clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Jan 14, 2007 22:55:27 GMT -5
wow you guys are coming up with great theories. this topic is getting interesting^_^
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 14, 2007 23:38:35 GMT -5
The way I heard it, the earthbender we see in the intro was originally Aang's teacher, which, if this is true, means that this character was still around by the time they had made the intro. This does make sense because we already got an early glimpse at Azula and Pakku in the intro.
I heard they changed this male character to a girl because they decided that adding another boy character would make the gAang too male heavy. So they changed the guy to Toph to balance things out.
Granted this is all just rumor, but it's a believeable rumor.
On another note: Toph befriended Iroh, but she didn't know he was a firebender at the time. Would she have sat with him originally had she known who he really was when they met?
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sladance
Iroh
Toph Fan and Zuko Fangirl
Devoted Taang shipper!
Posts: 193
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Post by sladance on Jan 15, 2007 9:36:07 GMT -5
At that time, Toph was pretty new to the Gaang and had nothing against firebenders. Did she know about the war when she was with her parents? Probably not, seeing how overprotective they were. It's like the Earth King. If a fire bender was to walk in to the palace, he wouldn't take them as a threat, considering he had no clue about the war before Aang told him.
Does Toph even know that Iroh is a firebender now? I don't think so, but correct me if I am wrong.
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Zink
Ty Lee
"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
Posts: 4,279
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Post by Zink on Jan 15, 2007 10:00:10 GMT -5
Interesting idea... though I think Toph, being blind, is blissfully unaware of things like national prejudgice because she simply can't see what color someone's armor is or how they cut their beard or whatever. She knows Iroh is a good person, and I don't see any reason for her to particularly care about where he came from.
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Post by lunauc on Jan 15, 2007 14:49:20 GMT -5
Agreed. I doubt Toph would base her feelings toward people on their nationality. Especially since unlike Sokka and Katara, she has no previous grudge against the Fire Nation. She judges people mostly from the vibe she gets from them. To her Iroh is simply a kind, wise old man. And since she knows when people are being dishonest, she know's he truly is what he seems.
How do you beat a built in lie detector?
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Jan 16, 2007 3:45:02 GMT -5
yeah toph is definitely a good judge of character. and i agree with you guys.
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Post by volcomxreckless on Jan 16, 2007 20:30:18 GMT -5
Wow this is pretty cool. The only problem with the MoMo one is that MoMo is around Katara a lot as well.
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sladance
Iroh
Toph Fan and Zuko Fangirl
Devoted Taang shipper!
Posts: 193
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Post by sladance on Jan 17, 2007 14:52:45 GMT -5
^Yes, but Momo is on Toph's shoulder more than Katara's.
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Post by machina on Jan 17, 2007 17:54:50 GMT -5
Toph befriended Iroh, but she didn't know he was a firebender at the time. Would she have sat with him originally had she known who he really was when they met? Maybe, maybe not. However, Toph doesn't have the personal turmoil or bias regarding Fire Nation / firebenders the other members of the gAang do. Iroh didn't present himself in a hostile manner to her, but was very friendly. By the end of "The Chase" I do think she figured out who and what he was, despite that, she still calls him her "friend" in "The Crossroads of Destiny". So Toph is the only one in the gAang, apart from Aang who had a friend in Fire Nation (at least he did once), who has made a friendship that wasn't referenced in just one episode, but two now. Very different from most of the other members of the gAang. Which stands to reason that if anyone is going to be the most welcoming of a firebender in the group and/or who would probably provide Aang access to a firebending teacher, it would probably be through Toph. Especially if that firebender is Iroh, her "friend".
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Post by krissykay on Jan 18, 2007 8:12:50 GMT -5
Thats a good point. I've noticed the Momo thing as well, but also with his staff- he gives it to her to hold alot, but I don't think I've seen Aang give his staff to any one else. (Because well all know how important it is to him) I could just be crazy. But yeah I absolutely agree with the swamp and it's similarities to the one in the spirit world. Like the tree of life, and the tree of death, and Aang chasing Toph, and Aang chasing an orb-like spirit, and Koh, and Hue, both having similiarties with the Noe masks and all.
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Post by lunauc on Jan 18, 2007 12:58:35 GMT -5
I'm bored. So I'm going to go ahead and throw in a wild theory extension based off of some information Machina gave me, and I hope he doesn't mind.
"Also, swamps/marshes/mangroves in general are also considered sacred places in Hinduism/Yoga due to it being the origin of the Lotus, the most sacred plant for Buddhists and Hindus (the Crown Chakra - the 7th Chakra - is also called the Thousand-Petalled Lotus)."
I replied to him that this brought to mind the White Lotus society to which Iroh belonged, to which he pointed out that there really was such a society in ancient China, based around a religious/political sect. Though it probably has a different meaning in the Avataraverse, I was wondering, why specifically a White Lotus? It could be simply a comparison to the real world White Lotus, which partook in protests against foreign control in China, much as the Avatarverse White Lotus may be against spread of the fire nation into other countries, or some such political reasoning. However, a smaller and crazier idea struck me in this matter. When Aang sees Toph in the swamp, rather being dressed in her regular green and yellow garb, which she is most comfortable in and Aang first witnesses her in, she is instead wearing a White Gown, similar to the greenish-fringed white orb he chases in SotN. Why White?
