Silver-Angel!
Meng
"Time is a great teacher. To bad it kills all of it's students."
Posts: 253
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Post by Silver-Angel! on Aug 21, 2008 18:43:14 GMT -5
What went through his mind was actually the exact opposite. Killing Ozai was the one thing he would not do, and why is that? Because taking another person's life, to Aang, was unforgivable. DEATH was the worst fate that he could have given to the Fire Lord... Aang didn't want to kill Fire Lord Ozai because he didn't believe in taking away life from a person. He felt that it was not his right to decide if a person should live or die. It's not because he felt that killing was the worst thing you could do to a person. It's not so much the death in itself as it is the taking away of life... that is murder, that spooked him. He was thinking that nobody deserves to have their life taken away against their will by anything other than natural causes. Yes murder was unforgivable to Aang, we know that. But that still doesn't mean he felt death was the worst fate a person could have. All it means was murder was unforgivable to Aang... obviously. Him not killing Ozai had nothing to do with fate, so I don't even understand why you said that. Besides, death isnt even fate at all. Well actually, if you want to consider it fate it's the ultimate fate of everyone. It doesn't even really make sense to say that it's the worst fate because its just an inevitability. And I could go off on another whole topic with what you said about death being the worst possible fate for anyone. That's obviously not true because if it was then people wouldn't commit suicide.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 21, 2008 19:15:40 GMT -5
I always thought the "fate worse than death" line was overly dramatic. People commit suicide for all kinds of stupid reasons. It realy doesnt justify or prove much.
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Silver-Angel!
Meng
"Time is a great teacher. To bad it kills all of it's students."
Posts: 253
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Post by Silver-Angel! on Aug 21, 2008 19:34:37 GMT -5
I always thought the "fate worse than death" line was overly dramatic. People commit suicide for all kinds of stupid reasons. It realy doesnt justify or prove much. It's true that people kill themselves for stupid reasons that don't matter, or they even do it on accident. And it is a bit dramatic. However,the point is that usually people that do commit suicide find death to be a better option then whatever it is they are facing. And to them, whatever they are facing is "worse than death". It's as plain and simple as that, and it's totally justified.
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Post by Scarlett Ember on Aug 21, 2008 20:54:23 GMT -5
I think the suicide debate is getting into a different topic. That has to do with someone taking their own life, not the life of someone else. I know it relates in that they end their life because it seems better than what they have to deal with in their life, but it all comes back to one person determining their own fate.
The whole thing with Aang taking Ozai's bending and not killing him didn't seem to me to have anything to do with what fate was worse. Aang didn't take his life because of his own belief that it was wrong. That's why it bothered me, because Aang made the decision based on his own values and not necessarily what was best for the world. I'm not trying to argue that his values or wrong, and I think trying to find a solution without killing Ozai wasn't even a bad thing. But the fact that he wasn't willing to sacrifice his own beliefs for the sake of the world is what made the ending...less epic for me.
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Post by dragonflly on Aug 21, 2008 22:36:49 GMT -5
^^Scarlett Ember, I must say that I love your siggy! I stayed up last night to watch that match and they are truely unstoppable!!!
Ok, back on topic!
I agree with Scarlett Ember on why I also thought the end was less epic than it could have been. The Guru made a huge point about sacrifice and such and it weighed so heavily on everyone's mind that in the end, it was disappointing to see he didn't give up anything. It all went his way, there was no sacrifice. As a matter of fact, like stated above, he REFUSED to sacrifice anything, even for the good of the world. The entire Gaang was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to end the war, but Aang refused himself to sacrifice a thing.
