jillrg
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Post by jillrg on Apr 14, 2008 10:52:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is about Mai that nobody else can do. I mean, sure they had their happy moments and all, but when Zuko realized that being the pampered Prince wasn't the life he wanted, how come Mai's only answer was to indulge in that lifestyle twice as much...? It kinda looks to me like she was in denial herself over Zuko having a complete change of heart...but I'm willing to discuss the matter further. Well, Zuko "realized" that the pampered prince lifestyle wasn't what he wanted when he said, "I was the perfect prince, the son my father wanted, but I wasn't me." We don't see how Mai reacts to that. Zuko could clearly feel that this lifestyle wasn't right for him long before that scene, but he never admitted it. When he was hanging out at Mai's house, he never admitted he was unhappy with everything about palace life; all he would complain about was not being invited to that meeting (after 3 years of practice, one gets good at denial). Mai's not a counselor, and Zuko hates it anyway when people try to psychoanalyze him (i.e. Iroh most of the time, the girls at the campfire). I doubt Mai would have gotten good results if she tried to make Zuko see what was really bothering him and talk him into rethinking his decision in Ba Sing Se instead of just trying her best to show how much she cares about him and how unhappy it makes her to see him unhappy. Katara, certainly, would have gotten worse results if she had ever been in a position to tell Zuko that. Maybe Song or Aang could have pulled it off...
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Ana
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Post by Ana on Apr 14, 2008 15:19:18 GMT -5
Why is it that EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GIRL on the show can do EXACTLY what Mai does, but it's only when MAI does it, it's bad? I think it’s because fandom as a whole hates Mai or, to be nicer, just doesn’t understand her. They deem her as something to similar to "cold un-feeling robot girl" and say she’s boring. What fandom fails to understand (that we know Zuko understood way back from the comic) is that her apathy is mainly a cover and when she cares about something she really cares about it. I think fandom also fails to get that Zuko pushes Mai to be less apathetic ("She just called your aura dingy. Are you gonna take that?!") so the ship mutual. I mean, sure they had their happy moments and all, but when Zuko realized that being the pampered Prince wasn't the life he wanted, how come Mai's only answer was to indulge in that lifestyle twice as much...? It kinda looks to me like she was in denial herself over Zuko having a complete change of heart...but I'm willing to discuss the matter further. Like jillrg said, I think you’re getting your time line confused. Zuko didn’t see the perfect prince wasn’t him and until the end of "Nightmares and Daydreams" and all we see is Mai taking that in. Infact, Mai is still looking at him in the big panshot. Besides, I don’t Mai has ever indulged Zuko. She does what she can for him. Unlike Iroh, she’s not full of endless old man wisdom (and even he failed on various occasions to soothe Zuko). She’s an anti-social, repressed, teenage girl. You can't really expect her to be able to perfectly deal with every emotional situation a complex person like Zuko finds himself in. Still, it's not like she's an total failure or anything, and at this point she can't be going off that much more than intuition and/or knowledge of Zuko.
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Apr 14, 2008 15:51:17 GMT -5
"Indulge Zuko" is one thing Mai would never do. She can be nice about it ("Stop worrying") or firm: "What is wrong with you?! Your temper's out of control! You blow up over every little thing! You're so impatient and hot-headed and angry!"
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Post by wildimagination on Apr 14, 2008 22:42:52 GMT -5
"Indulge Zuko" is one thing Mai would never do. She can be nice about it ("Stop worrying") or firm: "What is wrong with you?! Your temper's out of control! You blow up over every little thing! You're so impatient and hot-headed and angry!" Indulge means to satisfy, right? Anyway you have a point. Satisfying is something Toph or Katara or Jin can do. *shrug*
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jillrg
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By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Apr 14, 2008 22:48:54 GMT -5
Not exactly.
Indulge: to allow to follow one's will, to yield to an inclination; i.e. allow your boyfriend to fling a guy across the room on a whim without calling him on it, or indulge his tendency to stare off into the distance worrying and angsting.
