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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Jun 21, 2007 19:07:49 GMT -5
I don't see Iroh as the grudge holding type. Yeah, we saw how torn Zuko appeared. It would be awesome if this were a plan. Either way Zuko must have done something for Azula to post the latest Wanted picture like that.
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Post by Irko Leader Endless on Jun 21, 2007 19:13:31 GMT -5
Yes, Zuko was quite torn on behalf of what happened, but my mother however is talking about how they looked at eachother when Iroh was trapped by the Dai Lee, after he helped Aang and Katara escape. Zuko held no remorseful look in his eyes, they were just blank...a normal Zuko look sota speak, and it panned over to Iroh, he look angry yes, but they were a moment that they were looking at each other in the eyes, my mother told me that they were telling one another something. Hard to explan yes, but you know how people have connection and tell people things...without even opening their mouths. In a way, it was like Zuko was telling Iroh to turn his head away from him...
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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Jun 21, 2007 19:16:35 GMT -5
I totally know what you're talking about. It's a thing that happens in really close relationships. I've always thought the look on Zuko's face was weird being expressionless. And how did Iroh get out of the first crystalization. Might be a hint and hopefully not a sucky plot hole.
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Post by aangryjerk on Jun 21, 2007 19:17:42 GMT -5
Well to tell the truth, I don't think there is a plan, and Zuko really betrayed Iroh. But I do think Iroh will forgive him, he's just terribly hurt. I hope Zuko makes a sincere apology, and starts treating his Uncle better sometime. About those wanted posters, I think that was just a false rumor actually. I vaguely recall reading about it in the spoiler section, and people decided it wasn't reliable.
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 19:20:31 GMT -5
So do you all think Iroh will forgive Zuko? If he didnt,it would be very OOC of him. Iroh is a caring person,especially for Zuko.
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Post by Irko Leader Endless on Jun 21, 2007 19:31:28 GMT -5
And how did Iroh get out of the first crystalization. Might be a hint and hopefully not a sucky plot hole. How did Iroh get out? Zuko let him out. The scene and tore away from Zuko and Iroh, and quickly panned over to Katara, Aang and Azula. There was a matter of ten or more minutes with them both alone in the cave, anything could happen. And being that Iroh was suck, he hands and feet were trapped, no form of being able to bend...or being able to get free'd. If you recall when Azula and Aang fought a little later on, Aang was in his crystal armor, and it took a powerful blast from Azula to throw him back in the wall. Since Zuko was showing more powerful blasts, I bet he used one to let his Uncle out. *winches* Really? A false rumor? But I thought it said something about that it was talked about in the PMX thing...or maybe not. Oh well....it still may be true.
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Post by aangryjerk on Jun 21, 2007 19:38:42 GMT -5
Well, I'm not certain about that. If it was in the PMX report it may be possible to track it down. Otherwise...
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Post by Irko Leader Endless on Jun 21, 2007 19:46:17 GMT -5
Well, if you track it down, and prove that I didn't imanage it, thank you! <3 But if you can't...then *shrug* I dunno...we can still hope. Speaking on the subject of COD, I not sure if anyone saw it, but am I the only one that noticed right before Iroh shot the fire in front of Zuko and Azula, right before it struck. Zuko looked in the same detrection as it? Here is a still frame for the very scene: img402.imageshack.us/img402/8756/codproofdm4.jpgBad image I know, but that's what happens when it's moving. Heh, but still...see? He's looking at the fire before it hits them. And even afterwards, when the fire does strike them, Zuko doesn't take a blocking stance, it's more of a...'hide my face from the fire' stance. Unlike Azula, who puts her hands up, like she's blocking Iroh's blast. Another frame to prove it: img409.imageshack.us/img409/3479/codproof2qq3.jpgInteresting when you look at things from a different angle...hmmm. Could this mean anything to Zuko's so called 'Betrayal'?
