pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Dec 21, 2007 3:53:50 GMT -5
You shouldn't have mentioned that. I've been debating with other fans about that for a week now, and my constant refrain is: none of the Gaang had any reason to believe that Zuko was being sincere and not leading them into a trap of some kind.
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Post by mahatista on Dec 21, 2007 3:57:41 GMT -5
Roku expects Aang to redeem him. I wish he'd say in what way. What does Aang need to do differently? Or does he just mean that Aang needs to win the war that Roku's negligence helped start? Does he mean personal contentment for the avatar, while definitely possible is secondary to the cause of balance? Or does he mean 'don't you dare trust that double-crossing son-of-a-fire-lord!' EDIT: Spoilers removed.I just remembered the spoiler bars. These are illegal details we're using!!!
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Dec 21, 2007 4:04:27 GMT -5
pg, Spoilers removed.
EDIT:
Thanks for the reminder, mahatista ^^;
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 21, 2007 4:38:39 GMT -5
Sozin only started his war plans after Roku died; Roku had nothing to ignore in choosing a peaceful life on his island (which was pretty close to the Fire Nation shores anyway). As for the Avatar State, well, like I said, it is powerful, but it's also ridiculously dangerous. If Ozai gets in one lucky shot... Aang needs to master the 4 elements, and I really mean MASTER them. Chasing after the Avatar State is not what he should be doing right now. It's too dangerous. If Ozai got off that lucky shot we'd be doomed Avatar State or no Avatar State. The AS doesn't make Aang easier to kill. In fact, given his increased powers, it makes him harder to kill. Unless someone sneaks up behind you. Increased bending =/=psychic powers. Azula and Ozai can shoot someone in the back even if they aren't in the Avatar State ;p As for the end of the Avatar Cycle...well we're pretty much doomed anyway. The reason that the Avatar survived was because the Fire Nation knew he hadn't been found and killed, so they knew he hadn't become a waterbender. If Aang is killled...don't tell me they won't wipe out the entire water tribe just to avoid a new Avatar. But anyway. I'm pretty convinced that the earthly attachments thing just means that the Avatar has to LEARN to let go. He has to have the capability to mentally set priorities. Roku proves that it doesn't require relinquishing one's love live. All the same, before the end, I think we will need a scene that shows Aang willingly abandoning Katara in order to pursue is duties. And no...CoD doesn't count. He did that to save HER. He tried letting her go to save her, not the world.
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Post by marvel26 on Dec 21, 2007 5:05:24 GMT -5
Sozin only started his war plans after Roku died; Roku had nothing to ignore in choosing a peaceful life on his island (which was pretty close to the Fire Nation shores anyway). As for the Avatar State, well, like I said, it is powerful, but it's also ridiculously dangerous. If Ozai gets in one lucky shot... Aang needs to master the 4 elements, and I really mean MASTER them. Chasing after the Avatar State is not what he should be doing right now. It's too dangerous. If Ozai got off that lucky shot we'd be doomed Avatar State or no Avatar State. The AS doesn't make Aang easier to kill. In fact, given his increased powers, it makes him harder to kill. Unless someone sneaks up behind you. Increased bending =/=psychic powers. Azula and Ozai can shoot someone in the back even if they aren't in the Avatar State ;p As for the end of the Avatar Cycle...well we're pretty much doomed anyway. The reason that the Avatar survived was because the Fire Nation knew he hadn't been found and killed, so they knew he hadn't become a waterbender. If Aang is killled...don't tell me they won't wipe out the entire water tribe just to avoid a new Avatar. But anyway. I'm pretty convinced that the earthly attachments thing just means that the Avatar has to LEARN to let go. He has to have the capability to mentally set priorities. Roku proves that it doesn't require relinquishing one's love live. All the same, before the end, I think we will need a scene that shows Aang willingly abandoning Katara in order to pursue is duties. And no...CoD doesn't count. He did that to save HER. He tried letting her go to save her, not the world. I did not realise that last bit. Thanks for the insight. And as for the rest. Yes, I completely agree with you there. I suppose to put it simply, Aang just needs to grow up.
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Post by mahatista on Dec 21, 2007 10:47:15 GMT -5
I never meant to suggest he couldn't marry based on Roku's admission of screw-up. I just wonder if Roku feels now that he didn't have his priorities in order and missed it because of that.
