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Post by bongalak on Dec 20, 2007 22:30:53 GMT -5
Sorry kaiba, didn't mean to sound so murderous ^^;
But yea let's get back on topic. Wherever that was...
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 20, 2007 22:37:42 GMT -5
Did I? Oh snap I did! Yaaaaay.
And yes...I want to see Azula get her comeuppance. Why? Because she's a horrible, terrible person who does and says horrible terrible things, so I don't think it's narratively appropriate for her to have a happy ending.
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kaibasgirl
Ba Sing Se Azula
The Sokkla Addict
Replace ships with fruit and that's exactly what you get.
Posts: 2,772
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Post by kaibasgirl on Dec 20, 2007 22:45:28 GMT -5
bongalak, lol, it's okay, half the fandom doesn't like her, so I've seen worse hopes predictions. Then again, half the fandom doesn't like Katara either -__-
yiceman, but you have to take into consideration-nah, nevermind, I think I argued this with you already.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
It would be interesting if Ursa and Azula would meet face to face. I'd really look forward to that reunion.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 20, 2007 23:06:26 GMT -5
I don't think either myself or bong want that kind of stuff to happen because we dislike Azula. Quite the opposite for me. I love her...as a villain. I think she's a great bad guy. And so I want to see her get a great, satisfying end.
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Post by bongalak on Dec 20, 2007 23:14:13 GMT -5
My sentiments exactly. She's someone you love to hate, and someone truly worth hating. And that's what makes her so likable..? Ok that may not make sense to some but it makes sense to me ^^ But I just can't shake the feeling that Azula's end might end up being something completely unexpected and even "happy" because this is one unpredictable show with so many unpredictable characters and elements. I mean, I never could have guessed Zuko would betray Iroh, or that the Day of Black Sun invasion would be a massive failure. Also the fact that this show airs on Nick doesn't help the chances of something really terrible happening to Azula (like my proposed scenario). Iunno, maybe I'm just being paranoid
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 20, 2007 23:37:30 GMT -5
Look at it this way...Zuko's betrayal and DoBS...those were in the middle. They aren't final. And the characters came back from both of those unexpected events. But the end is something different...it's the end. It's final. So if you pull enough of a twist like that, people will just be confused. Like, what if they ended with Zuko being a bad guy? That would be against his character and anger a lot of people. For myself and others, same goes with Azula ending up good.
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Post by conspiracytheorist on Dec 21, 2007 0:01:05 GMT -5
My sentiments exactly. She's someone you love to hate, and someone truly worth hating. And that's what makes her so likable..? Ok that may not make sense to some but it makes sense to me ^^ It makes sense. We all have a lot invested in the fact that she's a top notch bad guy, so when we see her being that bad guy, we appreciate it. Does that mean she's a likable character? That depends... on whether or not you're in conversation with somebody that's going to yell at you if you say that a villain can be likable. Suffice it to say that she's a very likable villain. And hopefully she'll be that villain to the bitter end. When Zuko betrayed Iroh in 'Crossroads', it seemed like everybody was all, "Gripe, gripe, gripe," about it. But as Yiceman points out, that wasn't the end of the series. With just 8/9 (I wish somebody would set this straight for me) episodes to go, if Azula is to make some drastic turnabout, the griping that will inevitably follow isn't going to be drowned out by new, shiny episodes next season, because there isn't going to be a next season. This is it.
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Ghiaccio
Aang
Apparently Sokka's my best muse.
Posts: 57
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Post by Ghiaccio on Dec 21, 2007 13:36:32 GMT -5
I don't really know what would happen if Azula and her mommy dearest meet up again. but...
Azula is still a girl, a evil plotting seemingly heartless girl. She still didn't get mommy's love as a little girl. She's angry. She hates her mother. She was happy when her mother was gone. Wouldn't you be happy if the one person who didn't show you any love as a child, who's supposed to show you unconditional love didn't love you?
It's like, ... "Hell yes! Daddy got rid of Mommy. Daddy's awesome! But Zuzu... That stupid Zuzu, weakling who wasn't special at all got all of Mommy's love. Stupid Zuzu -hits Zuzu- And Uncle! He doesn't deserve the throne! He's a softy. Just like Zuzu, and just like Mommy! THEY MUST BE RID OF!"
I guess that's my 'simple' understanding of Azula's mind as a child. I think all this pent up ruthlessness started with the fact Ursa thought Azula was a monster. Hence why Azula is the perfectionist evil villain who grew up to want to finish the war with her father, the parental figure that showed her praise and love.
If they meet, I think she'll be furious, and raging. She'll do whatever it takes to get rid of her. She'll possibly want to know why, why Zuzu, and not her. Other than that, She'll take her prisoner possibly, torment her, kill her, all in sick twisted ways of Princess Azula.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Dec 21, 2007 14:50:03 GMT -5
I'll leave that for the writer's to figure out XD but I think it's quite possible. Besides, no one said she has to do a complete 360, she could end up redeeming herself through death. I think you just want her to be and stay that perfect, remorseless, one-dimensional villain, but I think that would make her extremely flat if she had no added depth to her. EDIT: bongalak, your welcome. And your prediction for Azula is disturbing o___O no offense. a 360 would make her how she is now. again. xD oh, and, Azula's been trying to be the most powerful person on Earth for 14 years. and, she'd be likely to rip Ursa's head off and feed to her. after playing soccer with Ursa's head.
