Chevalier Vi Liberté
Ty Lee
True Shinigami
La lutte d'un v?ritable chevalier n'est jamais fini ...
Posts: 4,299
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Post by Chevalier Vi Liberté on Dec 3, 2006 15:39:31 GMT -5
Yep, Iroh will probably help Zuko realize what he did and what he can do to fix the wrong he did.
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Post by astroanna on Dec 3, 2006 16:05:35 GMT -5
Yep, Iroh will probably help Zuko realize what he did and what he can do to fix the wrong he did. Much as I have complete faith in Iroh's wisdom and ability to forgive, I think Iroh is done trying to teach Zuko the lessons he's obviously not ready to learn. Like someone else said, I would rather he escape and join the Gaang, so that at least his teaching will go to someone who appreciates it. Besides that, he and Aang already have a bond, and Iroh now also has a bond with both Toph and Katara as well. I can't think of a better teacher for Aang. Can you tell I'm a little bitter at Zuko? P.S. Iroh was so disappointed at the end of the finale that I don't see that relationship being the same ever again. Whatever happens to Zuko from here on out, I want to at least see some ramifications result from his decision; one of those consequences being the loss of his uncle's respect, pride, and trust (although, because of who Iroh is, I don't think he's lost Iroh's love even now). If Zuko ultimately does something to earn those things back, so be it, but Iroh will not give them freely anymore, IMO. Nor should he.
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Post by ddkhslayer on Dec 3, 2006 16:49:37 GMT -5
i still think that zuko and iroh had a talk before the fight sene and him on azulas side is only a plan to take her down. ''she is crazy and needs to go down''-iroh (hey a little forshadowing ) but yea, it would be great to see iroh be Aangs fire bending teacher.
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Post by bomeraangsquad on Dec 3, 2006 17:59:15 GMT -5
Me too.^ I just can't see zuko joining the gaang too now that he has made his choice. The gaang seems to like Iroh now from a combo of the north pole, toph's tea and his advice to aang.
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XIII
Momo
Currently: Spazzing about the Finale
Posts: 44
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Post by XIII on Dec 3, 2006 18:04:57 GMT -5
Unless Jeong Jeong resurfaces, then I totally think Iroh is going to teach Aang Firebending. But yeah, I highly doubt that Zuko is going to join the gaang. But I do believe he conspired with Iroh against Azula between the time she left and the fight scene. How else did Iroh get out of those crystal things?
Either that, or Zuko is planning his own conspiracy against Azula without anyone else knowing.
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Post by bomeraangsquad on Dec 3, 2006 19:30:56 GMT -5
I never thought zuko would teach aang, but tha was only becasue I din't think he was strong enough. He got a lot better and now I think he could at least fight Azula.
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Post by conspiracytheorist on Dec 3, 2006 20:18:51 GMT -5
Just one hour wasn't enough.
The opening of the seven chakras was too easy. Aang had to relive some of the most unpleasant experiences of his life, and completely rid himself of the guilt and shame and fear that accompanied them. That kind of cleansing process should not come quickly. And perhaps it didn't come quickly, but the show didn't do a good job of demonstrating that. Just because Pathik mentioned each one individually and we saw a fifteen-second clip of Aang angsting over each doesn't mean that it was well done.
There was also an inconsistancy in the mentionings of the chakras. We know that the chakras are Earth, Water, Fire, ____, Sound, Light, Thought. You can assume that the fourth is Air, following the reincarnation cycle, but I doubt this was an intentional miss. But I think they hit all the locations of the chakras, as well as what they deal with and what emotions block them. While I'm on the subject of things that went wrong in these scenes though, how about Aang's most ridiculous line yet in two whole seasons: "Let's do this." =/
In order to possibly lengthen these scenes, quite a few clips could have been eliminated. Sokka visiting his dad was touching, sure, but it bore zero relevance to the plot of the two episodes that made up the season finale. All you really learn is that Hakoda's sense of humor is just as lame as Sokka's. The "All you men get ready for battle" line was nice, but the whole thing could have just been extra air time for the Guru. Going back a step, they should have eliminated the entire idea of Sokka visiting his dad from "The Earth King." I liked how Bato's arm was blistered, though, in keeping with the fact that he was injured in "Bato of the Water Tribe" in Season 1.
Toph being captured and then escaping from the clutches of Master Yu and Xin Fu was less irrelevant, but still could have been avoided. The fact that she bended metal (I don't care if it's technically earthbending - she bent the metal, okay?) tied into the sixth chakra nicely, fitting the theme that separation was an illusion. But apart from that, the scene was unimportant. Did the creators stick those guys in there just to remind us that they exist? Is the fact that they're stuck in that metal box supposed to resolve the fact that they're after Toph? If this is the last we're going to see of them, then I will be supremely disappointed in the thoughtlessness that went into planning their characters.
