WEEKLY DISCUSSION - 2/4 - 2/11

[Amira]

Yes the WD is back! YAY! And this fabulous discussion topic comes straight from the lovely and fabulous Catalyst (some Karma would be in order... ). So discuss away!

Catalyst's Discussion Topic:

"Ship Role Reversal Time"

Okay, I've noticed there's been quite a bit of an underside of hate of opposing ships in the threads these days. Which, though a bad thing, led me to think of a great topic for discussion: ship role reversal.

We all know that there are "opposing" ships, ships that interfere with yours and/or cause yours not to happen. We all know the arguments against these ships. We all also know the saying, "Before you judge someone you must walk a mile in their shoes." (I'm not sure of the exact words, but I'm positive it's something like that xD)

Well, now it's time to exactly that.

In this discussion, everyone is going to argue for their opposing ship.

The really big opposing ships are Kataang and Zutara, but there is other opposition, such as between the Zuko ships, like between Soko and Maiko, or between the Aang ships such as Kataang and Taang, or even between the Sokka ships such as Sukka and Tylokka.

I don't care how much you hate the opposing ship or how much you believe there isn't a chance it could happen. Today we are going to set aside ALL of that and argue for the opposing ship.

I know there are some awesome debaters out there, this is your time to shine and do something out of the norm for once.




Some things to remember:
-Please avoid cliches, such as "opposites attract" or "the good guy always gets the girl/the story has shown it to happen in their favor" and other cliches you all know
-IGNORE the percent of the possibility of the ship happening, instead argue the ways it can happen and argue if those ways make it bound to happen.


Some ideas to get you started:
-Look at the characters themselves, look how they could fulfill each other and help each other, not necessarily how they could "change" each other.
-Use ideas you've thought the ship could happen in a positive way
-Think of things your ship (Your OTP) has not and the opposing ship you're arguing for does
-If all else fails, go into that ship's thread and either look at old posts and discussions about how that ship could happen, or literally post in there and ask questions to those shippers to help your discussion. (Don't worry, they won't bite; I've been in almost all of the ship threads and all of the people are very sweet

So I hope that's enough to get you all started; let's see some people respond that don't normally participate in weekly discussions as well as the many who participate frequently.



If nothing else, I hope this helps you all to have a better understanding of the opposing ship other than "________ SUCKS BECAUSE OF ________"

[yiceman]

Fantastic idea. Lets' see, I don't have a rival ship, but I have become infamous for my "Aang won't be with anyone" debates, so here goes...

Kataang--Let's start with Aang's perspective, where the feelings are strongest. From the start, he was attracted to her, and those feelings have only grown with time. Through all their trroubles and toils, they've truly learned to trust one another. For about half a year now they've virtually lived together, nearly without conflict, and have only grown closer with time. Katara's helped Aang through numerous mential and emotional barriers. She helped him accept the loss of the Air Nomads, helped work him through his guilt after he ran away from being the avatar, helped him feel again after he lost Appa, to name a few. Aang wouldn't be where he is without her, that is without a doubt. She's made him stronger, more confident, and more mature.

From Katara's perspective, though no obvious romantic feelings have developed on her side, the foundations are set. She trusts him, admires him, looks up to him, cares for him and respects him. All of which are important aspects of developing a relationship. The foundations are set on her part, all she needs is more time to see him in a romantic light.

Taang--Things don't always go the way you want, so considering Aang is shot down by Katara or unable to be with her by any other means, things could happen. Stepping outside whether this WILL indeed happen to look at if it COULD, things become clear that yes, these two people would work well together. Toph has obviously been a valuable teacher and supporting figure for Aang, providing him strength and fortitude he never before thought he could attain. They've become close in a relatively short amount of time, and could only grow closer. Toph helped Aang learn and grown on his own, something Katara never tried. Instead of a "gentle nudge," Toph taught Aang ways to learn on his own, allowing him to grow even furuther in strength and character.

For Toph, Aang was the one who set her free. He's been her chance to get out in the world and prove herself. Never once did he doubt her abilities like everyone else, in fact he asked her to teach him. He's been her connection to the outside world, and a pivotal person in opening her up as a person. Without him, she would still be trapped in her unfulfilled lifestyle.