That was upsetting to me, there was so many sacrifices, but not on the hero's end.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 21, 2008 22:39:22 GMT -5
@se- I understand, SE. Thats why I previously responded with a quote from a play to point out why the one thing you cannot sacrifice is your beliefs. This one's a bit more famous: "This above all: to thine own self be true." Ozai's death would have been the solution that Ozai himself would have approved of in the Avatar's place. Ozai more or less said so himself when he commented on how weak Aang was. I like the fact that Aang found a way to solve the matter that the previous Avatars couldnt conceive of. To me, that makes him more unique and more of a hero and the ending more interesting and "epic" from the usual endings for such stories.
@sa-From a purely subjective point of view, anything can be justified. Most people who fail in their attempts to commit suicide later come to regret their actions. The successful ones cant tell you if theyre as better off dead as they expected to be at the time they killed themselves.
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Post by conspiracytheorist on Aug 22, 2008 11:52:17 GMT -5
What went through his mind was actually the exact opposite. Killing Ozai was the one thing he would not do, and why is that? Because taking another person's life, to Aang, was unforgivable. DEATH was the worst fate that he could have given to the Fire Lord... Aang didn't want to kill Fire Lord Ozai because he didn't believe in taking away life from a person. He felt that it was not his right to decide if a person should live or die. It's not because he felt that killing was the worst thing you could do to a person. It's not so much the death in itself as it is the taking away of life... that is murder, that spooked him. He was thinking that nobody deserves to have their life taken away against their will by anything other than natural causes. Yes murder was unforgivable to Aang, we know that. But that still doesn't mean he felt death was the worst fate a person could have. All it means was murder was unforgivable to Aang... obviously. Him not killing Ozai had nothing to do with fate, so I don't even understand why you said that. Besides, death isnt even fate at all. Well actually, if you want to consider it fate it's the ultimate fate of everyone. It doesn't even really make sense to say that it's the worst fate because its just an inevitability. And I could go off on another whole topic with what you said about death being the worst possible fate for anyone. That's obviously not true because if it was then people wouldn't commit suicide. 1) The death/fate argument shouldn't be brought into play here - that's not what I was insinuating. In the fight scene between Aang and Ozai, Aang was ultimately in control of Ozai's "fate" because he had him at his mercy. That's all I meant to communicate. 2) Okay, so you realize that murder was unforgivable to Aang. Now take the next step. Why did he think that it was unforgivable? Why couldn't he bring himself to do it? Because, as Yangchen explained, all life is sacred. And if you hold dear the notion that all life is sacred, then there is no "fate" worse than death. Murder, being the ultimate sin within that sort of belief system, trumps taking away somebody's bending in terms of punishment (to the point where the former is not allowed). Because the purpose of this topic is to demonstrate that stealing Ozai's firebending was a more fitting punishment than death, I set out to demonstrate that such reasoning was irrelevant - not to prove anything about fate or destiny or suicide. Let's leave that for another topic.
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Post by zukofan22 on Aug 24, 2008 5:29:15 GMT -5
Although I wanted to see Ozai die, I realized it was more fitting. Now he gets to spend the rest of his life in disgrace while his so-called failure of a son ruled the country.
btw, you can't compare Aang's taking his firebending away to bloodbending.
Hama simply did this to torture her FN prisoners. Aang wasn't torturing Ozai. Only doing what was neccesarry to stop him.
There's a bad side to everything, including the Avatar. Was that the right thing for him to do? Maybe, maybe not, but that's what makes him human.
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Post by sasuke657 on Aug 27, 2008 22:12:11 GMT -5
Ozai's Punishment: A Fate Worse than Death ...... well, he could of put him with haru worst punishment evar
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 28, 2008 1:40:43 GMT -5
Ozai's Punishment: A Fate Worse than Death ...... well, he could of put him with haru worst punishment evar Just how is putting Ozai with "Sexyfine" a punishment for Ozai?
