asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Oct 27, 2008 23:03:32 GMT -5
To be completely honest with all of you, I can't believe that people as intelligent as Countess are even taking the stupid things seriously. The debates mean absolutely nothing, first of all because the President's leaning on something only matters if a veto comes up (which can be overridden), and secondly because the debates, in the first place, are just a bunch of crap! They're all about appearance! They talk a lot, and don't really say much. The entire point is to look nice. They figured that out in the very first televised debates, Nixon vs Kennedy. Radio listeners thought Nixon won on the topics, but television viewers thought Kennedy won- he looked cooler, calmer. That lost Nixon the election. It's all about how smooth, charismatic, and clean looking the candidate is, not what he says. Very few people in this country actually care about policies anymore. We are among the very few that truly try to see what the candidates believe in- believe me, it drives me crazy. But in any case, the debates were a huge waste of money. Who's with me? ^In a world where people let the color of a man's skin or the sound of his middle name determine their decision to vote, Id say that a presidential debate preformance is a relatively intelligent consideration in determining a person's vote.
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Oct 28, 2008 15:05:31 GMT -5
You misunderstand. I don't mean to say that it isn't an important part of the campaign, I said it was a waste, because it was exactly what you described it as- a 'performance'. They are actors on a stage, and the whole world is watching. They don't care so much that anything actually happens, so long as they are entertained. And they are. So.
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asian malaysian
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Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
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Post by asian malaysian on Oct 29, 2008 21:53:49 GMT -5
^ Gandalan, every aspect of a presidential election campaign can be described as a peformance. Why single out the debates as waste above any of other aspects of the election campaign?
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Post by username on Nov 1, 2008 21:36:43 GMT -5
You misunderstand. I don't mean to say that it isn't an important part of the campaign, I said it was a waste, because it was exactly what you described it as- a 'performance'. They are actors on a stage, and the whole world is watching. They don't care so much that anything actually happens, so long as they are entertained. And they are. So. So what is an important part of the campaign? Rallies, speeches? The entire campaign has the same problems you have with the debates. Charisma isn't really a meaningless factor in a president. Much of life revolves around how we perceive it, and how we perceive the people in it. If we perceive our president as a great leader, this is positive. People like JFK improve our cultural value. The debates also serve to get their stances out to a wider audience. So no, it's not as meaningless as you'd like to think it is.
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Gandalan
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 4, 2008 9:08:39 GMT -5
To AM: I never said that I agreed with how the rest of the campaigns are run. Any intelligent human being can realize that the entire thing is an act. However, THIS topic specifically was about the debates, so that's what I focused on. You see, I try to stay on topic.
To Kaneda: In my first post, I said "They're all about appearance! They talk a lot, and don't really say much. The entire point is to look nice. They figured that out in the very first televised debates, Nixon vs Kennedy. Radio listeners thought Nixon won on the topics, but television viewers thought Kennedy won- he looked cooler, calmer. That lost Nixon the election. It's all about how smooth, charismatic, and clean looking the candidate is, not what he says. Very few people in this country actually care about policies anymore. We are among the very few that truly try to see what the candidates believe in- believe me, it drives me crazy." So, yes, believe me, I do realize that these debates are important. It very much drives how a nation will vote, depending on what a person looks like, how they speak, how they act. My point is not that these things are not important in determining who the next President is (as I stated in my next post: "You misunderstand. I don't mean to say that it isn't an important part of the campaign, I said it was a waste, because it was exactly what you described it as- a 'performance'."), but that they are, or should be, completely meaningless to somebody who truly cares about the issues at hand, and whether they are being addressed well enough by the candidate. These days, you can win the election with impassioned speeches which talk a lot but say little, or a nice big smile. That absolutely disgusts me. I cannot believe that our society has devolved into such a stupid mass as to vote that way- but a lot of it does. So my post was pointing that out, and disagreeing with the tenants of how the debates are run today, and the debates only because, again, this topic was about debates. And I try to stay on topic.
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Post by CountessRachel on Nov 5, 2008 0:42:56 GMT -5
Well, Bush Jr had terrible stage presence, poor oratory skills, and (imo) was less attractive than Gore...
True, appearance has a huge impact on the way people vote. But many people harbor the sentiment that politicians are all bull anyways and it doesn't really matter what their policies are because as soon as they get into office, they're going to act in their self-interests--so lets at least vote for the better-looking one.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
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Post by asian malaysian on Nov 5, 2008 19:16:28 GMT -5
Lots of people felt Al Gore fumbled the debates which is a shame ecause I have no doubt that he would have been a beter president. Bush Jnr was always more comfortable in his ignorance which gave him a great deal of confidence.
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Post by CountessRachel on Nov 6, 2008 23:08:54 GMT -5
A lot of people felt Gore as haughty and arrogant...and well, when you debate with a person like Bush, it's pretty durn hard NOT to come off as egotistical or arrogant. But you do have something about that complacency in ignorance thing....
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