Yang Fishy
Wolf Hakoda
Firebending General of the Zutarian Army
all that rises must fall, all that is born must die, all that is gathered will be scattered
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Yang Fishy on Mar 18, 2007 19:09:57 GMT -5
I choose Zuko. Too bad they ended on opposite sides, but it's only more fun to watch it happen nevertheless. Maybe in another lifetime they could've worked out... le sigh... Oh wait Oma and Shu were on opposite ends of the war front and they managed to pull through. Who knows? Perhaps when the wars over Zuko and Katara could be good friends if not lovers. It makes one wonder how their interactions would differ if there were no 100 year turmoil among their nations... Could they have been friends? And, to be totally honest, I don’t see the same with Zutara. I think Katara could help him with his problems and such but I’m not sure what Zuko could give to her to make the relationship equal. Well if Katara could help Zuko with his problems, as you mentioned, don't you think Zuko would be able to help with hers in return? As opposite as they may seem on the surface- Zuko and Katara share much in common. Perhaps by helping him, Katara will be able to help herself with similar turmoils such as the common loss of their mothers or their struggle with bending at a young age.
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trustno1
Happy Festival Mask
"You got served xD"
Posts: 3,838
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Post by trustno1 on Mar 18, 2007 19:50:10 GMT -5
Aang (gasp!). Their romantic feelings may not have come to full to maturity, but I'm pretty sure they will and their lovely bond is just perfect foundation for a great relationship. In due time I see them having a complete and mature partnership. And, to be totally honest, I don’t see the same with Zutara. I think Katara could help him with his problems and such but I’m not sure what Zuko could give to her to make the relationship equal. Sorry? That's a matter of opinion, if Aangs feelings for Katara actually help her anyway. Sure she gives Aang security, he has always a shoulder to lean on and she practically carries some of his responcibility for him being the only person to calm him down from the Avatar State. The only thing she wants from him is that Aang becomes the Avatar, she sees in him and that included mastering the Avatar State so she didn't have to be afraid of him and for his live, but in return Aangs crush made him refuse this deed. Kataang is one sided and only Aang is the one, who benefits from it. Zutara was way more balanced in the season finale. Katara broke down in tears and when she did Zuko has seen someone in her, who can understand him just like she started to see in him someone, who can understand her and stopped crying. It's funny that although they are enemies, they already have more in common then most persons on the show, that could be a basis for a good relationship and a truely complete partnership. Atleast imho.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 18, 2007 20:23:51 GMT -5
Or is it one sided? Yes, Katara hasn't verbally expressed how she feels for Aang but where would us shippers be if the romance was delt with already? I honestly believe that Kataang isn't one sided, especially now after rewatching seasons one and two. At first it's clear that Aang has some sort of feelings for Katara, and by the time frame of "The Fortuneteller" its grown into something deeper, but not love just yet. However, Katara showed no feelings for Aang whatsoever. By the end of that episode she had this epiphany because of Sokka's remark, no longer seeing Aang as just "a sweet little guy, just like Momo" but as probably a potential for something more. As the time goes by, to me, she seemed to warm up to the idea so by the time "Cave of Two Lovers" comes around, she's most likely developed something for him. I don't think it would be farfetched to say that Katara may have some feelings for Aang now, but then again this is all from my own interpretation.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Mar 18, 2007 20:33:06 GMT -5
Well if Katara could help Zuko with his problems, as you mentioned, don't you think Zuko would be able to help with hers in return? Hmm, point taken. Still though, I view Zutara as trustno1 does Kataang (i.e. only one person benefits from it in my case Zuko). That's a matter of opinion, if Aangs feelings for Katara actually help her anyway. Sure she gives Aang security, he has always a shoulder to lean on and she practically carries some of his responsibility for him being the only person to calm him down from the Avatar State. Aang's romantic feelings anyway. It's very clear that Aang's well being/feelings means tons to Katara and the reason she is able to calm him down from the Avatar State is because she loves him so much. No. Katara is pretty much the only person in the whole world who doesn't see Aang as Avatar Aang so I don't know how you got the conclusion Katara only wants Aang to become the Avatar. Kataang isn't one sided because without Aang she would still be at home with hardly any water bending skills. Oh, please. I admit the scene was pretty powerful but a few minuets of Zutara is hardly more balanced than a few seasons of Kataang. But...the main thing they have in common is loss and everyone has that. Plus, some of the things they have in common (i.e. their dedicated nature) go towards completely different ideals so that could end up working against them. Ditto.
