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Post by frozenwind141 on Nov 8, 2007 15:40:14 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm butting in here, but I would just hold off absolute judgment of Season 3 before you've seen 'The Puppetmaster' because in my opinion I think it's by far the best episode the Season, maybe even the entire series. Hopefully you might be a bit more encouraged with that episode as I really do think it's wonderful.
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Post by lunachaos on Nov 8, 2007 15:58:10 GMT -5
@maha: Yes! I'm definitely not discouraged by the lack of Zutara, because that's been what we've been getting throughout the whole course of Avatar, right?
It's just that Avatar used to be so incredibly entertaining. We didn't know what would happen, and the plot was flawless. Now...where's the plot? Why did they start the season like this? Last season they opened with a bang right away!
Now the show...is just flat most of the time.
And I really don't think that you should have to wait to the fifth or sixth episode of a show that usually kicks it up a notch right away to FINALLY get into something when the seasons run for only 20 episodes. But hey, that's my opinion.
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Post by mahatista on Nov 8, 2007 16:24:52 GMT -5
@maha: Yes! I'm definitely not discouraged by the lack of Zutara, because that's been what we've been getting throughout the whole course of Avatar, right? It's just that Avatar used to be so incredibly entertaining. We didn't know what would happen, and the plot was flawless. Now...where's the plot? Why did they start the season like this? Last season they opened with a bang right away! Now the show...is just flat most of the time. And I really don't think that you should have to wait to the fifth or sixth episode of a show that usually kicks it up a notch right away to FINALLY get into something when the seasons run for only 20 episodes. But hey, that's my opinion. Exactly. I feel like we've been sort of marking time, waiting for them to decide who everybody is. I've mentioned before that I feel like this season has a 'do-over' feel, and that we're supposed to forget everything that happened in seasons 1 & 2 and they're just doing whatever they want with season 3. They're servicing the plot to some extent but not in an organic way that builds off what they did with 1 & 2. Organics are my new obsession. You have to build on what you've got because everything you've done before is true, no matter what you have to do from there, you have established a truth and you have to honor that. To ignore what you've done (and not done -- background info/setup) before lends every new piece of the story a 'house of cards' feeling. I had to miss last week's episode because I was sick. I had to wait until I felt better to watch it. Frankly, I was in no hurry. That just makes me sad. BTW: I did really like The Runaway, but not enough to feel as excited as I used to feel about upcoming epis.
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Post by lunachaos on Nov 8, 2007 16:30:25 GMT -5
OMG, that's a perfect way to describe it. That's exactly how I feel. They're totally just disregarded seasons 1 & 2 and now they're making something else based off the characters and relationships they've developed (or haven't =P) Gah, a fanfiction, only this time it's the real deal! I was the same way. I've missed two I think, and I still haven't made them up because I don't feel like it. And that's saddening
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Post by mahatista on Nov 8, 2007 16:40:44 GMT -5
OMG, that's a perfect way to describe it. That's exactly how I feel. They're totally just disregarded seasons 1 & 2 and now they're making something else based off the characters and relationships they've developed (or haven't =P) Gah, a fanfiction, only this time it's the real deal! I was the same way. I've missed two I think, and I still haven't made them up because I don't feel like it. And that's saddening It's interesting you bring up fanfiction because many of the things they've done in season 3 I've read at FFN. But that's to be expected when there's so much fanfiction going on. However, I would also expect the actual show to do the plotline at least as well as the FFN stories and sadly, that's not what's been happening. And I think that's because the FFN stories are using specifics gleaned from the first two seasons. When a writer is good he/she will expand on those specifics (where there's room to do it) and the whole plot unfolds in a very believable way, but still has lots of surprises. You don't have to go non-sequitur to be unpredictable. The specific things you put in your script will achieve the surprise element for you. At this point, Avatar should be sort of writing itself. It seems as if I'm seeing the 'work' of the writing as I'm watching it. But you should watch those epis Luna. Don't completely abandon it. Even as depressing as it is to have to leave behind all that story foundation, they can be entertaining once you've wiped you brain of all expectations. The Runaway was probably the closest to a return to the old days as we've seen in season 3 IMO. I found The Avatar and the Firelord a little tedious and there were several huge moments where I sighed loudly wondering why something from season 2 that should have been referenced if anyone was paying attention was ignored, but it was a good episode for background/exposition.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Nov 8, 2007 17:33:54 GMT -5
All I can do, then, is point you guys back to frozen's first post on this page, and hope you feel better. Fasten your seatbelts; it's a freaky ride. I. Love. This. Show.
