nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Dec 11, 2007 4:38:30 GMT -5
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 4:39:54 GMT -5
And i think it's "fanfic writing" (or wishful thinking) to think that Mai didn't care a thing about Tom-Tom during that whole scenario and to say that hesitation moment didn't mean anything. LOL! Fanfic writing...I like that, i gotta use it sometimes :rofl: yeah right ouch I don't remember calling anyone an idiot though xD That would be entirely your opinion, they could do the fanciest writing ever, but you could still think it's crappy.
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 4:46:45 GMT -5
That would be a miracle.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 4:51:09 GMT -5
Like what? Could I have an example? You keep giving generalizations and assumptions. It's not that I'm ignoring you, it's that you're not providing anything specific enough to actually use... That's up to debate. Personally, I think the Headband glare was more one of annoyance at Azula for interrupting her time with Zuko. The "hesitation" she shows with the Tom-Tom situation seems to be more of a "Hmm... let me think about it, hey, you're right. It IS an unfair trade!" look to me. But again, this is all personal interpretation, and vague looks alone cannot be used to determine anything at this point. It doesn't matter if he thought it was right, it was wrong and he did it. I bet the guy who shot Martin Luther King Jr. thought he was doing "right" also (Okay, i know it's not that seriously, but i couldn't think of any other comparison at the moment xD) But it DOES matter. If you think you're doing the right thing, and your intentions are good, how can that be the same thing as thinking you're doing the wrong thing, and not caring enough to stop it? Zuko couldn't just go and "do the right thing" if he already thought he was doing the right thing. Mai must've known putting her brother in that position was dangerous and wrong, she's not stupid. Yet she did it anyway. (And it's okay about the example. It's late, we're all tired and not thinking straight. XD) And that picture (seen it, funny btw) is not what I'm saying at all. I'm not trying to demonize Mai here. I don't think she's a BAD person. She's just not a GOOD person. More than anything she's just apathetic. But being apathetic, though funny when coupled with Ty Lee's over-perkiness, is not a good thing. And it bothers me when people paint Mai as this wonderful, mature, beautiful intellectual when in reality she's just a person with no passion.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 4:59:01 GMT -5
If personal interpretation, and vague looks alone cannot be used to determine anything then how come you keep using them. Like i said before I'm stating the obvious. As for Mai's good quality's its obvious cares about Zuko and wants him to be happy, you do agree with that right. Also Mai's wavering loyalty is a good quality it shows she knows the fire nation is wrong. The fact that she let Toph ,Sokka and the earth king get away. I feel like I'm repeating myself.
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:03:13 GMT -5
Mai fan here, and I DO NOT paint her as the prefect picture, everyone has bad-qualities, but I just don't think they are AS BAD as people make them out to be, people just make her character seem like a more evil horrible person then she actually is.
And what about the people who paint her as an ugly baby killer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 5:06:32 GMT -5
Mai fan here, and I DO NOT paint her as the prefect picture, everyone has bad-qualities, but I just don't think they are AS BAD as people make them out to be, people just make her character seem like a more evil horrible person then she actually is.I agree with you, people distort Mai's character they make her seem like some one evil when in reality she isn't.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:07:02 GMT -5
If personal interpretation, and vague looks alone cannot be used to determine anything then how come you keep using them. I don't. I was just saying, it can be interpreted many ways, and included my personal interpretation. You're the one who keeps bringing up Mai's supposed "hesitation" and her glare at Azula. Sure I do. No one ever argued that Mai cares about Zuko. What we've been saying here is that she ONLY seems to care about Zuko. What kind of person is so concerned about their boyfriend, but let's her baby brother be put in danger? I guess we can give half-half on this one then. Good quality for caring about Zuko. Poor quality that she does't care about anything ELSE. When has anything Mai done shown that she believes the Fire Nation is wrong? When has she ever spoken out against anything they have done? Or defied the Fire Nation out of principle? Never. Any time she has been shown to waver in her loyalty has been simply for selfish purposes. She didn't want to get dirty in the Drill, for instance. She didn't defy Azula because she thought attacking Ba Sing Se was wrong. Again, a sign of selfishness, not a good quality. But like I said, she didn't let them go out of KINDNESS or MERCY! She let them go because she didn't CARE! She didn't feel like fighting them over a bear. It wasn't because she was sparing them, or because she wanted to do the right thing. She was just lazy and apathetic. Lazy? Apathetic? Where's the good quality again? I agree with you, people distort Mai's character they make her seem like some one evil when in reality she isn't. But it goes the other way too. People paint Mai as being someone intellectual, mature, and kind when she really isn't. She's more apathetic than anything. They even "change" scenes or "add" to them just to prove this. THAT'S what gets to me.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 5:09:02 GMT -5
but the thing is, i don't see these looks as being all of that vague and ambiguous.