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Post by rocio on Mar 18, 2007 21:24:30 GMT -5
The key phrase IS THESE ONE. There is none "their" there: the only one with romantic feelings (AND ROMANTIC ones; not motherly, or sistely, or friendly) is Aang. The feelings that Katara has displayed until now are more friendly, sisterly and motherly ones. So; I must say.......Correct that. Thair "lovely bond" is not what I can see like a good relationship: were the boys depends of the girl for to be protected and all. Aang Base all its hopes in Katara. he depends of her, and not in the good sense, she always must protect him and advising him. And as we have seen; how much he depends of her. Aang's feelings confuse his duties. Simultaneously that his feelings are confused. And what Katara is resibing; She is always the smiling one, the one that must be strong and to advised him all the time. She doesn't trust to Aang her sadness nor nothing of that to Aang, also to all the group. Because she is the motherly one, she controls all, and take care of all people there. So, Aang is in love with that Katara that is always smiling and taking care of him; not the Katara that when nobody is seeing (like we can see thanks to the camaras and the spectator focalization) is worried, sad or angry. She is, for that, like a mother who is in front of her children each time taht something bothers him: like we see in the Blind Bandit, or Bitter Work, or that she always want Aang to be the leader; so, he would have more confidence in himself. But Katara doesn't have that same consideration from Aang: Aang always depends of her for to look for a answer. But She cannot trust in Aang all her worries. She only say some little things, but only for to say some dramatics words. But she is not open up her mind: only her opinion. So, Katara with Aang, is only one part of who she is; with Aang she is the motherly Katara. Katara opened up to Zuko; with Zuko she let out all what bothers her. Because she was not as a mother to him; he was a boy older than her, a bad guy, that doesn't deserved her simpathy nor nathing. And they end up understanding each other. Zuko and Katara can understand eachother in a mature way. Because she cannot have to be the "all always smiling girl" with Zuko. She can say all what she thinks, because if she is strong or not, is not going to do anything to the mood of Zuko. Katara for first time in a lot of time, in that chapter, talked with someone like her. That isn't dependent and that can say its opinion. Well if Katara could help Zuko with his problems, as you mentioned, don't you think Zuko would be able to help with hers in return? Hmm, point taken. Still though, I view Zutara as trustno1 does Kataang (i.e. one sided and only Zuko is the one, who benefits from it). Eh, I don’t see the Kataang relationship as one sided (i.e. Katara doing all the work). Katara can and does give support but Aang brings things to the table as well. Like, helping her dreams come true, she would still be at home with hardly any water bending skills if it wasn’t for him after all, and teaching her to cut loose once in a while. And Why do you see Zutara as a ONE SIDED crush? There is none crush already: so thank you if you think that there are one. And about the last one: If you think that because she thinks that Aang is the hope of the world she has a crush on him.......... I have to say that I don't agree, think that he is the last hope doesn't mean that she has a crush on him.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 18, 2007 22:08:33 GMT -5
But Aang doesn't depend on Katara for everything. He doesn't run to her, looking for all the answers. She goes to him, and helps him find the answers to the questions that plague him. IMO, they have a wonderful bond. He's the chosen one, and she's his protector -- they confide in each other, and they're always their for each other. There isn't one side giving too much or too little, they're both giving equal amount in the relationship.
I see it from another perspective: Katara and Aang are each other's best friends, and they don't have to act differently or act in one certain way around the other. She is comforting, yes, but that's because she's giving him her support and since Katara is the "mother hen", she doesn't let herself break down in front of the others. If there comes a time when Katara breaks down in front of Aang, then I'm sure he'd do the same as she has done to him before -- give comfort.
As for Katara, Zuko, and the "breaking down" arguement, I believe she only opened up to him because she was angry. She was yelling at him, telling him all these awful things, and then (from her view point) he had the audacity to say that she "didn't know what she was talking about". So she got angry, and basically...broke down in tears. She was facing her enemy, the one who's been chasing not only her but her friends all over the world just so he could have his own happiness. She took the opportunity, he po'd her off, and then the rest is history.
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Post by rocio on Mar 18, 2007 22:35:36 GMT -5
I Know what you mean;
But If we are going to name all by its name: Aang is the hero and Katara is the mentor.
Her work is to guide the hero, advised him and all.
Katara doesn't trust so openly in Aang; all what she said is for to say advises to him. Nor because she is opening up. So, it doesn't count.
And Aang is overprotected by Katara. It doesn't matter If Aang run to her or vice versa. Aang always listens what Katara says because he need it and Katara want to help him.
Aside Katara want to help him and advise him; and always she do it with that superior position in front of him; she is his mentor. SHE IS WISER AND ALL. Not because she likes him or something like that. Thats the role of Katara; the mentor, who makes the hero do what must to do.
And about Katara being angry with Zuko thats what I mean exactly; she must let out all what bothers her and not always be the so smiling girl that is, because as we see in that episode she suffers a lot in the deep of her heart.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 18, 2007 23:22:45 GMT -5
This I agree with.
