historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Jul 18, 2008 17:39:47 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly. I mean, what would Momo...accomplish whilst Sokka and Suki fornicated? I donno maybe they like being watched who knows what the youth of today are up to But by a lemur? That's kinda creepy.
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Post by conspiracytheorist on Jul 18, 2008 17:40:17 GMT -5
Once again, we're seeing the 'work' and not the story unfolding in an organic way. That they made the Zuko Field Trip joke shows they don't even give a hoot about being elegant story tellers anymore. Absolutely 100% agreed, plus karma. I don't really feel like doing one of my large episode summaries at the moment, so let me just speed things up a bit, here: - The opening fight scene came from nowhere, and felt like an excuse to 1) get Hakoda, Chit Sang, Teo, Haru, and The Duke out of the picture, and 2) move the core gang out of the WAT. - Katara's angsting and Zuko's angsting over Katara's angsting weren't particularly exciting to watch. Katara's death threat at the end of WAT made it clear to anyone with half a brain that she still doesn't trust him. I would have preferred a scenario in which Zuko is alone when everybody else is asleep, and Katara wakes up, troubled by a dream, or maybe she never got to sleep, whatever. So she sees him sitting alone, takes a deep breath, and decides to sit down next to him to communicate what she's feeling (like the mature young woman that she has demonstrated herself to be in the past) - and then everything can blow up between the two of them. Instead of Katara getting in such lame cheap shots whenever she can and Zuko freaking out about her opinion of him (when he should be more worried about saving the fricking world), and both of their characters appearing pretty gimpy in the process, we could have had a decent dialog between the two of them. - Zuko miraculously knowing who killed Katara's mom is not only a blatant duct taping of that particular plot point, but I feel that it's also far too late to be messing around with that kind of stuff. At the end of the episode, I felt like I had just spent twenty-two minutes of my life watching Katara finally get to the point where she could give Zuko a hug. If that's all I'm going to get, don't bother when we're so close to the series' end. - Aang vs Zuko/Katara on the forgiveness versus revenge thing... I want to be lenient. There were some bright spots. Katara lashing out at Sokka by claiming that he didn't love his mother the way she did was gritty, and it got my attention. Zuko's Air Nomad preschool quip was humorous and unexpected. And "this is the real world" reared its normally-ugly head, only this time it had showered and shaved. But in the end, Aang's argument was not compelling enough to make me feel that Katara was in the wrong, or weak enough to make me feel that Katara was in the right. This sort ambiguity could be classified as complex and thought-provoking, but in the context of "The Southern Raiders," it was simply weak, especially considering everything else that went on in the episode. - If Katara doesn't use bloodbending in "The Ember Island Players" or at any point in the four-part season finale, my Puppetmaster love is going to die off a little. Which is bad, because it's one of this season's better episodes, as far as a carefully crafted story goes. Why introduce such an interesting and potentially groundbreaking element to the story when all you're going to do is blow it on some second-rate Fire Nation flunkie? - So they finally find the ex-Southern Raiders leader, and it turns out he's a miserable-looking mama's boy? Yeah, the emotional impact of Katara confronting her mother's killer was kind of ruined by that fact. And that line, "You can kill my mother and we'll call it even." I don't even know what to make of that. A lot of folks are saying that it makes him a despicable old man, but go back and watch again. He's trying to make a joke - which means that the writers were trying to make a joke. But it's not funny. The only reason his mother is included in the episode at all is to give him a chance to wander around a while before Katara and Zuko ambush him like ninjas, so that the ensuing fight doesn't seem as random and ill-timed as the battle at the beginning of the episode. Don't make some joke about her being a slavedriver when her only purpose was to kill time. (Funny how a lot of people said this episode deserved an hour - it didn't even deserve thirty minutes, by the way - and they had to burn a couple minutes just so that the skip from Zuko and Katara on the ship to Zuko and Katara at the dude's house wouldn't seem disjointed.) - And finally, the ending, where Katara learns that it is better to forgive than to hold a grudge and let it take you down revenge road. But wait! She didn't really grasp that at all. But she did give Zuko a hug! DUCT TAPE. This episode joins "The Painted Lady", "The Beach", and "Nightmares and Daydreams" in the lowest tier that book three has to offer. I'm too critical, etc etc. EDIT: Oh, and how could I forget Katara's, "Let's do this." I seriously wanted to die after I heard that line. Ugh.