That sort of indulgence would have been bad. I'm pretty sure Mai has otherwise indulged/satisfied in Zuko in a good way, if you know what I mean ;D
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Post by theweasleyboys on Apr 15, 2008 12:28:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure what it is about Mai that nobody else can do. I mean, sure they had their happy moments and all, but when Zuko realized that being the pampered Prince wasn't the life he wanted, how come Mai's only answer was to indulge in that lifestyle twice as much...? It kinda looks to me like she was in denial herself over Zuko having a complete change of heart...but I'm willing to discuss the matter further. Well, Zuko "realized" that the pampered prince lifestyle wasn't what he wanted when he said, "I was the perfect prince, the son my father wanted, but I wasn't me." We don't see how Mai reacts to that. Zuko could clearly feel that this lifestyle wasn't right for him long before that scene, but he never admitted it. When he was hanging out at Mai's house, he never admitted he was unhappy with everything about palace life; all he would complain about was not being invited to that meeting (after 3 years of practice, one gets good at denial). Mai's not a counselor, and Zuko hates it anyway when people try to psychoanalyze him (i.e. Iroh most of the time, the girls at the campfire). I doubt Mai would have gotten good results if she tried to make Zuko see what was really bothering him and talk him into rethinking his decision in Ba Sing Se instead of just trying her best to show how much she cares about him and how unhappy it makes her to see him unhappy. Katara, certainly, would have gotten worse results if she had ever been in a position to tell Zuko that. Maybe Song or Aang could have pulled it off... Mmm...I just got back to read this after hanging out on some other forums, so sorry I'm late! ^^; I'm easily distracted. Anywho...*looks your response over again* Aang tried talking to Zuko before, but Zuko wasn't ready to listen because it was Season 1 and he was too wrapped up in capturing Aang. The same might be said with Song for Season 2, save that Zuko was too busy trying to stay alive and stay out of the way of Sister Dear. Season 3...Zuko seems to have gotten the Avatar out of his way and is on the side of Sister Dear, but it is not enough for him because he later leaves his entire renewed life at the Palace behind, Mai included. I know that Zuko must at least respect Mai enough to let her know what he is doing and maybe also let her know that he is running away. However, why start to show them growing apart right after Zuko is allowed to sit in during the war council (minus the risk of speaking up again and getting in trouble with Ozai)? Why also did Zuko not think to ask Mai to come along? I'm a little curious to see just what that last message to her said...>.<
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jillrg
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Post by jillrg on Apr 15, 2008 15:50:24 GMT -5
Why also did Zuko not think to ask Mai to come along? I'm a little curious to see just what that last message to her said...>.< I've considered a number of possibilities about that, actually: - Practical reason: His plans were to join the Avatar. What right would he have to ask Aang and his team to accept Mai into their group? He knew he didn't even have the right to ask them to let him join their group. His mission would be difficult enough without taking his girlfriend along purely for his own happiness. But as for motivation-related reasons... - Maybe he still has self-esteem issues and doesn't believe he's worth a girl giving up her home, family, everything about her life for him. (He's probably wrong - he's the only thing Mai considers worth smiling about - but growing up constantly hearing what a failure you are, compared to your little sister on top of that, has to affect someone's image of himself and his self-worth.) Who is he to ask her to abandon everything she's been taught all her life and join the enemy for his sake? What does he have to offer her? is what he could be thinking. - Maybe he doesn't believe she'd change sides. That's what makes villain romances so complicated. "Doing the right thing" sounds natural to us, but they have a different agenda. Mai learned the same things Zuko did growing up, that the Fire Nation are the good guys doing what's best for the rest of the world. Why should Zuko believe he could convince her otherwise within a few hours? - Maybe he still has doubts about his choice. I hardly think he never looked back as he left, wondering, Am I doing the right thing? From his old point of view, he's a traitor to his home and people. We think of joining the good guys' side as something you should be proud to shout from the rooftops, but Zuko has a lifetime of reasons to be ashamed of his betrayal. And if he wasn't completely proud of changing sides, he could hardly be expected to try to win someone else over. - Maybe he wanted to prove to himself he could be unselfish and do the right thing. By the time Zuko leaves in DoBS 1, he's been disillusioned about the Fire Nation and his father. He couldn;t care less about leaving behind his father, the royal lifestyle, or anything about his new life... except Mai. That, of course, is the reason the writers couldn't have Zuko take Mai with him, to show him sacrificing something he loved to do the right thing. He didn't change sides because it was convenient or easy; thanks to Mai's presence, it hurt for him to join the right side, but he still did it. However, why start to show them growing apart right after Zuko is allowed to sit in during the war council (minus the risk of speaking up again and getting in trouble with Ozai)? Because the universe is out to make Zuko miserable. Everyone knows that. His girlfriend makes him too happy and, therefore, must be removed from the picture.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2008 0:18:04 GMT -5
jillrg- I had never thought of all those reason. I had thought of some but you out did yourself.