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Post by sasuke657 on Aug 28, 2008 18:30:32 GMT -5
eh, haru is like not normal and yeah.... u probly dont get it
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Post by Avatar:The Dawning Of Darkness on Oct 4, 2008 14:41:22 GMT -5
I honestly think aang was a total wuss... I'm glad all his people are dead... And I'm glad they will never be back... And even if aang has kids theres only a 1/3 chance they will be an airbender... And theres no way that one airbender could re-populate and entire nation... So aang will be the last airbender, unless he has an airbending kid... Then when he dies, his kid will be the last... and so on... So, there will be only 1 airbender left, which is aang... then 2 left, aang and his kid... maybe 3, aang, his kid, and his grandkid... then back to 2... when aang dies, and so on... One day the avatar will be gone forever because the cycle will be broken... And all because the air nomads werent nomads at all... Nomads wander... They dont stay in temples... They even knew war was upon them... But they didnt send airbenders to the earth kingdoms or water tribes... They most likely didnt even fight back... Because aang and his people were such wusses...
Aang should have killed ozai... But thats ok, because hitler was dangerious... And he couldnt firebend... I'm sure ozai could find a way to do damage... Or could re-learn firebending... Kinda like the ending to x men 3, if you know what I'm talking about...
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Oct 4, 2008 19:29:34 GMT -5
I think Ozai should be sentenced to death. Seriously, If we captured a tyrannic leader today who raged war on the entire world and then made a plan to burn everything except his/her home country, would we not sentence him/her to death?
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random bender
Appa
Gone for ever back again! are you happy? ^^
Posts: 201
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Post by random bender on Oct 4, 2008 21:36:51 GMT -5
I think Ozai should be sentenced to death. Seriously, If we captured a tyrannic leader today who raged war on the entire world and then made a plan to burn everything except his/her home country, would we not sentence him/her to death? Every one deserves a second chance, even Ozai. What if you had the same attitude toward zuko when he was bad? he would possible be dead! and also to add Iroh, the wise old man we all know and love, was the first to attack and brake threw the walls of Ba sing sa killing 1000 maybe!!!! AND LOOK AT HIM! Ozai may be the bad guy for now but half the story or all of the story is about destiny, maybe Ozai may want to find he true destiny. I honestly think aang was a total wuss... I'm glad all his people are dead... And I'm glad they will never be back... And even if aang has kids theres only a 1/3 chance they will be an airbender... And theres no way that one airbender could re-populate and entire nation... So aang will be the last airbender, unless he has an airbending kid... Then when he dies, his kid will be the last... and so on... So, there will be only 1 airbender left, which is aang... then 2 left, aang and his kid... maybe 3, aang, his kid, and his grandkid... then back to 2... when aang dies, and so on... One day the avatar will be gone forever because the cycle will be broken... And all because the air nomads werent nomads at all... Nomads wander... They dont stay in temples... They even knew war was upon them... But they didnt send airbenders to the earth kingdoms or water tribes... They most likely didnt even fight back... Because aang and his people were such wusses... Aang should have killed ozai... But thats ok, because hitler was dangerious... And he couldnt firebend... I'm sure ozai could find a way to do damage... Or could re-learn firebending... Kinda like the ending to x men 3, if you know what I'm talking about... Azula!!!!!
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Oct 6, 2008 20:28:48 GMT -5
I think Ozai should be sentenced to death. Seriously, If we captured a tyrannic leader today who raged war on the entire world and then made a plan to burn everything except his/her home country, would we not sentence him/her to death? I think its important to remember that Aang was not acting as a human agent for justice but as the Avatar which has been described as the spirit of the planet reincarnated in human form and the link between the human world and the Spirit World. His duty was to restore the balance of the world which trancended human justice although there was judgement to be made. I rewatched a part of the film "An Inconvenient Truth" the other day and thinking about how humanity has so quickly eroded the natural balance of this world and how I (as part of humanity) have contributed to that mess, I could almost imagine an Avatar saying to me "Asian-Malaysian, you and your forefathers have devastated the balance of this world, and now you shall pay the ultimate price." before unleashing some tsunami, hurricane or raging fire at me. It was a scary thought.
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