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Post by mahatista on Oct 7, 2007 22:59:42 GMT -5
@blue chibi: I think I've found books more able to hold things together all the way through an arc. I was more referring to the LotR movies. I thought they did a good job of pulling it together in the end, especially with such a vast and strange work. The adaptation was really good but they kept it pretty well on course. Although even with that a lot of people hated the ending(s) and were pretty vocal about it.
It seems to me that storytelling for TV and film is difficult for lots of reasons, not the least of which is the studio and outside pressure that meddles in the narrative way more than in any other artform. But I get the sense that Avatar, especially having a powerful ally like M. Night Shmyalan (I really can't think of how to spell his name right now) doesn't have that difficulty to the extent that others do. Especially if they sold the series based on an outline of all three seasons.
Anyway, you've inspired me to keep my hopes up, Blue Chibi. Thanks!
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Silver-Angel!
Meng
"Time is a great teacher. To bad it kills all of it's students."
Posts: 253
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Post by Silver-Angel! on Oct 8, 2007 17:40:34 GMT -5
Wait this episode was filler? Does that mean this season is lasting longer 20 episodes? It should, especially if this the last season. I was actually going to say that in this episode nothing really happened. It was kind of dissapointing, because from the previews and trailers it looked like the painted lady was going to be some sort of master at something, like with Jeong Jeong and Pakku. Oh well, I suppose that clears things up.
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Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Firework on Oct 8, 2007 19:32:31 GMT -5
You know, I think "The Painted Lady" could have been an actual good episode not accused of filler-ness if it had one actual theme.
Do they want us to save the environment? Should we steal and hurt the people who pollute the environment? You should help every single poor person you come across instead of focusing on the main problem of the suffering? Or (the random one) not wait for a godly figure to save you (they only mentioned this at the very end). All these themes were struggling to get across while Katara was active.
Was she being a superhero? Was she she just being a good person? What the heck was she really doing? She didn't think things through at all which makes us (or at least me) wonder how little kids are going to react to such a nice but passionate young girl who blows up factories, steals, poisons (Appa WAS sick, even if Katara didn't use a literal poison), and lies.
They couldn't focus on one theme or show Katara in anything less than holy light; if she had actually been punished for the radical things she did then that would be okay but all of her actions were taken as "She's so caring and selfless we can't punish her, she did help us so everything is alright- not to mention those factory people were all evil." I am not trying to bash Katara, only how she is being used by the creators; I can't comment on this episode without coming back to her since she was so important.
Katara needs to take to heart: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life". They should have actually said this in the episode.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 8, 2007 19:57:03 GMT -5
Firework, you know I've been upset by the detractors... but you've actually got some really good points in there. You're right, they should have said those things. I still found the episode very beautiful and moving. @ maha: true, books are better able to keep it together, mostly because they're not usually written by committee. LotR I had promised myself not to watch just yet, so I'm not sure what you mean on the ending (but that's fine ~ I'd rather stay in the dark on that for now). I'm glad your hopes are up... I may come crawling mid-season and need an injection of faith, myself.
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Post by Avatar Kuruk on Oct 8, 2007 20:38:10 GMT -5
OMG what a great episode, I was not expecting Katara to be the painted lady. Hahaha i actually didn't realize it was her when they revealed her healing the people. Guess I'm a little slow. lol
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Post by suppai on Oct 9, 2007 2:19:37 GMT -5
Firework: I agree with you on every point. I really hated this episode and thought it's message lacked logic (among many things). The fact that Katara put the village in danger and risked thier mission wasn't really addressed in the way it should of. One thing I love about Avatar is that unlike other cartoons and anime it shows consicences of actions and reality of stupid decisons. when someone dies there's no bringing them back to life. but I think they dropped the ball on that concept in this episode, it's as though they were saying "look kids, you can have your cake and eat it too!"
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tg
FN Toph
The mysterious lurker of Musogato
Posts: 1,684
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Post by tg on Oct 9, 2007 4:39:50 GMT -5
^ Eh, I don't really think much into this part of the conscience at all. I mean, yes, Avatar does deal with actions/punishment several times but keep in mind that this is a show for everyone. Still on the premise that it's good vs. evil.