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 19:55:17 GMT -5
Well, if you track it down, and prove that I didn't imanage it, thank you! <3 But if you can't...then *shrug* I dunno...we can still hope. Speaking on the subject of COD, I not sure if anyone saw it, but am I the only one that noticed right before Iroh shot the fire in front of Zuko and Azula, right before it struck. Zuko looked in the same detrection as it? Here is a still frame for the very scene: img402.imageshack.us/img402/8756/codproofdm4.jpgBad image I know, but that's what happens when it's moving. Heh, but still...see? He's looking at the fire before it hits them. And even afterwards, when the fire does strike them, Zuko doesn't take a blocking stance, it's more of a...'hide my face from the fire' stance. Unlike Azula, who puts her hands up, like she's blocking Iroh's blast. Another frame to prove it: img409.imageshack.us/img409/3479/codproof2qq3.jpgInteresting when you look at things from a different angle...hmmm. Could this mean anything to Zuko's so called 'Betrayal'? I'm lost....how does that relate to Zukos betrayal??
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Post by Irko Leader Endless on Jun 21, 2007 19:57:38 GMT -5
I meant that Zuko looked to Iroh's shot before it happened, meaning that possibily he knew that it was going to happen, and knew that Iroh would do. The first image is Zuko looking at the fire before it strikes, and the second is him not blocking it, he's covering his face. I just though that prehapes he knew. Another add on to the 'trick' theorie really....
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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Jun 21, 2007 20:24:07 GMT -5
Nice catch, Endless! Great in between the lines. Cuz I never noticed that. *sighs* Who knows?
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Post by Irko Leader Endless on Jun 21, 2007 20:28:23 GMT -5
Thanks, but uhuhuh, don't give up hope Taiyo, you know that Mike and Byran can always pull a fast one on us, and show some flash backs of Zuko when he was with Iroh alone in the cave, which would be later when he's with Azula, and then it would explan everything. I mean...something tells me that the first episode isn't called 'The Awakening' for just Aang's sake ;D But of course, I may be over ainalizing things...once again.
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 20:57:59 GMT -5
I meant that Zuko looked to Iroh's shot before it happened, meaning that possibily he knew that it was going to happen, and knew that Iroh would do. The first image is Zuko looking at the fire before it strikes, and the second is him not blocking it, he's covering his face. I just though that prehapes he knew. Another add on to the 'trick' theorie really.... If you say so.
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Post by greedyslayer on Jun 22, 2007 0:27:52 GMT -5
My 2 cents on is it a trick or not theory for rationalizing the season 2 finale:
I think it could turn out either way.
About immediately after season 2 ended, I was reading everyone's reactions, and I read many that rationalized it as, yes, Zuko betrayed Iroh, though now I forget the details, though I have their links saved somewhere....
Yet there is a precedent for Zuko and Iroh pulling espionage in season finales, mainly the only other one we have, the first season. But more importantly is that for such a crucial scene as Zuko's decision, we don't see a real, man-to-man confrontation between him and his uncle in that prison cave. We only get the answer in that horribly suspensful scene of "who the hell is he gonna attack, Azula or Aang?" Now, only holding off his decision for as long as possible up to the most jaw-dropping point--that is simply a way of elicting the audience's shock, it's part of the suspense element, that's the plot twist right there.
Yet I have to wonder if the Avatar writers would make that plot element work in only one way; I've developed some respect for the writers, and can easily see them first showing one side of an element, then showing the whole truth of it. It still goes back to that they sacrificed one more important scene between Iroh and Zuko for the sake of the greatest surprise to the audience; another reason they couldn't show it, maybe because it revealed that Zuko and Iroh are planning something. (Iroh seems the obvious choice in thinking he's the one who came up with the plan; but maybe Zuko brought it up first. I remember someone saying it would show covert character growth for him: taking Iroh's advice about more thinking ahead--though I don't think in the way his uncle anticipated--figuring out that he has to try a different way to beat Azula. *shrug*)
So, yeah, still can go either way. (Or Azula had the Dai Li do some weird mind-tampering with Zuko before tossing him into that cave; or as someone else suggested, maybe the fever's left Zuko with a very real split-personality disorder; or my personal favorite, it's all still a dream, and Zuko's gonna wake up from his fever nightmare any second now....)
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 22, 2007 1:09:35 GMT -5
^^If it all was a dream, the writers did a excellent job leading us on.
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