The animation seemed off. I assume that it was the same team that was responsible for "The Chase," among others this season. But it seemed off even for them. The synchronization of the characters' words with their mouths is worse than ever. I have a feeling that corners are being cut in this department even though this is an American anime. Illustrated in the east, yes, but an American anime nonetheless. Is this excusable? Maybe. But what's not is the constant misuse of facial expressions in these sorts of episodes, especially on Aang. When he's talking to Sokka before he drops him off at the Water Tribe encampment, he goes cross-eyed several times. It's irritating to have that flash across the screen for a second while the dialog is going on. The next time you watch, scrutinize your screen carefully. The imperfections are scattered all thoughout the special.
The Azula/Long Feng quarrel was interesting, but too simple, and not well thought out. Think about the progression of their competition for control of Ba Sing Se.
1: Azula decides to take down the Earth Kingdom from the inside. 2: Mai and Ty Lee intentionally tip their hand to the Dai Lee. 3: Long Feng confronts Azula and they strike a bargain: Long Feng regains his throne and Azula nabs the Avatar.
There is a wrench thrown into the plans at this point in their relationship. How is Long Feng supposed to deliver the Avatar to Azula? He has no knowledge of the fact that Aang will have a vision telling him to rescue Katara if she is captured by Azula! He doesn't even know where on earth the Avatar IS. He's not even the one responsible for capturing Katara; Ty Lee is the one who incapacitates her. All Long Feng does (read: All the Dai Lee does) is throw her down a hole. There is no guarantee that Azula gets the Avatar back, so why wouldn't Azula, already knowing that she has the upper hand in the game, have Long Feng killed? At least see to it that he rots in prison for the rest of his life instead of letting him out! Sure, the exchange between Azula and Long Feng was nice (I liked the "You were never even a player" line), but it was unnecessary.
Now that I've gone over most of the plot holes in the finale, let me expound upon the sheer foolishness that Zuko exhibited in these two episodes. I can't understand how, when he comes out of his spiritual crisis, he is so cheerful and downright WEIRD, when in the end he is simply going to betray his uncle and pursue the Avatar again. What triggers his switch from freakishly optimistic to beligerant is Azula. Isn't it always? She's the thorn in his side right now - the one stopping him from seeing that chasing the Avatar is not the path he should be choosing for himself. But what I can't get over is the direct contradiction to "Zuko Alone," where Zuko says to himself, "Azula always lies. Azula always lies." If Azula always lies, why doesn't he tune her out? Why doesn't he listen to his uncle? Sure, you can hide behind the fact that he is confused, and he's got his "inner turmoil" to deal with. He's still all tangled up inside. Oh right, right. Except that he was perfectly fine at the beginning of "The Guru." And now we've come full circle. That is, in essence, what Zuko has done: he has come full circle. From chasing the Avatar, to fleeing the Fire Nation, to leaving the company of his uncle, to realizing that his destiny was his own to decide with his uncle's help, to chasing the Avatar. If he has made this circle, then, why the indecisiveness at the end? The development of his character has always been clear and pretty well-written, and now it has slipped. I don't know what to make of it.
I wondered what the mention of Roku's talk with Aang from "The Avatar State" was for in the "Previously On Avatar" clips before "The Guru" started. When I saw Katara fingering the water from the Spirit Oasis while considering attempting healing Zuko's scar, I realized that Aang would have to venture close to death for that scene to bear any relevance. I liked the fact that she reserved the water for Aang and not for Zuko, even if it was an unfortunate interruption for all you Zutara fans. The unity between Aang and Co. is important now that the only stronghold left in the entire world is the Northern Water Tribe (and maybe the Southern, since Master Pakku mentioned that he would take a trip down south before Aang left the North Pole). The Earth Kingdom has fallen.
Here's something I don't get: How did Aang enter the Avatar state after leaving in the middle of opening all the chakras? Pathik said on numerous occasions that if Aang left in the middle of opening all seven, he could not go back; that he would not be able to go into the Avatar state at all. "At all," as in never again. How did he learn to let go of Katara, which was such a holdup for him after going through the six other chakras, in just a few minutes under the shield of some flimsy crystal that Azula could have wiped out with just the flick of her finger. A little lightning here, a little fire there, and his meditation is interrupted and the Avatar is captured, and the Fire Nation wins! As logical as it sounds, the good guy MUST win. So at least try to keep it real, writing team.
But seriously, Aang left in the middle of opening the seven chakras. Regardless of whether or not he decided to let go of his earthly attachments (Katara), he left in the middle of opening all seven. His choice to let go doesn't change that fact. Pathik is supposed to represent the wisdom of Monk Gyatso (he was a personal friend of his): he's a Guru, for goodness' sake. I suppose he could be mistaken, if you're really looking to dismiss the matter so easily, but it's as clear as mud to me how Pathik was wrong and Aang made it into the Avatar State again.
