Lion Turtle Theory

[sla]

So there was a lot of questions about the lion turtle like...what the hell was it, why was it so wise, and how did it just make aang "disappear"? So I thought about how earlier in the series we've found out that Badger moles were the original earthbenders, sky bison's were the original airbenders, and dragons were the original firebenders. Well my idea is the lion turtle was the original avatar. Thoughts?

[SpiritBender]

I think that the lion turtle is a type of creature known as a "great old one". If you've read any H.P. Lovecraft (the Cthulu Mythos), you'll know what I'm talking about. Basically, they are creatures that are far, far, FAR older than humanity. They are far more complex/evolved than we are, and are essentially immortal. What it told Aang was that "In the era before the avatar, we bent not the elements, but the energy inside ourselves." Essentially, before the elemental bending disciplines were created, there were benders of "spirit", or "quintessence" -- the element behind all elements. Aang is probably the first human being in the Avaverse to ever do it, and it probably creates an entire new dimension to the avatar spirit and bending in general. Who knows -- maybe in future series, we may see "spirit bending" or something like that.

-- Spiritbender

[zteakaaang]

well than who are the original water benders?

[spiritmage234]

SpiritBender: Yeah. I was thinking along that line too.

After all, it's a giant creature that has the ability to engage in intelligent/philisophical human conversation.

Momo sure can't do that.

@zteakaang: Well, the Ocean Spirt and the Moon Spirit did incarnate themselves into the form of a living creature i.e. koi fish, and who knew how long ago THAT transpired....

[sla]

Yeah they don't really say the original waterbenders

[paleiko]

According to Roku, they crossed over from the Spirit-World to our world "very near the beginning".

I wonder how long the era before the Avatar was... And whom the turtle meant by saying "We bent the energy...". I don't think that humans ever possessed this ability before.

Another interesting question: Why did the Worlds spirit decide to incarnate as the Avatar?

[~*Tea Sage*~]

I don't think the avatar was originally a turtle lion. Like spiritbender, I just think of him as the "mystical wise and old creature" pretty much a hermit of the avatar world.

The avatar I think is just this universal spirit, that manifested itself in human form, to bring order and harmony, during times of chaos and absolute separation.

I think in the finale, when Aang was in his avatar state, he said before there was the avatar, we (people) bend not the elements, but energy. I'm assuming that the Lion Turtle is one of the oldest creature in the Avatar-world, thus his wisdom and knowledge surpass all of the avatar that came before aang, who forget about the lost form of spiritbending.

In the clip were we saw the turtle touching aang's chest and head, I believe he was spiritbending, while I don't believe it was to power-mod aang, I believe he was just showing Aang that it is possible. The lion turtle left aang with a cryptic message, that told him the secret to spirit bend, it was up to Aang to figure it out the secret, and at the last moment when he fought Ozai, he figured it out.

So that being said, I think its possible that the power of spiritbending can be obtain by anyone. But in order for one to accomplish that he has to have break the illusion of seperation, be of pure heart, and strong spirit. B

ut I'm assuming that it may take more than a life time for many people to obtain or master this art, this is why the Lion Turtle and Aang could do it, because they have lived so many lifetime. Could explain why Aang had to do it in his avatar state, when he as all of the power and knowledge of the previous avatar before him. Who knows......lol....can we ask BRYKE?! LOL

[MasterEcabob]

But Aang didn't do it in the Avatar State, in fact, he was likely only able to do it because he wasn't in the Avatar State. If he had remained in it, his past lives would have forced Aang to kill Ozai. However, in coming out of the Avatar State, Aang was able to make his own decision and spiritbend.

Or something like that . . .

[paleiko]

I don't think so. The turtle showed him how to spiritbend and I think that he was actually aware of this knowlegde, but hesitated, because it was not as safe as killing Ozai. The Avatar Spirit itself could have been corrupted by Ozai, so it was a really dangerous thing to do.
I doubt that the past lives can take over the Avatar against his will.

[dgw2008]

i think that the lion turtle are just powerful animal and that they have a powerful power to bend energy and that they were not the original avatar they said that theyy dont bend elements

[Azula's Flames]

I had the impression that the lion turtle was the embodiment of the world its self kinda like a spirit but not because he was part of the normal world, dare I say it but maybe he was an Avatar God??

[asian malaysian]

I think the idea is that you only get a sense of a particular aspect of the Avatar Universe at any given point in time;that it is not given for you to be able to grasp the whole reality of it. I think the Lion Turtle functions as a reminder of this. That the functional explanation may not always be the complete or even wholly correct one. That, in fact, the phrasing of the question may cause the qustioner to miss the point all together.

[liz6363]

Jul 21, 2008 15:46:28 GMT -5 Azula's Flames said:

I had the impression that the lion turtle was the embodiment of the world its self kinda like a spirit but not because he was part of the normal world, dare I say it but maybe he was an Avatar God??

That makes alot of sense considering one of the oldest legends (native american maybe?) of the beginning of life was that the world was grown out of the soil on the back of a giant turtle.

[avatarjanicki]

The Lion Turtle is a creature that Aang had some knowledge of. If you remember in "The Library" when the Gaang (minus toph) were looking through some of the collection Aang was looking through a picture book and points out to the group, "Hey, look at all these Lion Turtle things." So Aang had some knowledge about them. It didn't look like there was any writing in this book, but then again we only see 2 pages. 1 page of the Lion Turtle and briefly the page before, which looks like something in a circle.

I also believe that the Lion Turtle was originally from Ember Island. That was where the Gaang was before the final showdown. The Lion Turtle appeared in the night, calling to Aang. Aang, half in a sleep world followed toward the Turtle. We know this creature is very ancient, and could possibly be the oldest animal in the world for he lived "in the time before the avatar we were not bending elements but the energy from inside us". It wouldn't be hard to speculate that this particular creature was there in the beginning possibly knowing a few avatars besides Aang.

The Lion Turtle helped Aang a lot. Besides being able to tell Aang how to unbend an element out of a human, Aang learned that all of his past lives are available to him if he looks deep inside himself. I see this Lion Turtle as a symbol for humanity and fate. After all the Turtle did take Aang directly to where Aang needed to be to face Ozai. Universal fate souly found a way to restore balance and offered Aang the knowledge he needed to finally end the war.

Here is what the Lion Turtle says.

(In The Old Masters) : "The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning this time darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purified light. Wait for him. He will come."

(In Avatar Aang): "In the era before the Avatar, we bended not the elements, but the energy within ourselves. To bend another’s energy your own spirit must be unbendable. Or you will be corrupted and destroyed."

Please don't double post.

[attonbitus]

My question would be was this an animal or a spirit? It was highly intelligent like Wa Shi Tong but could be an animal like the Dragons.

The turtle also said "we" about the energy bending. Does "we" mean other turtles or a whole different group of spirits. (spirit war any one )

Personally I felt like the Turtle was a cope out, a lets throw something completely outside of what the viewer would expect. The concept of energy bending/spirit bending is fine but I would have preferred it coming from the 1st Avatar.