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Ana
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Post by Ana on Apr 19, 2008 12:37:51 GMT -5
However, why start to show them growing apart right after Zuko is allowed to sit in during the war council (minus the risk of speaking up again and getting in trouble with Ozai)? Why also did Zuko not think to ask Mai to come along? Well, I wouldn’t say they were growing apart. "Nightmares and Daydreams" has the best Maiko interaction yet. Mai is expressing herself and Zuko is confiding in with her (which is something he rarely does with anyone). The reason Zuko didn’t bring along Mai was because it would be better for the story. Zuko has to join the Gaang teach Aang fire bending and that would be less satisfying if he had to make sure Mai was accepted too. Mai has to resolve her conflict with Azula and that would be less satisfying if she could just sneak away with her boyfriend. Also, now the Maiko relationship will be more exciting. Before it was mainly just happy times but now there’s going to anger and confusion. That confusion will have to get resolved too. Probably ending in something like this.
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Maylene
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Post by Maylene on Apr 19, 2008 14:47:33 GMT -5
I like this kinda storyline between loves when they're on opposites sides of the war. It just makes it exciting like you said (angst and torn maybe between loyalty), wondering how they're gonna deal with this and so on.
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jillrg
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By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Apr 20, 2008 15:20:35 GMT -5
I agree they weren't "growing" apart as much as being forced apart by war (familiar concept).
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Maylene
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Post by Maylene on Apr 20, 2008 15:35:37 GMT -5
Yep. ^_^ Earlier you said:
But also complicated villain romances are the best IMO. Their the ones who the most difficult trials and when they get over it, it just makes it all the better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2008 1:25:06 GMT -5
I think the rest of season three will make Maiko more interesting. There was a lack of it in the trailer but it can't be ignored for long. I'm actually hopping Mai and Zuko fight each other at one point.
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Post by nymphadora on Apr 22, 2008 9:28:55 GMT -5
Umm, hey guys. I'm not a Maiko fan, but I had a question. Yesterday I was trying to convert one of my friends to be an Avatard, and she'd be the first person I have to talk about hard core Avatar stuff. So I was reading off some ships to her and explaining who they were. I had never even said any of the ship names aloud before, and Maiko stumped me. In my head, I always read Maiko as My-ko, like I read Mai as My instead of May. So is Maiko really pronounced May-ko? It just seemed awkward to me, and maybe it was just because I've been thinking it wrong forever. So.........I'd appreciate you guys answering. Thank you!
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jillrg
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By Fialleril at LJ
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Post by jillrg on Apr 22, 2008 14:38:09 GMT -5
I've always pronounced it "Maiko" in my mind. But I always pronounced Hermione "Hermy-own" until Goblet of Fire, and the correction was awkward at first in my mind, but I got used to it. Technically, "My" is an incorrect pronunciation of her name, but it's not against any rules to pronounce their ship name "My-ko." But I wouldn't worry about it feeling awkward in your mind for too long if you change now.
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