IMO, just because she hasn't opened up to him doesn't mean that she doesn't trust him. Especially when it deals with certain things like the death of someone you were really close to/cared about. It's hard to talk about those things, and I think the reason she hasn't opened up is because she doesn't want to burden Aang with her problems. He has bigger things to take care of right now, and all she can do is advise and protect him.
Hmm, I can see that. However Aang has rebelled against Katara before. In "The Avatar State" he went against her ideals because he thought it would be easier to master the AS and win the war, than taking his time mastering the elements while the rest of the world suffered. In "Avatar Day", Katara tells him that he doesn't have time to be locked up in jail, but Aang tells her that he'd rather face justice than to run away.
She's probably advising and helping him because she cares about him, and not because that's her job or her role to do so. I doubt she places herself in a superior position in front of Aang.
Oh, then I agree. She definately has to let go of all the suffering she has in her heart. I guess yelling at Zuko will probably help her see that.
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Post by rocio on Mar 18, 2007 23:31:44 GMT -5
Yea, she cares for him. I was only making the definition of the mentor XD. But the personage of Katara, is the mentor and cares for him n_n
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 18, 2007 23:41:46 GMT -5
Yea, she cares for him. I was only making the definition of the mentor XD. But the personage of Katara, is the mentor and cares for him n_n Ah, okay then! My bad. Topic wise: I'd like to see Katara with Aang. Although I wouldn't mind if her lovelife went in a "fiery" direction. We'll just have to see how it all plays out in the end.
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Mar 18, 2007 23:48:55 GMT -5
Ha. If so be the case of a fiery direct, lets hope she doesnt get "burned by love" ;D
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Mar 19, 2007 3:12:14 GMT -5
Interesting note: there seemed to be some debate on who would benefit from each relationship. Some folks said only Aang really gains anything out of Kataang, and others who say that only Zuko gains things out of Zutara.
I think the fact of the matter is that Katara dosn't really NEED a whole not, so it isn't evident what she would gain out of being in any relationships. Therefore, it is better to simply remember that, if she loves either of them, she WILL benefit from being with them, because she's happy. You don't need to GAIN anything from any relationship; if they make you happy, that's usually good enough for someone to stick around.
My own opinion---who gives a crap about what the characters want? They're fake. Whatever happens, they will be happy anyway. So, if in the end no matter the shipping out come, Zuko is happy, Katara is happy, and Aang is happy, why not try to make ME happy? And know what would make me happy? Being entertained. And what entertains me is stuff that I find interesting and compelling to watch. Oddly enough, I don't find kataang interesting. Quite the reverse, actually. Whenever they talk, I almost fall asleep, and I consider their development to be moving at a snail's pace.
Which is why I tend to lean more towards Zutara, simply because I think it would be more entertaining. That's why I can still call myself a non-shipper--I don't read zutara fanfiction or watch zutara AMVs or even dream about their first date; I just envision what kind of interaction they could have, and how they could possibly come together romantically, and I find the idea MUCH more intriguing than the continually slow crawl towards an un-compelling childhood romance that has been evident from day one. It dosn't tickle my fancy.
So basically I support Zutara like I support all my other theories; I think they would be a good idea, it would be cool to see them happen, but if something even better happens, I'll be estatic.
If zutara happens but I think it's half-assed and boring, I'll hate that ship too. If kataang becomes interesting instead of putting me to sleep, I'll support that. I don't really want to see Zuko and Katara together for the heck of it because it makes me giggly; I'm just imagining their interaction, and that would be cool to watch. I'm a completely passionless shipper; if zutara begins to bore me at all, I'll turn on it so fast it'll make your heads spin.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Mar 19, 2007 8:13:40 GMT -5
And Why do you see Zutara as a ONE SIDED crush? I don’t. I meant one sided in the sense that I only see one person benefiting from it (in this case Zuko). Again: it’s all opinion. I think Katara has at least displayed some romantic feelings for Aang. Oh, I disagree with that entirely. If she is only Mother!Katara around Aang than I doubt we have seen stuff like the Avatar State balcony scene (don’t want to make little Aang upset right?) or the ending scene in “Lake Laogai” where Katara was crying over Jet’s death and, surprise surprise, Aang’s hand was the one on her shoulder. With the mother argument said, she seemed angry at Zuko if anything. As Melis said, she was yelling at him, telling him all these awful things, and then (from her view point) he had the audacity to say that she "didn't know what she was talking about". So...she got even angrier and broke down. Not the best thing to form a healthy relationship from imo. You don't need to GAIN anything from any relationship; if they make you happy, that's usually good enough for someone to stick around. Point taken. Still, maybe it’s just because I’m a “biased Kataang zomg!!” but I can’t Katara being all that happy with Zuko. If they do fall in love and she’s happy fine but…you won’t see me hoping on that ship anytime soon.