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Post by ZamKenobi on Jul 18, 2008 18:05:23 GMT -5
- And finally, the ending, where Katara learns that it is better to forgive than to hold a grudge and let it take you down revenge road. But wait! She didn't really grasp that at all. But she did give Zuko a hug! DUCT TAPE. I agree with almost everything you said but this stuck out to me in particular. I feel like you hit the nail on the dead. Honestly, nothing changed with Katara except that she figured out that she couldn't kill the person who killed her mother...which anyone who knows her pretty much should know already. She didn't forgive him, she was still just as angry from the look on her face, and yet she found closure and forgave Zuko? How does that make any sense? This episode joins "The Painted Lady", "The Beach", and "Nightmares and Daydreams" in the lowest tier that book three has to offer. I'm too critical, etc etc. Never thought I'd say this, but I agree (not about agreeing with you, but that this episode was that bad). I semi-enjoyed it, but looking over it, it was just a huge letdown. I thought I was just overhyping it so obviously I was disappointed, which is partially true, but it was also just a bad episode. Zuko's character was raped in this episode To end on a positive note (I guess), I did enjoy the action scene in the beginning. Sure, it only served to get rid of the extra baggage, but it was still interesting. I also felt worse for Hakoda than anyone else in the flashbacks. It just seemed like he would be more guilty since he didn't make it in time.
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Post by zukofan22 on Jul 18, 2008 19:58:40 GMT -5
While it was epic, I thought it was rushed. It should have been a two-parter like TBR was.
About the old man: What did you expect? I think life gave him what he deserved. He was kicked out of the military and he's now a weak, old man who's probably poor and he lives with a mother who constantly whines a lot. He looks like he doesn't eat well at all. He's basically a peasant now.
Sometimes, you don't need to stick your enemies with pointy things to call it revenge. Besides, how would her mother feel knowing her daughter had willingly tracked down an aging, retired FN soldier and slew him after an ambush in the woods?
It seems off because in most cases, we'd expect it to be this huge argument between the hero and the villain who killed said hero's parents before this big epic battle commenced. But truthfully, revenge isn't going to solve it, and it's not as romanticized as Hollywood protrays it. If she had killed him, she would have nothing to show for it. Sometimes it's just best to let it go. He was retired, not hurting anyone anymore, and he was old.
What I am amazed is: Why the heck did Hadoka not go with Katara? Wouldn't he have wanted to go since it was his WIFE that had been killed? It was like: "Sure, Katara. Go avenge Kya for us. We'll stay here and guard the camp."
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Post by fufucuddlypops on Jul 18, 2008 20:14:51 GMT -5
I dont think hakoda knew they were going. Notice how ninja sneaky they were?
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Post by holyninja on Jul 18, 2008 20:26:27 GMT -5
Hakoda, the Duke, Haru, Chit-Sang, and Teo weren't even at the camp I don't think... They split up at the WAT and we never saw them again after that.
I don't even see why Hakoda didn't go on Appa with them when they fled. Sokka grabbed Suki but not his own father? I thought it was a bit odd.
