asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
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Post by asian malaysian on Feb 20, 2009 1:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by mike1921 on Feb 20, 2009 14:26:56 GMT -5
Unless they're not supposed to be funny I don't think it's racist. Racial, but not racist. Mainly because I'm of the opinion that humor can't be racist or immoral.
If those are meant to be serious they're very offensive and sick.
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Post by goten0040 on Feb 20, 2009 14:35:16 GMT -5
Well, I've always been one to say that if it doesn't offend somebody, it usually isn't funny. But I'm not real sure about this one. This just seems to be cruel intent to me, but I'm willing to listen to discussions.
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Yakuza
Avatar Aang
I've Got A Restrainin' Order Against Satan's Daughter
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Post by Yakuza on Feb 20, 2009 15:20:58 GMT -5
Before I reply to this I would like a consensus of immunity against my words. That my argument will be strictly for argument and discussion perpetuation and is in no way meant to be offensive. This is a dangerous turf to go down.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Feb 20, 2009 18:31:59 GMT -5
^^ "You can't promise something like that. I have no idea what you're going to ask. You could ask me what you're going to ask me and my natural reaction could be to be offended. Then through no fault of my own, I woulda broken my promise." Mia(Urma Thurman) in Pulp Fiction. Great movie. What she said. Unless they're not supposed to be funny I don't think it's racist. Racial, but not racist. Mainly because I'm of the opinion that humor can't be racist or immoral. If those are meant to be serious they're very offensive and sick. By that reasoning, provided the other cartoons the same artist did about gays (in the second link) were intended to be funny, they could'nt be classified as homophobic either.
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Yakuza
Avatar Aang
I've Got A Restrainin' Order Against Satan's Daughter
Posts: 1,143
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Post by Yakuza on Feb 20, 2009 18:41:18 GMT -5
^^ "You can't promise something like that. I have no idea what you're going to ask. You could ask me what you're going to ask me and my natural reaction could be to be offended. Then through no fault of my own, I woulda broken my promise." Mia(Urma Thurman) in Pulp Fiction. Great movie. What she said. Unless they're not supposed to be funny I don't think it's racist. Racial, but not racist. Mainly because I'm of the opinion that humor can't be racist or immoral. If those are meant to be serious they're very offensive and sick. By that reasoning, provided the other cartoons the same artist did about gays (in the second link) were intended to be funny, they could'nt be classified as homophobic either. The last time I added a dimension of argument and perspective an argument, I angered a lot of people. Especially on a subject like this.
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Post by goten0040 on Feb 20, 2009 22:45:29 GMT -5
This is the Critical Thinking board. Discussions are likely to get heated. Say what you need to say, as long as you can keep it clean.
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Post by luthien on Feb 20, 2009 22:52:35 GMT -5
Disregarding the racism debate, I think it's in extremely poor taste to reference a brutal attack in which a woman's face and hands were ripped off. Cops couldn't even tell if she was male or female because the damage was so bad. It's just too soon - two days later, seriously? He couldn't have even waited a week?
Can't wait for the Rihanna domestic violence cartoon that's surely just down the pike!
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Yakuza
Avatar Aang
I've Got A Restrainin' Order Against Satan's Daughter
Posts: 1,143
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Post by Yakuza on Feb 21, 2009 0:42:42 GMT -5
Ooookay. If I get ripped to shreds than I'm putting it on your head, goten.
Now now now... To start off allow me to give you my interpretation of the comic.
It's not racist.
As with any picture/phrase that is considered racist, it must be taken into context first. You evaluate the words, you evaluate the picture, you just comb it over. Its a rule of thumb almost for any political cartoon. One very particular word that stuck out to me was "write". The word "write". Why? Because it rhymes with white? No no silly, because Obama SIGNED the stimulus bill, he didnt write it. The monkeys in Congress wrote the bill. In fact the monkey before Obama had a lot of doctorate. In fact the man before Obama has been referred to as a chimp for nearly 8 years in a row without anyone raising an eyebrow. There are people who get flustered at the mere notion that they evolved from chimps.