At least there was some cool fight scene stuff. When Zuko got all angsty and over-dramatic when Iroh bought him time versus Azula (Iroh can shoot fire from his mouth?! OMGBBQ), the Dai Lee basically laid the smackdown on him, and they barely had to lift a finger. The Sokka/Ty Lee dance sequence was pretty funny, and the four-way battle between Katara, Aang, Azula and Zuko? Incredible. I especially liked the fact that Katara was able to outmaneuver Azula before Zuko interrupted and cut her full-body water whips. And remember the water tentacle thing that Katara uses at the standoff with the Dai Lee? Where have we seen that before - maybe it was Pakku from that season, I don't recall at the moment, but I know it looks familiar. Also, we didn't really get to see Iroh do much fighting, but he was powerful enough to hold off Azula and a good majority of the Dai Lee while Aang and Katara made their escape, and then he just put his hands down once they were out of there, because he knew he wouldn't last. Iroh = <3
I like ending on a positive note to try and counteract my primarily pessimistic outlook on basically everything, but this time I've got to say that the episode really didn't live up to the hype. The Season 1 finale was twice as good as this one. Regular thirty minute episodes have had more substance than this one. The pointless fillers this season have taken away from the development of Book Two, and we're left with crappy resolutions for interesting characters. We're left with a lack of emphasis on some of the most important decisions Aang has ever made in the show's history up until now. We're left with clever dialog between characters but no real reason behind it. We're left with the scraps, and we're eating it up.
The finale could have been better. Much better. And what's more, it should have been better. By taking longer breaks between episodes, the show has somehow avoided the alienation of its fanbase. Instead, it has us on the edge of our seats, begging for new episodes. The show is slowly slipping, but somehow we don't care. Throwing in little shipping references has some people coming back every week for nothing else. Putting in touching moments between a father in a son that mean next to nothing will get the writers brownie points with the ninety percent of the audience that doesn't bother to question why. Plot holes are left wide open, but invisible to the naked eye.
Look beyond the pretty visuals and the clever dialog. Look back to the first season and the bar it set. Ask why the second hasn't met it. Don't be satisfied so easily. Demand more, because the show has been and can be much more.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Dec 3, 2006 20:55:33 GMT -5
Read and LEARN! ;D
Taken from livexthemagic's LJ:
You Know You're Too Big of a Kataang Fan When...
You watch the series only for the Kataang.
You’re favorite episodes are closely tied between the ‘Fortuneteller’ and ‘The Cave of Two Lovers’
You have watched those two episodes fifty plus times.
You still SQUEE at every Kataang moment.
You can repeat every Kataang moment known.
You’re PARENTS can repeat every Kataang moment and they don’t even watch the show.
You SQUEE whenever Aang so much looks at Katara or vice versa.
You throw your shoe at the television when there was no Kataang in the latest episode.
You accidentally destroy your television if there’s any evidence proving Kataang might not happen.
You persuade everyone you meet that Katara and Aang should be together…
…even if they’ve never heard of the show.
You have know that in ‘The Fortuneteller’ that Aang makes Katara a necklace and in the Water Tribes, when a boy makes a girl a necklace it’s considered a proposal of marriage.
You’ve also noticed when Aunt Wu reads the clouds she reads a arrow shaped cloud and a wavy moon shaped cloud. The arrow obviously stands for Aang and the moon stands for Katara who later gets the moon shape on her forehead from Bato, thus proving Aang and Katara are meant to be.
The only community you’ve joined on LiveJournal is the AangxKatara community.
Your screen name reads Kataang or KataraxAang or AangxKatara or Aantara (of some sort) on one of your accouts (YouTube, FanFiction, LiveJournal…etc)
You have writen Kataang fanfiction.
You make Kataang music videos.
You make Kataang graphics.
You are reading this.
You are using this as a checklist.
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Chevalier Vi Liberté
Ty Lee
True Shinigami
La lutte d'un v?ritable chevalier n'est jamais fini ...
Posts: 4,299
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Post by Chevalier Vi Liberté on Dec 3, 2006 21:05:43 GMT -5
Zuko will restore his honor. Not the honor he wanted before. This honor is the honor that is good.........
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Chevalier Vi Liberté
Ty Lee
True Shinigami
La lutte d'un v?ritable chevalier n'est jamais fini ...
Posts: 4,299
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Post by Chevalier Vi Liberté on Dec 3, 2006 21:07:14 GMT -5
Zuko will restore his honor. Not the bad honor he pursued before but the good honor that lurks deep within him....
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Post by Smellershot on Dec 3, 2006 22:44:15 GMT -5
Wow. Lots of reading to do. (56 pages!). But, lots of music and distractions to help along.