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luna
Appa
Posts: 206
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Post by luna on Jul 18, 2008 21:43:54 GMT -5
Once again, we're seeing the 'work' and not the story unfolding in an organic way. That they made the Zuko Field Trip joke shows they don't even give a hoot about being elegant story tellers anymore. Absolutely 100% agreed, plus karma. I don't really feel like doing one of my large episode summaries at the moment, so let me just speed things up a bit, here: - The opening fight scene came from nowhere, and felt like an excuse to 1) get Hakoda, Chit Sang, Teo, Haru, and The Duke out of the picture, and 2) move the core gang out of the WAT. - Katara's angsting and Zuko's angsting over Katara's angsting weren't particularly exciting to watch. Katara's death threat at the end of WAT made it clear to anyone with half a brain that she still doesn't trust him. I would have preferred a scenario in which Zuko is alone when everybody else is asleep, and Katara wakes up, troubled by a dream, or maybe she never got to sleep, whatever. So she sees him sitting alone, takes a deep breath, and decides to sit down next to him to communicate what she's feeling (like the mature young woman that she has demonstrated herself to be in the past) - and then everything can blow up between the two of them. Instead of Katara getting in such lame cheap shots whenever she can and Zuko freaking out about her opinion of him (when he should be more worried about saving the fricking world), and both of their characters appearing pretty gimpy in the process, we could have had a decent dialog between the two of them. - Zuko miraculously knowing who killed Katara's mom is not only a blatant duct taping of that particular plot point, but I feel that it's also far too late to be messing around with that kind of stuff. At the end of the episode, I felt like I had just spent twenty-two minutes of my life watching Katara finally get to the point where she could give Zuko a hug. If that's all I'm going to get, don't bother when we're so close to the series' end. - Aang vs Zuko/Katara on the forgiveness versus revenge thing... I want to be lenient. There were some bright spots. Katara lashing out at Sokka by claiming that he didn't love his mother the way she did was gritty, and it got my attention. Zuko's Air Nomad preschool quip was humorous and unexpected. And "this is the real world" reared its normally-ugly head, only this time it had showered and shaved. But in the end, Aang's argument was not compelling enough to make me feel that Katara was in the wrong, or weak enough to make me feel that Katara was in the right. This sort ambiguity could be classified as complex and thought-provoking, but in the context of "The Southern Raiders," it was simply weak, especially considering everything else that went on in the episode. - If Katara doesn't use bloodbending in "The Ember Island Players" or at any point in the four-part season finale, my Puppetmaster love is going to die off a little. Which is bad, because it's one of this season's better episodes, as far as a carefully crafted story goes. Why introduce such an interesting and potentially groundbreaking element to the story when all you're going to do is blow it on some second-rate Fire Nation flunkie? - So they finally find the ex-Southern Raiders leader, and it turns out he's a miserable-looking mama's boy? Yeah, the emotional impact of Katara confronting her mother's killer was kind of ruined by that fact. And that line, "You can kill my mother and we'll call it even." I don't even know what to make of that. A lot of folks are saying that it makes him a despicable old man, but go back and watch again. He's trying to make a joke - which means that the writers were trying to make a joke. But it's not funny. The only reason his mother is included in the episode at all is to give him a chance to wander around a while before Katara and Zuko ambush him like ninjas, so that the ensuing fight doesn't seem as random and ill-timed as the battle at the beginning of the episode. Don't make some joke about her being a slavedriver when her only purpose was to kill time. (Funny how a lot of people said this episode deserved an hour - it didn't even deserve thirty minutes, by the way - and they had to burn a couple minutes just so that the skip from Zuko and Katara on the ship to Zuko and Katara at the dude's house wouldn't seem disjointed.) - And finally, the ending, where Katara learns that it is better to forgive than to hold a grudge and let it take you down revenge road. But wait! She didn't really grasp that at all. But she did give Zuko a hug! DUCT TAPE. This episode joins "The Painted Lady", "The Beach", and "Nightmares and Daydreams" in the lowest tier that book three has to offer. I'm too critical, etc etc. EDIT: Oh, and how could I forget Katara's, "Let's do this." I seriously wanted to die after I heard that line. Ugh. Very well written, I completely agree. I'm trying so hard to focus on the positive and just enjoy what's left of the show, but this season has been such a disappointment to me.
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Post by dragonflly on Jul 18, 2008 22:38:15 GMT -5
I enjoyed it, if for nothing else the awesome bending! I loved the Zuko/Azula fight, that boy has come so far! He was swating away her fire and stayed moving toward her and mounting a defense. He was not intimidated or scared of her one bit! I was so proud!
Katara's bending was also phenominal in this one. I was glad to see her bloodbend again, and the look on Zuko's face! I think he just figured out just how powerful that girl really is!
