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Post by mahatista on Sept 11, 2007 10:33:27 GMT -5
^^ Again, don't sidestep away, frozen. I have obviously not been clear.
In a ship room the regulars are there because they support the ship. They stand on the deck of the ship so-to-speak. Often when someone comes in to challenge something in the debate (most often in Zutara) they are challenging the validity of the ship. We're standing on the deck of the ship and we have to then debate the validity of said ship.
If there weren't these same debates going on in spoilers, theories, and even here in relationships on a separate thread about Zuko's love life, it might not be so annoying. However, the debate rages elsewhere. Why bring it to a place where the regulars have all agreed to stand on the foundation of this ship?
mindbender hates Zutara and that's a simple fact. So, past history counts as well when going into a ship's room. When you come in sarcastic and you have a history of Zutara-hate, yeah I'm gonna get ticked that you came into this room and hijacked the discussion.
I consider people who do that trolls on other boards. Perhaps I should start calling it that here too?
Here's something simple to keep in mind. Before you go into another ship's room, ask yourself a couple of questions. Why am I joining this discussion? Do the comments I want to post force these shippers to justify their ship? Do I hate this ship and is that why I want to challenge them? Has this challenge been raised and discussed before elsewhere or even in this room?
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Post by frozenwind141 on Sept 11, 2007 10:41:17 GMT -5
Oooookay, um. One I do not 'hate' Zutara. I don't hate anything to do with Avatar, especially ships, so could you not say that I do? :/
I'm going to keep this short. When I debate I'm not getting you to 'justify' your ship. I'm simply debating a point that you have made, if the point is as one might see it 'wrong' then there's no rule in the forum that says that were not allowed to argue against it. Its not being a troll, it's being active.
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Post by mahatista on Sept 11, 2007 10:48:22 GMT -5
^^I didn't say you hated it. I said mindbender did and I think there's plenty of evidence all over DH to support that claim.
I guess it's the difference between being fanon and canon. You have plenty of evidence to justify your ship (if you have one of the couple that are canon) and we have a feeling or an enthusiasm for something we see as romantic. So we cannot justify it based on much that is real. So when you come in to debate a certain point, often it comes off as a reminder that we don't actually have anything but the dream and we should remember our places.
I'm sorry if your sarcasm in the past has caused me to have some negative feelings toward some of your posts. I have been accused of the same thing, so I try to be clear.
But I guess the point really is that this is fanon and those who ship canon are in a sense pouring salt on a wound when demanding justification for an idea.
I will stop ranting about this now because hopefully it's clear enough. It won't stop some from coming here and hijacking, in fact that's just become the pattern now. But they won't/can't stop Zutara either so I guess we're even. X-D
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Post by frozenwind141 on Sept 11, 2007 11:16:43 GMT -5
Alrighty then, I completely understand where your coming from. ^^
I still don't agree with some of things your saying but there's no point in continuing this anyway, but it was nice to set somethigns straight.
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Silent_E
Appa
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Sept 11, 2007 11:43:34 GMT -5
...now please explain this too me, why is it that things like Baker's comment about Zutara not happening, Brian stating that Zuko and Mai are great together, and Kataang being in the DNA of the show dismissed so quickly but yet one reviewer's opinion about Maiko being "inexplicable" (which if he kept up with things, he would know that's not all of that true) and Zuko stating "I wonder if i've changed?" supposed to equal Zutara? I'm really curious Not that it equals Zutara, it's just that it is the same question/statement Katara yelled at Zuko. It is not like he pulled it out of the air somewhere and asked himself this. (Of course, if he has a flashback of him fighting Katara, then that will only justify where he got it.
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Post by mahatista on Sept 11, 2007 12:14:13 GMT -5
^^ I wouldn't bother debating this because the comment wasn't meant to spur debate just defense. But particularly since it's about a spoiler and many of us won't be able to participate, I wouldn't bother.
But if what you're saying is what I think you're saying, then it goes with some things we were talking about near the end of 64. A list of interactions between Zuko and Katara was made. We've talked in the past about how few their interactions have been and how every one of them is super-charged. That's what makes it Zutara. And some things can be considered interactions that might be surprising. If he's thinking about something that came up in an exchange with Katara, I would consider counting that as an interaction.
But since it's a spoiler and I'm against them --- X-S --- I now have to burn my eyes with acid. I know it doesn't make sense, but my convictions are really strong.
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Silent_E
Appa
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Sept 11, 2007 12:20:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry about that spoiler mahatista. For some reason the spoiler tags in my post wouldn't show.
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Sept 11, 2007 12:23:21 GMT -5
hehe well now aren't we all happy^^;;?
anyway, there was a list of zuko and katara interactions? did that ever get finished?
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Post by mahatista on Sept 11, 2007 12:31:40 GMT -5
^^ Yes, it was longer than I thought it would be. It's in 64 in the last quarter of it, I'd say. Maybe the list should be added to the elements listed at the beginning of each new room thread, like fanfics, fanvids, art, manips. It's a good list to have for reminders.
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Sept 11, 2007 12:35:16 GMT -5
k i'll go look^_^. hmm yeah maybe it should be. i guess one of us should mention it to rocio.