So, who goes down in this ep? Evil, of course. Also realistically speaking, I don't think those villagers could do much without Katara's help. It was also a bit realistic of Katara doing things without thinking. I mean, many of us have done stuff without thinking and we end up in bad situations. In those bad situations, many of us have gone out of them alive. Even though Katara did some bad stuff, the point was about the villagers' happiness. Would they still be happy if the factory was in-tact?
Edit: And if Katara was punished for what she's done, I believe her punishment has already made up for itself. Helping the villagers to clean up the water was more than enough to make up for what she's done. ^__^
I think many of the villagers would die if Katara didn't blow up that factory. If they cleaned up the water first, then go destroy the factory, those FN guards would still come to the village to see who done it. Works both ways to me.
At this moment, I did enjoy the episode a lot more than I expected. Even though I know what Katara was up to before watching it but just watching it for real, touched me a lot. Katara made a selfish careless move into the night but that alone, gave some hope for the villagers.
I found two concrete themes in this episode. One, which is very clear, is the pollution. Second theme, don't wait for people to come help you. If you want something done, do it yourself. For me, it wasn't really about helping the poor. It was helping the poor to take better care of themselves. Once you know that the poor can handle stuff themselves, it's better to leave them be. ^_^ So, I can understand Firework's confusion on the themes but I don't see how they can be that confusing at all.
In terms of this episode being filler or not.... I'd say, it served its purpose clearly as it is. Just like a manga book. Main story main story side story side story side story --- goes back to main story main story ----- side story side story. It's nice to be main story-cetric but from how I'm seeing it, I think the creators want to see some character-centric episodes first before the main event. And yet, I think they all still connect to the main story in a way.
"The Headband" - Aang and everyone gets disguises which affects the first few set of episodes. "The Painted Lady" - Katara --> Show us what other parts of the FN is like and what the govenment has done. Meaning, they don't care about the welfare of the poorer people. "Sokka's Master" -of course. --> Lotis tile connection. "The Beach" - Zuko, Mai, Azula, Ty Lee, Aang, Sokka, Toph, Katara, and Combustion Man (ooh noo) --> "The Avatar and the Firelord" - Roku, Aang, Sozin, Zuko --> Main story definite focus here.
Just wondering which one of these will be the Toph-centric episode, eh?
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Oct 9, 2007 10:43:07 GMT -5
TG: bingo. i agree with pretty much all you said.
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Post by anitajob on Oct 9, 2007 12:27:28 GMT -5
I'm surprised at how much hate this episode is getting from people who call themselves Avatar fans. It had everything a great Avatar episode has: comedy, surprises, character development, action, and a moral.
One thing I noticed in the episode is Aang's admiration for Katara's willingness to do whatever is necessary to help people, even lying to her own friends. I think this stem's from's Aang's guilt - he lied to his friends on many occasions to protect himself, Katara lied for the greater good. That quality of Katara's appeals to Aang greatly.
Another thing was Sokka's willingness to go along with Katara and Aang once it was clear they were not going to abandon the town to the Fire Nation's wrath. A good leader knows when to follow.
Lastly, although they did help the town, they undoubtedly alerted the FN to their presence or something strange going on within the FN's borders. Factories don't just blow themselves up. Azula/Zuko will pick up on this strange occurence and begin tracking their movements within the FN.
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Post by Alouncara on Oct 9, 2007 12:43:18 GMT -5
I think it had more a Plot to it than you guys think...
The Spitirt visited Katara at the end said 'Thank you...' and floated away... I am betting that the Painted Lady could hold more a Purpose to the Plot than you think (The mini Vacations were an example, never wo0uld you think they'd lead to such a big part into the Plot!)
I doubt that is the last we see of her... Katara cleaned her river, she saved the town, healed the sick and detroyed what was polutting the village! I think that spirit is probably gonna hold more than we can guess...
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wabbit
penguin
"Thank you for the tea. It was delicious."
