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Post by bacwas on Nov 14, 2008 19:54:51 GMT -5
I've been looking around the net and reading differing opinions about Maiko. One thing a lot of people say is that Mai has obviously forgiven Zuko at the end because of their reconcilliation. Do you think that Zuko needs forgiveness? He had a good reason for leaving Mai during the eclipse. Granted, he could have told her in person(that may have led to more complications...like wasting time on arguments with Mai, her trying to talk him out of it or(hopefully not) her telling Azula about Zuko's plans). Personally, I really don't think Zuko did anything wrong other than not explaining his decision to Mai in person. He was right in not wanting to drag her into his mess, so to speak, and endanger her.
Many people also wonder why, at the end, Mai is suddenly alright with Zuko and his so called treasonous actions against the fire nation. When did she change her mind? Or did she? While imprisoned did she do a lot of thinking? Did she have contact with the Kyoshi Warriors like Ty Lee? While talking to Zuko at The Boiling Rock, Mai didn't get why Zuko was doing what he was doing. She didn't agree with his actions.
Is Mai, because of her obvious love for Zuko, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and trust in his judgement? What does she think of the war ending and Zuko being Fire Lord and having a close bond with people Mai has attacked before?
What are your thoughts?
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
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Post by Ana on Nov 14, 2008 23:29:12 GMT -5
Do you think that Zuko needs forgiveness? Yes. For one thing, Zuko dumping Mai through a letter was a pretty awful things to do. I mean, for all Mai knew Zuko could have died right after he wrote it. Further more, Zuko thinks he needs forgiveness. He thought that Mai hated him and probably never wanted to see him again. But the fact Mai accepted him again, along with Iroh and the Gaang, will give him comfort in his days ahead. I think she changed her mind in The Boiling Rock. There she finally realized that love was greater than fear. Mai knows the Fire Nation uses fear like her princess and, while she doesn't know the Avatar gang that well, people who Zuko trust so heavily could not be that bad. And I imagine Mai got contact with the Kyoshi Warriors because her and Ty Lee were thrown in prison together. Oh, defiantly. I think The Boiling Rock was so moving because she didn't really get Zuko's reasoning much at all but Mai sacrificed for him because she loves him that much. And I think Mai is happy for him. Zuko was always meant to be Fire Lord and having friends is good for him.
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Post by bacwas on Nov 15, 2008 19:20:58 GMT -5
Another thing I've wondered about(and others have) is why Zuko didn't get Mai out of prison himself. I have a few thoughts on that. I'm pretty sure that Zuko had no idea where Mai was imprisoned or what had happened to her. Mai's uncle, on the other hand, most likely knew exactly where she was. Once news of Ozai's and Azula's defeat and the rise of Zuko came out, he must have sprung her and Ty Lee immediately. But how/why did everyone else(ie the Kyoshi warriors) get out. Did Zuko announce some kind of general amnesty for all political prisoners?
I also believe that Zuko was told(perhaps by Iroh) that his coronation should happen as soon as possible after their victory. It would be better for the fire nation to have a new leader right away....for their sense of security. So maybe Zuko just didn't have time to think about anything else.
Or maybe it's just one of those weird plot holes that tick people off.
Re Zuko and Mai's forgiveness of him. I agree that Zuko should have explained himself to Mai in person rather than in a letter. But he was "breaking up" with her for noble reasons, not to hurt her. I supposed when you're on the receiving end of the hurt like Mai was, it's hard to think logically, though. so I understand why Mai was ticked off at Zuko. Zuko was probably afraid that Mai would call him a traitor and completely disagree with him on the whole issue. He would have to explain Ozai's and Azula's plan re The /earth Kingdom to her. He would have to tell her about the fire nation's lack of honour and the imbalance in the world etc. Mai never seemed very interested in hearing that stuff.
I hope that they had a very long talk after the coronation and that Mai understands exactly what Zuko went through, why he made the decisions he did and that Zuko is indeed a hero, not a traitor to the fire nation. Methinks they must have. I can't see Mai hanging out with the gaang while still thinking the fire nation was right.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Nov 15, 2008 22:36:14 GMT -5
Another thing I've wondered about(and others have) is why Zuko didn't get Mai out of prison himself. See, the thing is that Mai can rescue herself. And what she did for Zuko was an act of sacrifice so that he could do what he needed to do. If Zuko looked away from his cause to go on a rescue mission would disrespect her ability to look after herself, and make her sacrifice pretty pointless. I'm thinking Mai asked her Uncle to pull some strings for them too. Ty Lee saved her life and the Kyoshi Warrios are her new friends. I don't see any reason why Mai (or Zuko, if he leashed some kind of degree) wouldn't want to help them. I think so too. You're right that Mai wouldn't be making friends with the Gaang if she still thought the Fire Nation was right. Also, after what happened in The Boiling Rock Zuko realized keeping things from Mai to protect her really ended up hurting her. So, he'll tell her everything after that.
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Post by bacwas on Nov 16, 2008 9:08:52 GMT -5
When I question Zuko not getting Mai out of prison, I mean after the battle's over and Ozai's defeated. I understand it would be defeating the purpose to turn around and go back to The Boiling Rock to try and find Mai right after Zuko, Sokka etc escaped.
I agree that Mai can look after herself. I love that Zuko is quite proud of that fact too.
And yep, I also see Zuko being very open with Mai from now on. She's proven a great depth of love for the guy and deserves openness(it should work both ways, of course).