I was completely amazed with the finale. Sure, there was no Longshot & Smellerbee (and dare I say? Jet), but it was still very...just amazing. My friend and I had a field day with it.
I say the part I found most shocking was when Azula shot the blast of lightning at Aang. 1) Because he was in the Avatar State and therefore would've ended the complete cycle of the Avatar, and 2) it was just shocking like that. And I agree with conspiracytheorist about the part with the chakras. It seemed it a little bit rushed. I also thought Aang was being selfish for not letting Katara go, not even for the sake of the world. (also because I'm not a Kataang shipper).
That's pretty much all I have for input at the moment.
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Post by gomomo on Dec 3, 2006 22:51:16 GMT -5
hey guys, instead of thinking of the obvious such as Iroh and Jeong Jeong becoming Aang's teacher, maybe Kuzon, Aang's friend from before the war and before he got frozen will finally have a bigger role in the show. Kuzon might surface and end up helping Aang out, though it was never confirmed if Kuzon was a firebender or not...
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kalluwen
Buzzard Wasp
Suki fanboy, gotta love a woman with skillz
Posts: 523
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Post by kalluwen on Dec 3, 2006 23:00:08 GMT -5
I liked the finale but I do believe it could have been so much more. (any thing else to say? nope!)
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Post by thelastavatar on Dec 3, 2006 23:15:29 GMT -5
question is, is Kuzon still alive? I know there are people over 100 in the story, but is he one of them? I would still prefer Iroh, he would fit so much better into that little gang.
Zuko seems to feel defeated, when he bows his head to what he believes is the "inevitable." Azula is going to chase the Avatar, why not join her side and restore his honor? Iroh even goes as far as showing signs of disgust, disgrace, and shame at Zuko, something rather surprising for his character. Iroh's love for Zuko as a son is still there, but the damage has been done; Zuko is probably too stubborn to accept his uncle's teachings (see the issues with youth sometimes?). Smellershot, Aang was willing to try and let Katara go the first time, but it was rather hard; that was when he had the vision. The second time he attempts (still not sure if he was entirely successful) he lets go of her and ascends into the state, and Katara is smiling at his success. Unfortunately this is the moment where he is shot down, leaving a big cliffhanger.
conspiracy, you do have some points. they should have drawn out the finale a bit longer; unfortunately they had to do it in 2 episodes. It would have been better in 3 episodes, but oh well. Some of the holes might be explained next season, we will just have to see. The second finale IMO was supposed to deal with inner conflicts, issues that are more emotional than physical. The octopus move you saw was being taught to Aang by Katara in the Cave of Two Lovers, right in the beginning; Master Pakku never does this move. When Pathik is talking about how Aang would not be able enter the Avatar State at all, he meant that he would have to open them all, or else it would not work; one blocked chakra would spell disaster. So, Aang is able to open it at the end, allowing him access at that moment. Only one thing bothered me about this: Why was the Avatar State able to work when all 7 chakras were blocked? I think Pathik only meant that Aang would not be able to control his actions, only watch helplessly as a spectator as the power consumed his body for whatever purpose.
The Earth Kingdom may have fallen, but it doesnt mean that there won't be resistance. We saw it in Omashu, and we will see it again. The Water Tribes, and the Temples are the only places not overrun by Fire Nation. It would be nice to see people protect the temples too, because that would be a very good military fortress. I wonder if Pakku reached the South Pole yet lol.
Doesn't the Dai Li notice that Azula is standing right there? Kinda hard to miss if ya ask me. Yes, Long Feng was never a player, even at his own game; Azula was controlling all the pieces on this board. I don't believe he is being put to death though, just dealt with brutally, and possibly to show an example of what may happen. He was just a coward who hid behind the Dai Li, and the Earth King when he had the man's ear.
Pathik being a personal friend of Gyatso just may be meant to prove to Aang that they might have something in common, be able to bond, as well as showing Aang that he can be trusted and is wise. After all, Gyatso was Aang's mentor, and he trusted Pathik, so why shouldn't Aang?
Just hoping the 3rd season will be better than the bar the first season set...
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Post by Ikkin on Dec 3, 2006 23:29:58 GMT -5
Only one thing bothered me about this: Why was the Avatar State able to work when all 7 chakras were blocked? I think Pathik only meant that Aang would not be able to control his actions, only watch helplessly as a spectator as the power consumed his body for whatever purpose. I think Pathik said something about the seventh chakra being 'locked' by Aang's decision to go off and help Katara. I suppose it's possible that, like the pools, they were blocked before, but some water/energy could still flow down and be used by the Avatar State, but by leaving before the process was complete, it would be like cutting the flow off entirely, resulting in no ability to use the Avatar State at all.
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