....but i guess that falls under the category of personal interpretation also
....I'm sorry, but that went over my head completely (I was kind of waiting for a "savvy?" at the end of that sentence xD). Could you explain? (Or maybe i'm just not thinking straight, I blame that on it being past 5:00 a.m. over here xD)
She's definitely not stupid, she shows that by not choosing to go against Azula at that point.
I'm a Mai fan, but i most certainly don't paint her as this wonderful, beautiful (which she is, but that's besides the point) intellectual, but i don't treat her like crap either.
what she said
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:11:35 GMT -5
Again, smashing her character like a little bug in the side-walk.
Come one, seriously? She thinks she can win that fight, bender v.s dagger thrower, it wasn't like she was being the most intelligent person in the world, but she was smart enough to know that she had a low chance of winning the fight over a bear. Why would she do that?
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Dec 11, 2007 5:12:48 GMT -5
But like I said, she didn't let them go out of KINDNESS or MERCY! She let them go because she didn't CARE! She didn't feel like fighting them over a bear. It wasn't because she was sparing them, or because she wanted to do the right thing. She was just lazy and apathetic. And tired of cleaning up bear poop...but I would have been too
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:13:30 GMT -5
....I'm sorry, but that went over my head completely (I was kind of waiting for a "savvy?" at the end of that sentence xD). Could you explain? (Or maybe i'm just not thinking straight, I blame that on it being past 5:00 a.m. over here xD) Let me put it to you this way, luv... *spaces out for a moment* Huh? What? Where's the rum? WHY IS THE RUM ALWAYS GONE!? XD Yeah, it's passed 3am over here. I'm falling asleep on my keyboard. But she does go against Azula in the Drill, and also by letting Toph, Sokka, and the Earth King get away. How is that any different? Again, smashing her character like a little bug in the side-walk. Come one, seriously? She thinks she can win that fight, bender v.s dagger thrower, it wasn't like she was being the most intelligent person in the world, but she was smart enough to know that she had a low chance of winning the fight over a bear. Why would she do that? Alright then, I can agree to that. Let's say she let them go because she felt she couldn't win. Then my point is still valid. She did not let them go out of kindness or mercy, as femble91 is claiming. She just did it out of self-preservation. Then this counts as neither a good quality nor bad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 5:14:23 GMT -5
Once again I was stating the obvious.
I don't see where your getting the whole idea that the only thing she cares about is Zuko. Just because the majority of Mai scene are with Zuko doesn't mean thats all she cares about.
She's never said anything against the fire nation but she has also never said any thing in its favor. But it shows she not a heartless baby killer cause if she was she would have killed them too.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:20:31 GMT -5
Once again I was stating the obvious. See, that's just the thing. It's not obvious. Vague things like this are about interpretation. What's obvious to you may not be existant to others. Likewise what's obvious to me may seem unlikely to you. All right then, I'll bite. What else, besides Zuko, has Mai EVER been shown to care about? Even in one scene? Again, this shows either apathy or neutrality, not a desire to righteously stand up against the war. And seeing as Mai tends to not care about anything outside Zuko, I'm leaning more towards apathy. I didn't say she was a heartless killer. I said she just wasn't a good person. She isn't a bad person either, mind you. She's just unpassionate. She just doesn't care.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 5:21:02 GMT -5
Like i said before, maybe the reason she didn't go against Azula because she was fearful of her brother's life not her own (because it doesn't make sense for her to fear what Azula's going to do to her for being defiant, when it's been shown that's she does not fear Azula)
Here's what i said:
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