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Nov 20, 2008 21:41:43 GMT -5
Re Zuko and Mai's forgiveness of him. I agree that Zuko should have explained himself to Mai in person rather than in a letter. Zuko was probably afraid that Mai would call him a traitor and completely disagree with him on the whole issue. I see that as he thought that if he told her in person, he wouldn't have been able to go through with it and leave her. Like when the guy tells his lover not to see him off at the airport because if she's there, he won't get on the plane. When I question Zuko not getting Mai out of prison, I mean after the battle's over and Ozai's defeated. My personal theory: He didn't have the heart to face her. He was so sure his uncle hated him after he betrayed him ("My uncle hates me, I know it"); he had the same feelings about Mai. He thought she hated him for leaving her, especially after she stood y his side like his uncle did and saved him, so he just gave the order to release her and tried to focus on his coronation rather than losing her, as he believed. But then she shows up at his room on her own, showing she still loves him ("So does this mean you don't hate me anymore?" - I think their "I don't hate you" thing is so sweet btw), still considers him her "boyfriend," and forgives him, to his immense joy. So much that all signs of pain from his injuries just vanish at the sound of her voice, which might be my favorite part of that scene btw. Aside: I actually like watching clips of the Season 3 trailer on Youtube that have the squeeing in the background at the moment of our first Maikout (the first one we saw, that is).
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Post by bacwas on Nov 21, 2008 20:11:47 GMT -5
You and I are alike then because I love watching those trailers with the people screaming in the background too. I get such a kick out of them. I have them bookmarked....... I like your theories, especially the one about the letter. Mai is the one person in the Fire Nation he has any love for and would miss. So maybe he would have had a much harder time leaving if he went to see her and talk about his plans. It also never occurred to me that Zuko might just have been afraid to face Mai. You're right that he tends to think people(ie Iroh) will hate him and hate him forever for his screw ups. It makes sense that he thought Mai was through with him and would want nothing to do with him at all. Zuko's just an optimist like that. And that scene where they reunite is really sweet and beautiful.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Dec 27, 2008 23:49:19 GMT -5
When I question Zuko not getting Mai out of prison, I mean after the battle's over and Ozai's defeated. I understand it would be defeating the purpose to turn around and go back to The Boiling Rock to try and find Mai right after Zuko, Sokka etc escaped. Oh. Well, then I would say Zuko didn't have the time to do that. I mean, when Mai reunites with him it couldn't have been more than a day after Aang defeated Ozai. The palace city was still burned and the servants Azula banished weren't back yet. Heh, I love those too. I got the Season 3 DVD boxset for Christmas and on the special features disk there was a recording of San Diego Comic Con 07. It's got the early season three trailer and I'm happy to report they kept the screams. I was quite gleeful when I heard those screams when they saw the first Maiko kiss. Also, on said DVD boxset Mike and Bryan do auto commentary for Sozin's Comet. At the end, they say some pretty sweet things about Maiko. They said that they know it isn't the fandom's favorite but they like it. They thought it was cute that Mai and Zuko liked each other since they were kids and ended up together after all the bad stuff that happened.
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Post by bacwas on Dec 28, 2008 20:22:20 GMT -5
Yep, I have the dvd boxset as well and have heard the commentary. It is sweet that childhood crushes/young budding love survived three years of separation and came out incredibly strong in the end.
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Post by wildimagination on Jan 6, 2009 19:53:32 GMT -5
I saw a similar thread at the Kataang Forever forums, but with Kataang and not Maiko, and I thought it'd be fun if we named Mai and Zuko's kids.
If it's a girl, I'd say Ursa after Zuko's mom.
For a boy, I'd say either Iroh or Lu Ten after Zuko's uncle and cousin. Or Chiyo which means "fire" in either Chinese or Japanese. Or Shen meaning either "firstborn son" or "firstborn".
What do you guys think?
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Post by bacwas on Jan 7, 2009 21:37:17 GMT -5
Hmmm, I don't really like the name Ursa, but I can see Zuko wanting to name a daughter after his beloved mother.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jan 26, 2009 19:13:31 GMT -5
I don't particularly like the name Ursa either. Like bacwas, I believe Zuko would want to name his daughter after his mother but I think he and Mai should be more original with names. Actually, an artist on DA named Mayeko has this universe with the Gaang's called Gaang Jr.. The whole thing/the Maiko kid is pretty awesome. <3
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Post by bacwas on Jan 26, 2009 20:18:57 GMT -5
What about the name Keiko for a girl(I got that from Star Trek: Deep Space 9)...it rhymes with Mai and ends with ko like Zuko.
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Post by bacwas on Apr 21, 2009 17:29:13 GMT -5
I love this screencap of them. Zuko looks back and gives Mai a little smile because he's happy that he's been invited to that stupid war meeting. And Mai really just wants him to be happy.
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HeartofFire
Haru
Or should I say, he used to be torn...
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Post by HeartofFire on May 2, 2009 11:49:01 GMT -5
Yep, that is a nice screencap. Hmm, I like the name Keiko. (Actually, I have a Japanese friend with that name.) In a fanfic I read, Zuko and Mai's kids were named (i think) Maiko and Lu Zuo. I don't really have a preference about names, though. I personally like the name Ursa, but I kind of want to keep that name just for Zuko's mother, who will probably be back as soon as he finds her. I agree about the childhood crushes thing--one of my favorite things about Maiko is that there was always something there, at least on Mai's side, and it's so beautifully angsty how she basically lost him after Zuko was banished, and then kind of lost him again when he left in DOBS.
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