Posts: 20
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Post by wabbit on Oct 9, 2007 16:34:26 GMT -5
Does anyone know where I can find this episode? Nick.com is so terribly difficult to navigate, but from what I can tell this episode isn't up there. I'd prefer to know when these things repeat, but Nick doesn't seem to want to tell us that, either.
So someone who can tell me where I can see this episode will earn my eternal thanks!
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 9, 2007 21:53:55 GMT -5
ARG! Missed this on Friday since YTV decided to appease the Pokemon maniacs. Ah well, I was too busy and sick at the time to watch this with a sound frame of mind anyway. I thought this was a pretty good episode, although it did indeed feel like filler material. Still, with Avatar, filler doesn't mean much in terms of enjoyment. As always, there were moments of great humor that had me laughing out loud, and the whole revealing of who the Painted Lady was and the whole factory and end fight scenes were really well done and had me on the edge of my seat. Obviously, this was a Katara episode, and except for a little snerk at the end when she kinda went into Imprisoned mode, I thought it was great! It fits her character, really. She mothers everything, be it Aang, Sokka, or a village. I sort of see where the Mary Sue talks have been coming from, but I disagree in every way possible. She reminds me of the type of person who does all she can to help the world, but inside she's a mess because she's neglected herself. We saw an inkling of this in "The Awakening", for instance. What I don't get, is how Katara came up with the idea. Did she find out about the myth of the Painted Lady before Shu showed them the statue and told them everything? They never really explained that. Ah well, a small plot hiccough that I can take. I really liked the little chase scene between Aang and Katara as he attempts to track her down. He seemed so...innocent, I guess. He went through all his motions of being an Avatar, being the bridge, etc. And of course, another Kataang moment when he told her she was pretty. That was nice. ;D And while I'm at it, the end fight scene was just glorious. Loved the little things everyone did to help out (where was Momo though?) and, well, the whole atmosphere during that scene really added to it. Loved it. The factory scene; now THAT just shows how powerful bending can be. Loved it. What a great team Aang and Katara make! Loved Sokka and his planning (reminds me of me), as well as him acting all brotherly towards the end there. I don't care if people say he's a 2-D comic relief. He seems very much human to me, with a perchant for humor that's just great. Oh, and who knew he could play that pipe thingy? Toph; finally, she has more lines, and as usual, they were all awesome. I think in this case quality outweighs quantity. If we can have this level of Toph badass every episode, I wouldn't complain, too much. That reminds me; the scene where Sokka and Toph catch Katara and Aang sneaking back brought forth 2 thoughts: 1. Sokka and Toph REALLY seemed like a married couple there, and I thought it was hilarious (they obviously rehearsed it). 2. Katara and Aang, sneaking back, all nervous like? Oh help me for I have a gutter mind. Ha. So yeah, that ending...kind of random and rushed, I thought. I'm talking most of Katara's little speech (PLEASE be the last one ever...) and the actual Painted Lady revealing herself. It'd be nice if we had some inkling that she was actually real beforehand, but meh. Overall, not a superspectacular episode, but very enjoyable nonetheless. I hope very much to see it on TV soon. YOU HEAR THAT YTV?!?!?! Score: 8/10
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Oct 9, 2007 22:04:53 GMT -5
"What I don't get, is how Katara came up with the idea. Did she find out about the myth of the Painted Lady before Shu showed them the statue and told them everything? They never really explained that. Ah well, a small plot hiccough that I can take."
dont you remember? katara explained it to Aang. she wasnt the painted lady at first. the first night she just stole some food. then shu gave her the idea fo bein the painted lady.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 9, 2007 22:06:50 GMT -5
Right, right, that makes sense. I didn't quite understand that part either, actually. Thanks!
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Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Firework on Oct 9, 2007 22:11:37 GMT -5
What I don't get, is how Katara came up with the idea. Did she find out about the myth of the Painted Lady before Shu showed them the statue and told them everything? They never really explained that. Ah well, a small plot hiccough that I can take. When Katara stole the supplies from the factory and gave them to the villagers, the villagers assumed the supplies were given to them by the Painted Lady; Katara simply went along with their assumption since the villagers' mood had significantly risen because they believe the Painted Lady was helping them.
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