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Post by Kohana on Nov 8, 2007 17:39:19 GMT -5
I've seen the Puppetmaster already and I still feel what Luna and mahatista are feeling.
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Post by psylum on Nov 8, 2007 17:43:06 GMT -5
The problem many people are having with the story is that at this point there's a set point where many importnat things are going to happen, and the problem is that only certain things can happen before the big event. The Gaang is actually trying to lay low and cause as few waves as possible before the invasion. But no waves at all would make for a boring string of episodes. Things have to happen that are entertaining between 1-9, and the main plot is naturally going to feel stagnant up until episode 10-11.
The point is there's just not a lot the Gaang can do before the invasion because they're trying to lay low.
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Post by lunachaos on Nov 8, 2007 17:49:39 GMT -5
What really would have made the show interesting in this season would to have less time before the invasion. If they're just gonna load us with filler-worthy episodes then I don't have much interest in it. Put the invasion earlier in the season, and then have them work around it later on. That would have grabbed my attention and held it.
And I really do NOT like waiting for 10 episodes to finally get something that's meaningful to the plot. That means half of it is wasted.
I dunno, just depends on personal preference. Some people like waiting for things to happen, but I get impatient quickly, especially since season 1 &2 were really good at getting straight to the point and continuing the plot almost perfectly lol can't forget about the divide =P.
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Post by Kohana on Nov 8, 2007 17:54:15 GMT -5
I agree with Luna. The pace of the first half has been so slow. They put too much effort in character development, but frankly I haven't seen much development.
Only in ep1 Aang has gone from emo to his cheery self again. Then there's Zuko, yes, but they're doing his all wrong and I can't explain why or I'll be giving out spoilers.
After the Invasion episodes, things will be dark again, which I assumed this season will be, but I'm afraid they're going to rush everything from then. Too many loose ends needs to be tied up.
It's from the one extreme pace to the other.
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Post by lunachaos on Nov 8, 2007 17:57:32 GMT -5
Yep! A good show can balance the plot and character development at the same time. Avatar did that in the first two seasons, but I'm not seeing that this time. Plus they're just totally screwing up Zuko's character. Unless they want us to hate him before he can redeem himself, but for us to accept the redemption we're going to have to harbor some sympathy still.
Yeah, with 10 episodes left finally dedicated to plot, things will most likely be rushed.
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Post by psylum on Nov 8, 2007 17:59:50 GMT -5
Sokka's had his fighting skills honed, Aang and Zuko have learned the relationship between their predicessors(Roku for Aang, Sozin for Zuko.) The Gaang has been seeing firsthand the effects of the war on the Fire Nation's people. Aang's own fighting and bending skills have progressed greatly(he has Toph-vision now), We know where Appa gets the cool armor he had in the preview.
This is actually about the same amount of important stuff that happened by the halfway point of season 2. Things didn't get rolling in season 2 until The Library.
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Post by lunachaos on Nov 8, 2007 18:06:34 GMT -5
I disagree (about the last part you mentioned). Throughout the whole second season they juggled and balanced character development. Toph was introduced in 6th episode, and that's one part of the plot already nailed in! What episode are we on in season three? Six or seven? Part of the Earth Book was to find Aang an earthbending teacher. That was part of the PLOT. The Return to Omashu and the Cave of Two Lovers was a part of character development and plot as well, because we met Ty Lee and Mai.
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Post by psylum on Nov 8, 2007 18:16:50 GMT -5
Finding a Firebending teacher hasn't come up yet because they are going on the hope that the eclipse is endgame(obviously it isn't, but that's not the point.) and that Aang will be able to master firebending afterword. Right now their main focus is the Day of black sun, this is the reality of the story, the character's mindsets, and when the action is going to start rolling.
You can't just write something into a story JUST because it would make the story better, it kind of has to work with what you've layed down before. So I think Maha is mistaken, the story IS going along organically, it's just at a place that some people are not enjoying right now. This is perfectly understandible, as we're not all required to like every single moment, but we do need to understand this is the story they've been setting up so far, perfectly so in fact.
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Post by night on Nov 8, 2007 18:21:27 GMT -5
*rolls in*
I just dun like the current story so far. I do understand that the beginning of the season was in fact, a plot *gasp*, but quite honestly, I just hate the direction of everything. It seems like the episodes are rushed themselves, the storyline seems awkward, etc.
Just saying that Season 3 sux0rz so far!
<3
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