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
Posts: 537
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Post by SpiritBender on Dec 21, 2007 15:03:39 GMT -5
^^See, I don't think that Azula really has hatred per se of her mother or Iroh. I think it's more like contempt because she sees them as weak people. To people like Azula (and Ozai), there is nothing more to life than the quest for power. They admire only qualities like ruthlessness, cunning, and ambition. They have empty hearts and have no experience or comprehension of love or anything that resembles true empathy or compassion. To them, those emotions only register as sentimental drivel than they can exploit and use to manipulate others. Because Iroh and Zuko and Ursa were more balanced people who had those qualities, Azula saw them as weak and unworthy of her respect (and just objects to manipulate in her own ambitions).
Azula did not develop "pent up ruthlessness" because mommy didn't love her. Ursa didn't like Azula because she saw that she was a horrible person from a very young age. Yes, she was probably like that as soon as her personality started to appear. Many people either don't know or don't want to acknowledge the fact that many personality characteristics ARE in fact genetic. Their further development is influenced by the environment, but the basic patterns are innate. Azula grew up in an environment where those personality characteristics were nurtured and reinforced -- a ruling, conquering family that was expected to be aggressive and ruthless. There was never a chance for any other personality characteristics to develop, and by now it's FAR too late. There is no deviating from the course she's on now.
To get back to the topic, Azula didn't feel hurt because she lacked Ursa's love -- a person like Azula has never known nor is capable of knowing what love is. Azula was hurt by Ursa because Ursa didn't treat her like she was perfect and wonderful. Everybody else in the world treated Azula like she was the greatest thing since whipped cream cheese (man that stuff is great). It was a blow to Azula's ego that somebody would not worship her, but Ursa treatment of Azula didn't "make" her sick and twisted. Ursa's treatment of Azula was a reaction to how horrible Azula was even as a child.
So as I said earlier in this thead, if Azula actually met up with Ursa, it would not be a huge dramatic scene, nor would it change anything about Azula. All that Azula would be likely to do is find some way to manipulate Ursa's presence to her advantage (i.e. set a trap for Zuzu.) It's highly likely that after DoBS, Ozai is going to send Azula after Zuko. I can't wait to see her megalomaniacal delusions shattered when Zuzu defeats her!
-- SpiritBender
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 21, 2007 18:05:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I dislike the assumption that Ursa didn't love Azula or even treated her badly. Does anyone think that's true? That Ursa was a loving, wonderful mother to one child and just constantly put down another for no good reason? No.
As spiritbender said, Azula didn't become evil because mommy scolded her, mommy scolded her because she was evil. Ursa was probably the one who had to constantly put Azula down for saying and doing horrible things, and Azula took that the wrong way. Ursa did those things because she cared what kind of person her daughter was.
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Post by bongalak on Dec 22, 2007 21:08:51 GMT -5
I think Ursa loved Azula, despite Azula's sheer evilness. And even if she couldn't love her, which I wouldn't blame her for, I am certain that she really tried to love her. Ursa was a warm-hearted person who wanted to love her children with all her heart. I don't think there's any dispute there.
I'd like to introduce another question though: do you guys think that a small part of Azula may have wanted her mother's approval? I know most of you guys don't think much of the Beach episode, but Azula did seem genuinly bothered that Ursa did not accept her for who she was. The rest of the Beach episode may or may not have been joke/fanservice/whatever, but I'm pretty sure that part of the episode is worth taking seriously.
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
Posts: 537
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Post by SpiritBender on Dec 23, 2007 0:21:50 GMT -5
^^If not receiving Ursa's approval truly did hurt her, then yes, Azula did want it. However, as I said above it was not a matter of Azula being "starved for mommy's love" or anything like that. It's just the fact that everybody else told Azula constantly that she was perfect and wonderful, while Ursa did not. The one person whom Azula should have looked to emulate as a female in a ruling family thought that there was something seriously wrong with her. It hurt Azula's ego, but nothing more. Of course, to a megalomaniac like Azula there could be nothing worse, but it's not something that "made Azula who she is", or anything like that.
-- SpiritBender
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zutarian4eva
Avatar Aang
Never judge a person from the outside, what counts is the inside...
Posts: 1,110
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Post by zutarian4eva on Dec 26, 2007 21:03:32 GMT -5
Actually during the Beach, Azula showed us that she does have Emotions; except she does it where nobody knows who she is. She wants people to obey her. I believe her father told her that Emotions are for weaklings; so if nobody knows who she is, they won't fear her and she can express her emotions. As for the Beach for example: She expressed two different emotions: Jealousy, Disappointment (sad) (for a brief second), Add anything I missed. Jealousy (Some of you may have different perspective) dvdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/305/354.jpg [/img] Confession (Not an Emotion...I think...But it's not something we see Azula do every day!) Pity (Feeling Sorry…Not an emotion…I think) These two images haven't been shown in any episodes yet; I suppose maybe these two images COULD have something to do with Azula and Ursa encountering each other. ^^^^^ This is just a guess. I think these images have some sort of connection when she was speaking about her mother during “The Beach” episode. dvdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/305/791.jpg [/img] dvdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/305/792.jpg [/img] dvdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/305/794.jpg [/img] Sorry for all of the images…^^*…I think I got carried away. BACK ON TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC! I think there will be an emotion, if there is nobody around her that knows who she is. There are chances that Zuko may see this emotion. But it’ll be interesting if Ursa and Azula do encounter when they are all alone.
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ethe
Haru
The Mythological Being
Posts: 335
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Post by ethe on Dec 26, 2007 21:15:55 GMT -5
WAAAY off topic (it kinda goes with the Azula can show emotion thing, so it's not that off topic?), but I thought this was so funny XD It could be just a joke, I don't know :/ I can't stop lmao so it must be just a joke. The creators sure do have sense of humor. Right... so maybe I should try to connect this with the topic.. Okay claps hands* She's seducing Haru to get something (ethe's guessing). If she met up with Ursa, she trick her into doing something?
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