And for the rest of what you said Yice: yes.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Dec 21, 2007 11:02:53 GMT -5
Interrupting this discussion to state this: Even in spoiler bars, you can't discuss the episodes. XP
Sorry guys. ^^;;
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Dec 21, 2007 11:23:05 GMT -5
And no...CoD doesn't count. He did that to save HER. He tried letting her go to save her, not the world. That’s nitpicking the situation. Point is: Aang was willing to let Katara go. Another point made: one good shot at Aang while he’s in the Avatar State and the Avatar is gone. Forever. I suppose to put it simply, Aang just needs to grow up. I think is Aang is growing up just fine. Honestly, you guys make it seem like every time something bad happens Aang runs to Katara with a quivering lip. No, it’s Katara that goes Aang. She starts the comforting and she looks to him for the final say. Actually, going by "The Awakening", she looks up to him just as she does her father.
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Post by luthien on Dec 21, 2007 11:34:08 GMT -5
I think they actually both turn to each other, but if I had to put a numerical quantity on it, I'd say Aang turns to Katara far more than she turns to Aang. But that's probably just a function of her personality.
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Post by marvel26 on Dec 21, 2007 11:49:57 GMT -5
I don't mean that he goes crying to mommy everytime he has a boo boo.
What I meant was he needs to develop a sense of priority and responsiblity, or at least a better one.
The world comes before him and his personal life and such. That sort of thing.
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Post by Amira on Dec 21, 2007 14:16:06 GMT -5
Okay, (and I know this hasn't been brought up yet, but this discussion sort of leads to it IMO)...
Everyone is talking about how Aang needs to grow up. Learn responsibility, prioritize. People expect him to accept responsibilities and think like an adult. To assume a role that was meant for someone older. To make decisions like someone older. But I know there are people who because of his age say he's not ready or able to have a relationship with someone. Well isn't that just a bit of a double standard.
And he is going through this whole process with no guidance, except the occasinal visit from Roku. He has no one to turn to but those he trusts and has no support system but them. He relies on the support and love of others. I don't think he would've made it as far as he has without it. His teachers are children like he is. He is an Avatar who has had to adapt himself to his situation in a way that no previous Avatar has had to do (so far as we know). We know it is important to him to be the Avatar. We know he has accepted the task. And he is going to continue to look to them not just because they are important personally, but because he is 100% sure that they are his allies and the ones he trusts.
Katara specifically is made out to be a hindrance to him by fans, yet she is the one who has encouraged him, loved him, and given him the ability to believe in himself in a task that he has been a large part of the time been left to figure out for himself.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Dec 21, 2007 14:26:54 GMT -5
I think they actually both turn to each other, but if I had to put a numerical quantity on it, I'd say Aang turns to Katara far more than she turns to Aang. But that's probably just a function of her personality. I really like to see the data for this numerical quantity. Also, what exactly do you mean by "turns to"? It's very vague. And Analeisa said basically what I wanted to say regarding the Avatar State; yes, Aang will probably die regardless, but at least another Avatar will still exist, and thus given a chance to survive, even if the Fire Nation goes down hard on the Water Tribes. Finally, about the responsibility thing...well, easier said than done. I've seen plenty of grown ups acting as "child-like" as Aang...heck, even more child-like I'd say. Overall I think Aang is dealing with his situation in life extremely well...I'd like to see you try it.
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Post by luthien on Dec 21, 2007 16:40:55 GMT -5
Hmm... when I mean "turns to," I mean for emotional support. And it's true, Aang relies heavily on Katara for this, while Katara seems to hold it together and soldier on in most cases save a few ("The Awakening" and "The Puppetmaster" come to mind). But again, I think that's just a function of Katara's personality, which Sokka mentions in "The Runaway."
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 21, 2007 18:13:20 GMT -5
@ana--No, it's not nitpicking. Aang didn't let Katara go to save someone else, he did it to save her. How does that, in any way, count? He didn't do it right.
As for the rest, the Avatar's duty is to maintain balance. If Aang dies, no matter what, and the comet comes, that's pretty much the end. How can there be no balance with zero airbenders or waterbenders and the entire earth kingdom enslaved? By the time the earth Avatar comes around, he'll be getting the full blast of Fire Nation propaganda and used as a weapon. So...no matter what Aang needs to win.
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Post by aangxchild on Dec 21, 2007 18:29:58 GMT -5
psylum, well, that's just my personal preference. I'm not saying Aang isn't mature. He's very mature for a kid his age, but like it was argued a couple of pages back, I wouldn't want to see a twelve year old involved in a serious romantic relationship. Not because he isn't mature enough, but because that's just what I feel. Things like Zutara DO happen in real life, I think I should point out, just like Kataang ALSO happen in real life. I just see Taang Zutara as being more epic, just like you Kataangers see it the other way around Respectable. Its true, that things do happen like that. I'm a strong believer in there isn't such a thing as love at first site. But we all have our opinions on that matter. I have the same kind of feelings about Maiko as well, kind of a build up, but then my thoughts wonder about that, since we didn't see what happened during the time Aang was sleeping.
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