|
Post by dragonflly on Mar 29, 2007 23:47:55 GMT -5
But they never say Fire Lord Ozai, just Fire Lord. It could be anyone. I think the direct opposite, I feel that Ozai doesn't have much power, as I have said before, it's intimidation and it is said that his people follow the FL WITHOUT question. nandireya, Azula is a prodigy, I don't believe Iroh is. He's just one heck of a bender! That's the difference. Adaptive and creative may still be overwhelmed by a prodigy if one gets distracted. In time that creativness that Zuko has may be the factor in him beating his little sister finally. I also think that Iroh's creative and adaptiveness is what makes him such a powerful bender. I don't feel that Ozai is THAT powerful seeing as how he had to be sneaky to take the throne. If he were that poweful he could've taken it by force. IMO I could be wrong, been known to happen frequently!
|
|
|
Post by demonofthewest on Mar 30, 2007 20:59:31 GMT -5
Taking things by force isn't Ozai's style. I see him as a more shrewd person, who uses force only when he feels he has to. Besides, taking the throne by force would have meant civil war, which would have torn the nation apart. Ozai was better off being sly; he gained the throne, and he also kept the nation stable. Had a civil war occurred, the fire nation would never have had a chance to take over the world.
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Mar 31, 2007 0:47:46 GMT -5
^^^Ok good point. I still feel there was a reason for Azulon not putting Ozai on the battlefield and Iroh was the one sent to conquer Ba Sing Se. It was an important city to take, if Ozai was stronger, why wasn't he sent? I feel Iroh's strong sprituality makes him the stronger bender, stronger period.
|
|
|
Post by demonofthewest on Mar 31, 2007 13:29:44 GMT -5
Because Ozai might have been the stronger bender, while Iroh was the better general. Bending skills and strategy don't necessarily go hand in hand.
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Mar 31, 2007 23:21:53 GMT -5
^^Sorry don't buy it. If I was heading a war effort I would use ALL of my strongest men, not just one or two, especially if I was trying to take over the world and take over an important city such as Ba Sing Se. Keeping the stronger bender at home doesn't make any sense to me.
It also doesn't seem that Ozai has had any battle experience. Even if he couldn't lead a batallion, don't you think he would have been part of one, being as how strong of a bender he was, he would've been put to good use on the battlefield. IMO, he would've been out there somewhere helping the fight, not kept at home doing nothing.
|
|
yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
|
Post by yiceman on Apr 1, 2007 1:19:32 GMT -5
Do you think Iroh, as a general, actually did any fighting himself? He just sat in a chair a hundred miles away from the battle watching. No general or son of a Fire Lord is running headlong into battle. And if things went awry, Azulon wouldn't want to have two sons in the same place and lose them both. He kept one in reserve.
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Apr 1, 2007 1:42:22 GMT -5
Actually the knife Iroh gave Zuko was taken from the general inside the first wall. He also said in another eppie, that HE and his men were tired. I don't see Iroh as sitting in a chair and not being involved, it's just not his style, well back then anyway.
Keeping one son in reserve. I guess if you'd let the stronger one of the 2 in reserve, but it is kinda silly. Oh well, I'll stick to my idea. No one needs to agree with me, it's my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. Like I have said I could be wrong, been known to happen, won't be the first or the last time I'm sure.
|
|
yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
|
Post by yiceman on Apr 1, 2007 2:40:24 GMT -5
Well, as custom most generals meet face-to-face when one surrenders. Nothing to do with actually finding themselves in battle. One waves a white flag, the fighting stops, and the generals meet. I don't think Iroh tackled the man in the dirt and forced him into submission himself.
And I'm afraid, yes, a general, even one as hands-on as Iroh, does stay in the back while his armies fight. Why? Because that's intelligent. If he goes charging in, he's needlessly risking all of his knowledge of tactics and battle training. Look it up; just about every organized military had battle leaders that planned the fight, and then sat back where he could see it and make adjustments. If he was in the frontlines, he wouln't know what was going on. All of the good Iroh could accomplish is lost if he enters battle himself, and he would gain far more by staying back. As for Iroh being tired; he laid siege to a city for what, several hundred days? You don't have to be waving a spear. In fact, Iroh did more work than all of them. I'm assuming that the army worked in waves, with each unit getting time to rest between attacks, but Iroh must have been awake nearly day and night planning all of the fights, dealing with supplies, issuing orders, and all of the countless technicalities that come in running an army.
As for keeping Ozai in reserve, I'd say it does make sense, even if he is the stronger bender. Iroh looks several years older than Ozai, perhaps 15 or so, meaning he was all set up to be the next Fire Lord loooong ago. He recieved proper military training, showed himself a skilled general, and thus was sent on a long campaign. Ozai, even if he was a better firebender, would still be second in line for the throne. He likely wasn't trained in more than the most basic of military tactics, found little interest in it, and instead focused his energy in other areas. Keeping Ozai behind and sending Iroh to battle has nothing what-so-ever to do with their power at bending; it's all about age and position. Ozai's younger, so he has less responsibilities.
|
|
|
Post by demonofthewest on Apr 2, 2007 23:23:38 GMT -5
Here's your 98th karma, yiceman. Excellent points. And let's not forget, for as long as history cares to remember, princes did not fight on the front lines of the battlefield. Hell, they rarely fought at all on the battlefield. Of course, in a culture as military oriented as the Fire Nation, some royalty does take to the battlefield as a matter of honor, but it would be foolish for the royal family to risk everything and possibly kill off the entire blood line. If Iroh and Ozai both died in the battle, then Zuko would have been next in line. It's best not to have a youngster inherit the throne due to the threat of political takeovers. Funnily enough, Zuko probably would have inherited the throne at the age he is now, dependng on how long Azulon lived.
|
|
yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
|
Post by yiceman on Apr 3, 2007 15:55:27 GMT -5
Y'know, Ozai is likely the first Fire Lord since Sozin who hasn't actually held field command. I wonder if he knows military strategy at all. He seemed pretty quiet in his warroom.
|
|
|
Post by Blind Bandit on Apr 4, 2007 3:42:05 GMT -5
I don't know. Iroh seems to have very good understanding of other bending arts and I know hes the wiser of the two but I would also say hes stronger as well but I can't say for sure.
|
|
|
Post by yoshiko on Apr 7, 2007 14:53:49 GMT -5
I voted for Iroh. But I don't know.
|
|
historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
|
Post by historyman12 on Apr 9, 2007 7:31:22 GMT -5
Iroh man.
|
|
Arsid
Zhao
Pure Pwnage!
Posts: 844
|
Post by Arsid on Apr 9, 2007 14:26:48 GMT -5
I am a huge Iroh fan but I have to say Ozai as it. It may just be be that he is VERY VERY VERY intimidating but I think that the fact that he is so feared and blew up zuko's eye so ruthlessly and quickly shows that he is very powerful.
|
|
Basil
Zhao
De inimico non loquaris des cogites.
Posts: 803
|
Post by Basil on Apr 9, 2007 22:02:44 GMT -5
Intimidating yes. As for burning Zuko's eye, Ozai was showing that his rules were strict and even applied to his own family. Once a leader crosses that line, people are shocked and cower down to him.
|
|