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Post by spook on Mar 19, 2007 12:02:44 GMT -5
Thair "lovely bond" is not what I can see like a good relationship: were the boys depends of the girl for to be protected and all. Aang Base all its hopes in Katara. he depends of her, and not in the good sense, she always must protect him and advising him. And as we have seen; how much he depends of her. Aang's feelings confuse his duties. Simultaneously that his feelings are confused. And what Katara is resibing; She is always the smiling one, the one that must be strong and to advised him all the time. She doesn't trust to Aang her sadness nor nothing of that to Aang, also to all the group. Because she is the motherly one, she controls all, and take care of all people there. So, Aang is in love with that Katara that is always smiling and taking care of him; not the Katara that when nobody is seeing (like we can see thanks to the camaras and the spectator focalization) is worried, sad or angry. She is, for that, like a mother who is in front of her children each time taht something bothers him: like we see in the Blind Bandit, or Bitter Work, or that she always want Aang to be the leader; so, he would have more confidence in himself. But Katara doesn't have that same consideration from Aang: Aang always depends of her for to look for a answer. But She cannot trust in Aang all her worries. She only say some little things, but only for to say some dramatics words. But she is not open up her mind: only her opinion. So, Katara with Aang, is only one part of who she is; with Aang she is the motherly Katara. No, I disagree. The relationship has never been portrayed in such an unequal, unbalanced way. You're talking as if Katara is the one who pulls all the strings, who makes all the choices and who always has to bail Aang out of trouble. And that's just not true. Quite the opposite really, she seems to admire Aang and even explicitly states that she thinks HE should be the leader. Now, what kind of mother wants her child to be in charge? Of course she's his mentor. I'm not going to deny that. Nor am I going to deny that at times she is motherly to him. But I fail to see why people keep emhasizing this so much. Because Katara is a motherly girl (yes, even to Zuko), she has a distinctive motherly quality. And motherly girls tend to be motherly to people they care about. It doesn't automatically change them into their mother, nor does it negate the possibility of a romantic relationship between the two, nor does it define the type of relationship the two have, it just shows that they wish to take away the pain from people they care about. As for Katara not being able to open up to Aang, once again I disagree. In fact, the only relationship so far that rivals the deepness between Katara and Aang is the relationship between Zuko and Iroh. Take "The Southern Airtemple" or "The Serpent's pass", both of them show Katara openly sharing her feelings with Aang. Both know they have lost people they loved, and they have openly shared and discussed about it since the very beginning of Avatar, so really, I don't see why Zuko is such a big exception in this matter. Whoopsiedoo, he's older than Katara. So were Jet and Haru, and both of them had sympathetic moments with Katara too, but I still wouldn't call their relationships with Katara nearly as deep as the one Aang has with her. And to further elaborate on the relationship you described, the "A is totally relient and dependant on B" kinda relationship, the only one who's actually has such a relationship is Zuko. Iroh has very definately taken on a paternal role for Zuko, and he definately acts as such, always correcting him, trying to guide him and trying to force a distinct way of life upon him. So really, if you want to find an example of a "motherly" (or in this case, "fatherly") relationship, Zuko/Iroh is a much better example. And their relationship (totally disregarding romance of course) has been very different from Aang and Katara's relationship, only backing up my argument that Katara does not consider herself to be Aang's mother or acts as such. Well, that's one way to interpret it. Here's my view on the matter: Katara was ticked off at Zuko, Zuko apologizes and for once doesn't act like a total jerk, Katara, being the empathetic girl she is, opens up and starts sympathazing with him, as she has done with many people before. And, big surprise, she starts to mother him! "Come here, let me heal your scar, let me take away your pain"! She starts treating him exactly like she treats all those people she sympathizes with: in a caring, motherly way. Seriously, it's just part of character. It doesn't really matter who or what she's talking to, if he/she/it is in pain and she feels sympathy, she starts offering help and wishes to take away that pain. Aang, Sokka, Zuko, Haru, Jet, it doesn't matter, she sympathizes with all of them. It doesn't define her relationships to these individual characters, it just defines her personality. Edit: removed the last part, for the sake of keeping the peace.
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Post by Amira on Mar 19, 2007 12:34:48 GMT -5
I have a ridiculously simple answer to the whole Katara doesn't open up to Aang thing:
There is no point to it. He knows she lost her mother. She's told him. She is more then aware of the fact that he's lost his entire race. He knows and understands the loss and pain the fire nation has caused. There is no point in having a scene where the two discuss it. They understand each other very well on that issue.
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