I didn't like the fact they split up with Hakoda again! It was truely an excuse to get rid of them. I just hope we get ot see at least at little of Hakoda in the finale. Little Katara and Sokka were just adorable, and Kya was so pretty. As soon as I heard her name I was like "That was supposed to be Katara's name!" Clever devils M&B are!
I think the eppie was a bit rushed, but I expected it really. And I agree that it should have taken more for Katara to forgive him, although I'm not complaining. I couldn't stand to hear her be so mean to him. And I so loved the little joke Zuko said at the campfire, he's so adorable! I'm so glad to see how well he's been received by the Gaang. Sokka was so Sokka in this, I loved him. I loved the Sokka tent seen, OMG! How did they get that past Nick censors?!
I also agree that Zuko was projecting his feelings of what his father did to his mother through Katara. They will always have that in common, but now it's truely a bond.
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Post by breisboy on Jul 19, 2008 1:36:15 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to start with the negatives.
First of all, I think Zuko was out of character. I mean I understand that he can relate with Katara about losing his mother, but I think even Zuko should be wise enough to say that violence is not always the answer. I felt like Aang's role in the episode shoud have been given to Zuko as the sort of voice of reason. This would give Katara more of a reason to forgive Zuko.
Second, it was rushed. I kinda wish that it was an hour long episode because it needed that much time. The plot itself seemed like two parts anyways. If split up, the first episode would be Azula's attack on the WAT, their battle, and Zuko finding out that it is the Southern Raiders from Sokka's story. The second episode would be finding the Southern Raiders, the guy who killed Kya, and Katara's forgiveness. A lot of emotion and power had to be cut for the sake of time.
Now onto the positive.
Despite what many people think, I personally think that this episode is not filler. It was a bit of closure to the story about the raid in the south. It answers so many questions that we've been wondering form the start. Who killed Katara's mom? What's her name? What does she look like? Why does she die? Where was Hakoda in all this? Why did they raid the South despite it no longer being a major threat to the Fire Nation? ETC. WIthout this episode, all those questions would linger in our minds.
The action was BEAUTIFUL! Katara hasn't really bended a lot this season so that was nice. Zuko and Azula's fight was awesome. Aren't we proud of the little prince? Not to mention bloodbending (although I do hope she uses it again on someone more important)
Overall I just wish that Zuko was more of a voice of reason and it was longer. Other than that it did satisfy my bending needs, shipping needs, and closure needs. (If thats even proper grammar)
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Post by fufucuddlypops on Jul 19, 2008 8:58:16 GMT -5
Yea i agree with the dude above me. It was a zutara closure episode. It needed to be there.
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mj
Momo
Posts: 29
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Post by mj on Jul 19, 2008 12:06:56 GMT -5
What I like the most about this episode, was the fact that we were able to see some real katara kick some real butt. I remember way back when, (or when I last saw it Monday) with the Waterbending scroll and the original episode, where she just sucked. This episode in particular shows how far she has come throughout the whole story.
IMO, that one part where she stopped all the rain was amazing.
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tokkafanatic14
Sokka
Hardcore Tokkian
If you dis Tokka or Kataang, I will personally come after you with a machete :)
Posts: 125
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Post by tokkafanatic14 on Jul 19, 2008 14:50:57 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode, but with Katara not being able to end her mother's killer's life leaves open the question, "How will she be able to fight and kill during the upcoming battle if she couldn't even end a heartless killer?"
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Jul 19, 2008 15:35:46 GMT -5
Now I know why the rest of weren't with the first gang...because they split up and took on the stolen air balloon.
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Horyo on Jul 19, 2008 16:05:56 GMT -5
Wouldn't being on the stolen aircraft be dangerous?
It's slow
And they're big so easy to spot, so wouldn't Azula just follow them?
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Post by zuko14 on Jul 19, 2008 16:34:23 GMT -5
Wouldn't being on the stolen aircraft be dangerous? It's slow And they're big so easy to spot, so wouldn't Azula just follow them? I dont think so I think she would be more worried about Zuko, Aang and the rest. But who knows she might take them captive or something. That is a good point though.
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