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Alleluia
Kyoshi Mai
Earthbending General of the Zutarian Army
Icon by Youkaislayer
Posts: 2,384
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Post by Alleluia on Sept 11, 2007 14:48:33 GMT -5
I present The List (lol): Aang-Zuko: Ep102: Encounter in the WT village, chat about fathers on the ship,and fight on the ship. (3) Ep104: Fight on Kyoshi. (1) Ep108: Roku's Temple. (1) Ep109: Attempted Trade-off with the pirates. (1) Ep112: Eye contact during the storm. (1) Ep113: Blue Spirit jailbreak, conversation after said jailbreak. (2) Ep115: Zuko/Aang fight in the nunnery courtyard. (1) Ep120: Zuko's convo to unconscious Aang, the convo and fight(sort of) when Aang woke up, Aang saving Zuko. (3) Zuko-Katara: Ep102: WT village incident. (1) Ep104: Katara spying Zuko's troops as they enter the island.(1) Ep106: Zuko finding Katara's necklace.(1) Ep107: Zuko seeing Katara flying around on Appa. (1) Ep109: Capture of Katara with the pirates, attempted bribery with the necklace. (2) Ep115: Capture of Katara, balancing her paralyzed form on the shirshu.(2) Ep119: Oasis Fight. (1) Ep120: The Rematch. (1) Season One- Aang-Zuko: 13 Zuko-Katara: 9 Season Two- Aang-Zuko: Ep208: Fight against one another, fight alongside one another. (2) Ep220: Glaring at the rescue, fight between Aang and Zuko in finale.(2) Zuko-Katara: Ep208: Fighting alongside one another, Katara offering to heal Iroh. (2) Ep219: Katara spying Zuko in the tea shop.(1) Ep220: Cave convo(s) and scar touching, backwards glance/look away as Katara left, fight against one another. (3) Season 2- Aang-Zuko: 4 Zuko-Katara: 6 Totals: Aang-Zuko: 17 Zuko-Katara: 15Credit goes to myself and Bagpipeturtle for formulating it. And the rest of these lovely catacombs dwellers for signing off on it. (Perhaps I should have only set out the list of Z/K interactions? For our purposes, I mean. Though including the A/Z interactions is interesting for comparison purposes. Hmm... :/) And Mahatista good on you for defending the catacombs against someone who came in here simply to provoke us. You get karma from me. And Froze you said there are points about Zutara you disagree with and would debate. Actual points of contention, we have no problem discussing here and have done so a lot in the past. If you wouldn't mind, I would like to see some of your questions/objections about Zutara. Could be fun.
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Sept 11, 2007 15:10:54 GMT -5
ah thanks, alle^_^. hmm interesting. only two less. i think i feel like giving you guys nostalgia, but i was wondering something. what scene got you all to start liking zutara and which one had the most effect on how you feel about it?...like made you like it more or less i suppose. just curious^_^. oh and i heard a song that remind me of zutara today...actually a few. have you guys ever heard of chris daughtry? well i got daughtry's CD a couple days ago, and there are so many zutaraish songs on there
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Solvabibble
Metalbending Cop
Zutarian Duchess
You gotta deal with it.
Posts: 5,049
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Post by Solvabibble on Sept 11, 2007 15:14:31 GMT -5
Thanks again for sticking up for us, Mahatista Sorry I wasn't much help, I had to run to class. I also present you with a *karma* @clear: YUSH YUSH YUSH! I love Daughtry! ;D Don't have the cd, but "It's Not Over" has always made me think of Zutara.
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Alleluia
Kyoshi Mai
Earthbending General of the Zutarian Army
Icon by Youkaislayer
Posts: 2,384
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Post by Alleluia on Sept 11, 2007 15:21:53 GMT -5
No prob, Clear. It was my post so I figured it would be easiest for me to find. lol I just had to look in my previous post list instead of a whole quarter of a 90+ page thread. @.@
Hmmm... When I started liking Zutara? Well, when I started liking Avatar. lol I first saw ATLA on the Thanksgiving Day '05 marathon. I think I first thought of it in "Southern Air Temple", when we saw Zuko's mercy toward Zhao. And I remember thinking, as I watched "The Storm", and saw Zuko's past and him saving the helmsman, that he had some awesome traits like bravery and honor. He really came off as cool to me and had the potential to be a great good guy. And I just thought I would love to see him with Katara, because she was great, too. I don't remember if "Imprisoned" and "The Waterbending Scroll" played in that marathon, but I assume they must have. And ofc those both add to the awesomeness of Katara and give us the first Zuko/Katara conversation. I just remember that by the time I saw "The Waterbending Scroll", I was *already* Zutarian. lol
And no, I have never heard of Chris Daughtry. lol >> What are some song titles of his? Or maybe a link to a vid on youtube that uses one?
EDIT(B/c of slolvabibble): Oh wait! He sings "Its Not Over"? I've heard that! ^^ And yeah it reminded me of Zutara too. lol My feelings post-CoD. lol Cus I think Zutara actually still has a canon chance, guys.
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Sept 11, 2007 15:28:28 GMT -5
youtube.com/results?search_query=chris+daughtry&search=Searchhehe there's a few of his songs^^;;. i can't pick just one cause i'm lazy and i like all of them. and solva that's one of my favorites and it's definitely zutara ok so i think it's only right to answer my own question. let's see the first ep. i saw was the great divide...didn't like it. got bored one day and watched the marathon. the ep. that was playing was "winter solstice part one". you know that scene where he looks back and sees appa but goes to find his uncle? for some reason i've loved zutara since then^^;;. as for the scene that's most affected my love of this ship i'd have to say the cave scene at the second season finale. it was exactly how i saw their relationship eventually being. that exact understanding. and i've already said something about seeing magic when i saw it^^;;. lol yeah that probably made it easier, alle
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