[Werewolf Cookie]

As a Maiko and Kataang shipper, I guess this means I have to argue for Zutara *dies*

Well, Zuko and Katara clearly have some things in common; they're both dedicated and determined; they both care about their families (although Zuko doesn't really care about Azula all that much); they both stand up to authority figures when they sense unfairness or injustice (Zuko in the war chamber, Katara vs. Pakku). And Katara, who is caring, motherly and mature, would be able to help Zuko, who is insecure and kinda emotionally unstable. What would Zuko bring to the relationship? I don't know. Um... well, we've seen from Zuko's date with Jin that sometimes Zuko likes to do things to make people happy and to bring a little bit of cute fluffy romance to a girl's evening (the firelight fountain, the kiss) and we've seen from some of Katara's interaction with Jet and possibly Haru and Aang, and also from some of the questions she asked Aunt Wu, that, despite her maturity, Katara really is just a 14-year-old girl who gets crushes and likes romance. So I guess she'd like that aspect of their relationship. And in some ways Katara's a bit like Ursa (loving, protective, maternal etc.), and if you believe that boys have a subconcious Oedipus complex and are attracted to women that remind them of their mothers (or even if you don't. It's clear that Zuko loves his mom) then that's a good thing to look for in a love interest of Zuko's.

And now, as a Soph and Kataang shipper, I shall argue for Tophaang.

Aang and Toph have had some very cute interaction, and clearly have a good effect on one another, with Toph encouraging Aang to be less passive and to stand up for himself and face things head-on, and Aang helping Toph to become less defensive and stand-offish. I think that if either of the two were rejected by their love interest, it would bring up the possibility of this ship.

And I'm not going to argue Sukka or Tykka, coz I like them both and don't consider them a threat to Soph. After all, we all know Sokka can juggle several ladies at once.

[Ana]

This sounds promising.

Zuko/Katara: It would honestly make a fantastic story. With Aang/Katara, and even Mai/Zuko, you already have a foundation to build from but, with Zuko/Katara, you’ll have to start at ground zero. Zuko would have to get over his pride and get back in Katara’s good graces for anything to happen. On Katara’s side, there would be some major trust issues that she would need to overcome before she could even think of falling for him. Zuko and Katara are from two entirely different cultures and sides of the war and it would take a lot for them to have a relationship.

Swaying of the “it would be good for development” thing, they really aren’t all that different. They’re both dedicated and determined; they both worked hard to get where they are with bending (and other things as well I suppose), they both care about their families; they both stand up to authority figures when they sense unfairness or injustice, and they both had a great bond with their mothers. Katara’s caring, mature, and a bit motherly and would be able to help Zuko who is a bit emotionally unstable. As for what Zuko could bring to the relationship, I don’t know. But..uh..he would give her challenge. Zuko would have to make her work (not to heal his tortured soul though) and he likes to do things to make people happy and to bring a little bit of cute fluffy romance to a girl's evening, as Werewolf Cookie said, which Katara would like. And in some ways Katara's a bit like Ursa (loving, protective, maternal etc.) which, even if you don’t believe that boys have a subconscious Oedipus complex, would be good for Zuko I think.

Toph/Aang: Aang and Toph could, or already do, have a good effect on one another. Toph could bring out the side in Aang that’s more firm and faces things head-on, kinda like a rock, and Aang could bring out the side in Toph that is less defensive and stand-offish. Again as Werewolf Cookie said, if they both (or just one of them I suppose) were rejected by their love interests they could bond over it and it would bring up the possibility of this ship.

And..that’s all I got because those are the only ships I really oppose.

[adictvbitrsweet]

AWESOMESAUUCCEEE. I missed the Weekly Discussion! Oh, wow, excellent topic, Cat; I've been comparing and contrasting the ships so much lately. Well, since I'm more pro-Zutara than anything I'll argue for Kataang.

As someone who ships opposingly to Katara/Aang, it means a lot when I say that I think Kataang will be the ultimate ship to happen in A:TLA. Don't get me wrong, I adore Zuko/Katara, but there's just been so much build up for Kataang that at this point, anything different wouldn't really... work out. Smoothly, at least. Kataang has been there since day one, and has been slowly getting deeper and deeper since. At this point in the show, it is very safe to say that Katara and Aang's relationship is without doubt the most multi-dimensional, evolved, and meaningful relationship in the entire series.

