12 GMT -5
Blah blah parents, blah blah negligence. Obviously the parents weren't doing their jobs. But the kids here aren't innocent. Not old enough to be put in juvie? They planned on stabbing their teacher with a knife! Put the ringleader here in some kind of program, at the least. =/
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Post by Gran Gran on Apr 3, 2008 18:00:10 GMT -5
Well, that is true, but somewhat beside the point. I mean, not even the kids in my son's old school, with half of them coming from the projects and the other half being otherwise low on the social latter, would I have expected something like that! (oh and where in the world do these kids get hand cuffs from?! not exactly sold at Walmart and toysRus!)
The whole incident is seriously disturbing....and in most instances, parents are responsible for the acts of their kids, especially that young!
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girlunderglass
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Post by girlunderglass on Apr 3, 2008 20:03:05 GMT -5
What I think everyone is failing to miss with this story is that the kids were in a "Special Ed" class. Now a days, this is an extremely board range of children with very different issues. It's no longer just children that have learning disabilities, it is also children that are emotionally disturbed for a multitude of reasons.
We can't point the finger at the parents or the children's upbringing. There are some issues that are just beyond the realm of what a parent can teach. How is a parent to be held responsible for their schizophrenic kid who has no control over themself?
I personally blame the board of education. It has become a common practice in most states to have what's called inclusive classrooms- where both special ed. students and general population children are placed in the same class to promote stimulation to children who need the help of other well adapted kids to find their place in a functional setting. This is a great concept and it has helped many children that are on the borderline of needing special ed. or not.
Then there is the all too ugly flip side of this concept. Special ed. children fall under three major categories, some falling into one or more. Those that can not be introduced to an inclusion classroom, are all piled into the same program as special education which covers: Children that have learning disabilities, children that have behavioral issues and are mentally disturbed and children with mild physical handicaps.
Do these three types of students belong in the same classroom? I honestly feel that they do not, after trying my hand at being a teaching assistant several years ago.
The kids that have learning disabilities generally just need a little more time to explain something before they can master a task. Most of these students are well behaved. Had they been put in a general population class, they would likely become overwhelmed and fall behind with the work pace.
The children that are emotionally disturbed or have behavioral issues need more time to correct their actions. They can generally pick up the work being taught to them, providing you can get them to sit still long enough to learn it. Often these kids just can not control themselves and it is difficult for the slow learners to have to constantly stop due to an outburst. However, if these kids are properly diagnosed and placed in the right classroom, they flourish.
Then there are the kids that have mild physical disabilities; whom usually require some sort of physical therapy or occupational therapy to help them overcome their handicaps. These kids are constantly shuffled in out of the classroom for these special courses and end up either falling behind or completely overwhelmed when they come back to an environment that changes like the breeze.
The point I am trying to make, is that Special Education has become the dumping grounds for kids that do not qualify for the chance of being in an inclusion classroom. The result is less segregation, which in this case is needed. If the school board took the time to evaluate each child based on their conditions and needs not only would they all do better academically, but the chances of something like this happening would be less.
Children, regardless of their inflictions or lack thereof are very preceptive of their surroundings. Treat them like people and in a way conducive to their needs and they react fine. Stick them in a situation that they feel different, even among their classmates and things will go awry- and it is not the parents fault.
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
Tame the Flame
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Post by Atmos on Apr 4, 2008 2:36:04 GMT -5
I'd give more sympathy to the parents if this issue was dealing with an older age group.
However I admit I didn't think of the other factor that girlunderglass well explained. Being that kids spend about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week in school, the classroom environment can be particularly influencial to a child, especially socially. I guess I didn't think about it since the article didn't mention any suspicion of neglect in the classroom.
Within the large group, I can very much imagine that it was only like 1 or 2 of being the ring leader behind the scheme, while many others just went along because they thought of it as just a game, as nymphadora mentioned.
And while I do agree that the Special Ed system can be more organized and more efficient than it is now, "IMO" I wouldn't think it to be flawed to the point in driving the students to such a level of misguidance. And what I've seen back in my school district, there was always at least 3 adults to supervise or attend to the Special Ed group - if any form of negligence happening on the staffs' part, I'd think that 'something' would have been reported.
But that fact that these are 3rd graders, not even middle schoolers...and it just keeps me on the question, "What is going on at home?" And as Grangran pointed out with the handcuffs - least to say is that one parent here hasn't been keeping tabs on there work gear.
(And to throw in a more paranoid note: handcuffs --> cop? --> gun?? )
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Apr 5, 2008 5:59:26 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Seriously I'm shocked right now....those kids thought of doing that to someone and carried it out?
Special Ed or not that's just disturbing, I mean when I was a kid in Kindergarten I was already playing stuff like Mortal Kombat but I never thought of harming anyone! Then again I'm thinking it was probably 2 kids at the most. I mean, I find it impossible that the others would go along with something like that.
There had to be some sort of manipulation so I'm all for the notion that most thought it was only a game. Kinda like playing 'Pirates' and walking the plank. I don't completely let the parents off the hook either 'cause I'm quite certain hand cuffs arn't sold so casually that a kid could get their hands on one.
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