Bom-bom-BBBOOMMMMM!!!
EDIT: Did a bit more research. Apparently in china certain colors of clothing were associated with certain seasons. Green for spring, red for summer, White for autumn, Black for winter.
Now if, you correspond the seasons which have passed through in Avatar, they started out in Winter, which was Book 1: Water. Then into season two it's turning to spring, Book Two: Earth. And Book three is heading into Summer, presumably the season Fire, thus making Autumn Air.
So, Toph generally where's green, corresponding to Spring, the season of Earth. Yet in the Swamp vision, she appears in White, the color of Autumn/Air.
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Post by machina on Jan 18, 2007 14:09:59 GMT -5
"I hope she doesn't mind" and I don't. White, more popularly in Eastern cultures, is also a color of death. Thus why in Azulon's funeral all the mourners are wearing white. Notably, Yue's hair (a character essentially living on borrowed time, at least in the mortal realm), was stark white, the color also likely ties into her correlation with the moon. As noted, Aang was chasing a white orb in SOTN, it slipped through his fingers, but it brought him to the vision of Roku - the firebender Avatar before him - in the water (who told him about Koh, yada yada). It's possible the white orb Aang was chasing could be a symbol of the moon, a feminine symbol. The most important feminine symbols in Aang's life are his friends, Katara and Toph.... and we're already hinted both could slip through his fingers (Aang may lose Katara - at least as a representation of her apparently being an "Earthly attachment" - via the chakra/Pathik hinting in CoD and Toph possibly through death as described below. Incidentally, as I was suggesting earlier, like the white orb in SOTN, Toph may lead Aang to a firebender, in this case, Iroh as the very possible new firebending teacher). Toph, being tied to the vision in the swamp and as the linked theory suggests in the first post, has often been speculated as having death foreshadowing. As the swamp visions were of "people [they] lost, people [they] loved" and Aang had a vision of Toph.
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Yang Fishy
Wolf Hakoda
Firebending General of the Zutarian Army
all that rises must fall, all that is born must die, all that is gathered will be scattered
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Yang Fishy on Jan 18, 2007 14:20:37 GMT -5
This theory of yours is brilliant, Lunauc! Somehow it has managed to rekindle the TophxAang fire that has been lost within me for so long... Like you, I was also left wondering when the swamps theme of 'People we loved...People we lost..' was going to be emphasized with Toph's appearance. One thing has been left unanswered though. Before Aang even encountered Toph and her protector, the flying boar, or Hue in the swamp he was faced with a giant tornado that brought him crashing down into the swamp: Strangely enough, the mystery of who conjured the very powerful tornado was never solved... Could this have been a greater Spirit's doing? Or did fate have something to do with this.
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Post by lunauc on Jan 18, 2007 14:20:50 GMT -5
Toph, being tied to the vision in the swamp and as the linked theory suggests in the first post, has often been speculated as having death foreshadowing. As the swamp visions were of "people [they] lost, people [they] loved" and Aang had a vision of Toph. Not necessarily, since you have to take into effect the state of the swamps and the characters mentioned there in. In SotN, the swamp is dead, and they speak of the former Avatar and his lost love. Everything about it remarks an end of that incarnation. That form of the Avatar has past and with it any hope of a future. His world is dead. However, in the Swamp, the swamp is green and alive, and rather than chasing a ghostly orb, he's chasing a lively and active Toph. The Avatar who lost his love to Koh's world is dead. But Aang and Toph are still alive and well. Thus it can be considered the end of one era and the beginning of another respectively. And, sorry about the "he" comment. Oh, one more fun factoid I thought up. What brings Aang and the Gang down into the swamp is a great big ol' tornado, a meteorologically event which is said to connect the earth to the sky(air).
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Post by machina on Jan 18, 2007 14:42:44 GMT -5
Oh, one more fun factoid I thought up. What brings Aang and the Gang down into the swamp is a great big ol' tornado, a meteorologically event which is said to connect the earth to the sky(air). You and fairysgift seem to be on a similar wavelength. Heh. Considering the above, something Hue says in "The Swamp" is also rather interesting. "Time is an illusion and so is death." Time and death are quite literally illusions to the Avatar, as Hue highlights with, "You're the Avatar, you tell me." Aang has been many times dead and reincarnated (connected to all of his past lives, but isn't necessarily any one of them either). He has ties to past, present and future. Perhaps it's also worth noting the tragic lovers in "The Cave of Two Lovers" - Oma and Shu - were Earthbenders (apparently the first earthbenders. The Adam and Eve of Earthbending, heh). The one and only love story we're ever told of the past Avatars (as yet) is also another tragic one of separation, the story Koh told Aang about his love from 800/900 years ago and the attempted revenge. I'm not sure how exactly this might effect Aang, but I wouldn't put tragedy past his character. Although tragedy might not necessarily come from a loss of Toph, as you speculated above (there does, however, seem to be a set-up for tragedy regarding Aang's love of Katara, the obstacle of "Earthly attachment" and the opening of the 7th Chakra).
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