If I hadn't been convinced about all of this before the season finale, then it would be The Guru that would totally make me a believer. Pathik's instruction for Aang to let go of Katara seals the ship's fate in stone - it's a textbook point in the epic romance. The hero's love is blossoming, expanding, almost becoming an essential part of him... but alas, fate decides that his love cannot be. Love rises, Love is roadblocked. The hero must cope with circumstances, no matter how trying they may be, and at the same time... the unsuspecting loved one suddenly starts to realize her own feelings for hero. Wariness, awkwardness, and emotional strife ensue, but at a final climax of the plot (i;e: infiltration of Ozai's crib and all subsequent events), the lovers realize their true feelings, confess, and shazam. Love prevails.

But hey, who am I to predict what'll happen for Kataang. I'm just you're plain old, quintessential Zutara shipper. Maybe my ideas are a tad predictable (at least for me), but it's still classic. And very, veryvery liable to happen.

[femaleairbender]

I ship Kataang and Soko, so I guess I'll be arguing for Zutara and Maiko.

Zutara: Well, for starters, Zuko and Katara do have a few things in common. They both are driven, determined indivivauls, it's not easy to knock them down, and they've both lost their mothers. With Kataang and (possibly) Soko, a foundation is set. With Zutara, you have to start at ground level, since there hasn't been much interaction with Zuko and Katara (unless you count the cave scene during "The Crossroads of Destiny," but that's shot down due to the fact Zuko kind of betrayed Katara's trust). For any kind of relationship to form between them, Zuko would have to earn Katara's trust back. Whether he'll swallow his pride and do that remains to be seen.

Maiko: Mai has had a crush on Zuko since childhood, but Zuko pretty much felt the same way about girls as I did about boys until I was in sixth grade; indifferent. It's possible that Mai still harbors feelings for Zuko (or she could have been just reminising about her childhood crush on him at the end of "Return to Omashu"). Now that Zuko's with Azula, he'll be bound to interact with Mai sooner or later. Will Zuko still feel the same way about Mai as he did eight years ago or will that change? We'll have to wait and see.

[aquavi]

Well, I'm mainly a Soko shipper (but I like Soph, Jetko, Youkka and AzuFeng too... but those don't really have anything 'endangering' them in my eyes) and since it's the only opposing ship for me that hasn't been mentioned, I'm going to try my hand at Jinko.

Now given that Zuko's vignette for ToBSS was very short, giving us a very small amount of info about Jin, her personality, backstory, et cetera there is something to say about the ship, that's very evident from their date; Jin would push Zuko out of his anti-social tendancies. Not saying any of other girls wouldn't, but given that Jin asked him out herself as well as directed flow of conversation during dinner and took him to the fountain afterwards, her evident proactivity towards him and a relationship would help Zuko lighten up a little and enjoy himself more. And since he did say he enjoyed the date, being normal is something he wants, and Jin would not be a bad option for that.

[thyme]

As an advocate for canon pairings, I guess I will have to speak for Zutara.

Putting every cliched supposed "evidence" (which includes yin-yang, opposities, bad-guy-good-girl) aside, Zutara can be rather promising in its own demeanor. In order for the two to even establish a fair ground, they have to learn to coexist with one another and accepting the differences between their cultures and beliefs. Because Zuko and Katara come from two different worlds, each of them can learn something new from one another and gain something that can ultimately open their eyes in the future.

I can see a possible friendship forming between them that might break down past barriers that were made when they were enemies. At this point in time, however, feelings between allies and enemies are mismatched because it is during the period of a war.

[avatrshay]

Great topic, Cat.

I mainly ship Kat/Aang and Zutara (Yeah, I know lol). I will be arguing for Taang. *Nods*

Taang- This happens to be a very interesting ship. I honestly thought it would be a threat to Kat/Aang when Toph was introduced. I am still puzzled as to why she was the one Aang saw in "The Swamp". The fact that they saw people they loved and lost could be a very big hint for Taang.
Aang has always seemed to understand her. She is able to open up to him, when throughout her life she has had to keep her thoughts to herself. (AKA, Her life as the blind bandit.)
Do I believe a relationship is possible? Sure I do! Toph is strong and she is a good teacher for Aang. Not only that, but she has grown to be one of his best friends. Though she is strong and tough, we all know Toph has a big heart. She would be good for Aang.