So why would everyone get butt hurt over something like this? Because the monkeys of Congress and the monkey president WROTE the stimulus bill before the monkey in office now SIGNED it. Now why is calling those people monkeys inherently wrong? The context of my statement differs no more than the previous, that the presidents are monkeys. Congress = monkeys. Its just now we have been so accustomed to avoiding saying something racist as compared to actually looking at something.
So here is where I get upset. Why do we jump at everything? It's not fair and quite frankly its embarrassing. There is nothing inherently wrong with this comic as long as you took more than 5 minutes to look it over and take its symbolism into effect. Im not saying that we didnt on here, but everyone else did. Would you have thought this comic was racist or would you have brought it here for analysis if there wasnt such an uproar in the first place?
Everything is relative, and everything has a context.
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Post by mike1921 on Feb 21, 2009 1:43:50 GMT -5
Yea, your point is?
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Sheogorath
Kyoshi Azula
Lord of the Never-There
Yeah, an Avatard and a brony. Got a problem with that?
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Post by Sheogorath on Feb 21, 2009 3:47:00 GMT -5
I think it's more than a little racist. Come on. We all know that way back when, black people were called monkeys as a racial slur as surely as the n-word. And the fact that the cop shot a monkey does, in a way, have the racist connotation of a cop shooting a black man. Whether it's a direct euphemism for the President and others, I'm not too sure, but we're all thinking it, whether we want to admit that's what the cartoon is about or not.
Of course, it's also true that detractors of the theory of evolution also used monkey as a slam against supporters of the theory of evolution...
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Feb 21, 2009 21:34:11 GMT -5
Just clarifying the implications of your point. Namely, that commentary which would otherwise be deemed offensive (ie-racist, homophobic, sexist, etc) can rendered otherwise by expressing it through the medium of cartoon. I respectfully disagree.
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Post by mike1921 on Feb 22, 2009 1:02:50 GMT -5
Just clarifying the implications of your point. Namely, that commentary which would otherwise be deemed offensive (ie-racist, homophobic, sexist, etc) can rendered otherwise by expressing it through the medium of cartoon. I respectfully disagree. No, if the cartoon's not meant to be funny or satirical than I see no problem with calling it offensive. So, avatar could be offensive and Saturday night live could not.
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Post by Gran Gran on Feb 22, 2009 9:01:33 GMT -5
Well Yakuza's explanation made some sense....I mean, looking at the cartoon that way actually made it a bit funny. personally I think it just missed the mark, with too much local specialty, just not easy to get for the rest of the world.
Not to mention 'Civil Rights Leaders' have outlived themselves by a few decades. While their predecessors were the battling in the trenches, the current reincarnation of this once noble group are nothing more than pot stirrers. They work hard to keep their obsolete jobs by finding insult where non exists and deepening the rift.
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Post by username on Feb 22, 2009 15:14:52 GMT -5
Look guys I made a political cartoon, I'm on the cutting edge of wit! Anyway, The Post is a f***ing rag. Anyway, I don't have any qualms about the perceived racism in the cartoon. It is indeed just referencing some past incident at a zoo that I doubt anyone really remembers or cares about, as well as commenting "HURR THE STIMULUS PLAN IS SO BAD IT MUST HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY MONKEYS." I sincerely doubt it's "the president is black so he's like a monkey." I think the fact that they have the police shooting something that represents the president is definitely objectionable, much more so than any perceived racism. Not only is it objectionable, it's incredibly unfunny. Not because of any political incorrectness or because it's too shocking, because it's just stupid. I MADE ANOTHER CARTOON, AM I CLEVER ENOUGH FOR YOU NOW NEW YORK POST? See, in the first panel we see a character I disagree with, and in the second he's being hurt! OH THE HILARITY! God dang, why do people think satire is clever? I mean, it can and should be, but it's really usually among the stupidest forms of comedy. Unless they're not supposed to be funny I don't think it's racist. Racial, but not racist. Mainly because I'm of the opinion that humor can't be racist or immoral. No, that's not how racial humor works. Humor isn't a get out of jail free card for racism, it's a tool that can be used for mocking and going against social norms or commenting on racism itself. "I HATE BLACK PEOPLE THEY'RE LIKE MONKEYS" doesn't stop being racist when someone feels like making a stupid cartoon about it.
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