West
Finale Katara
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Post by West on Jul 18, 2008 7:53:19 GMT -5
I really sorta felt bad for Zuko at the beginning of this episode. I know Katara had her reasons for being like that towards him, but she was nasty. =\
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
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Post by nandireya on Jul 18, 2008 7:55:26 GMT -5
About Katara's uber-powerful-ness in this episode...
Doesn't the commentary on The Crossroads of Destiny say that Zuko was so powerful there because he was angry? Perhaps the same is true here.
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West
Finale Katara
Posts: 8,335
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Post by West on Jul 18, 2008 7:58:05 GMT -5
I think that that has proven true for past characters too.
For Aang, when he gets furious, he goes into the Avatar State, aka ultimate power. Toph was mad when she was locked up in The Guru, and she Metal-bended her way out.
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riverbird
Zhao
Flying with the wind
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Post by riverbird on Jul 18, 2008 8:25:27 GMT -5
I don’t think that Zuko was that out of character, while he has gone to the good side, that hasn’t stopped him from trying to harm people. Also when he was pushing Katara to kill the man who killed her mother, he was probably fueling his own anger at his father for taking his mother away, living vicariously through Katara’s actions. Zuko probably really wanted to fight his father, but he realized that it had to be Aang, now we will probably see him channel this towards Aang (got a hint at the end of the ep).
I was ticked at Zuko for mocking Aang on this one, but I am not surprised by Katara’s intense anger. When you look over things she has always been frustrated at having to play the mother type to people, we saw this when she was upset at Sokka for commenting that she was more of a mother to him (he didn’t know she was listening mind you). Not only did she see herself as weak for not being able to help her mother, she has also placed years of anger at having to grow up faster onto this man. All of her anger was focused onto him, and so when she found out she had the chance to end it, she wanted to. At the time she probably assumed it would make her feel better. It wasn’t that random that she let him go in the end either, the first guy she blood bended she probably would have killed if it had been him, but when she realized that it wasn’t him she was not only disappointed, but seemed shocked at her own anger in that moment. She even turned away, as though to give up, but Zuko was the one that pushed the guy for information, showing both that he wanted Katara to have her chance, but also imo to have her release the anger he was holding onto as well.
By the time they did find the guy (which was probably a day or two later realistically) she had time to reflect on her actions. It would have been nice to see a bit of a transition there, but that is what I can assume happened. Not only that, but the man himself was old, feeble and completely pathetic, not only had she had more time to reflect but she also was faced with a man who wasn’t much of a monster has she had always seen him. She didn’t forgive him for his actions, but she realized that killing him would accomplish nothing.
As for the forgiving Zuko at the end, again she had faced her own demon now and was able to reflect on her past actions as well as his. Both of them fuel each others anger at what had happened to their mothers into each other, making it a very unhealthy balance between them. Now with this dealt with, at least on Katara’s side, there is a chance for the two of them to become friends.
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ilovetaang03
Avatar Yangchen
Im a secret AGENT MAN. A SECRET AGENT MAN!!!! (though im a girl)
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Post by ilovetaang03 on Jul 18, 2008 8:43:36 GMT -5
i loved this episode very much! i felt very bad for zuko when katara would not trust him in the beginning. i really like how this whole episode is about zuko gaining katara's trust. also since i am a zutara supporter i loved loved loved him saving her and the hug between them. *spazzy fan girl moment*
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Hama
Gran Gran
Hama: Crazier than Rose Nylund
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Post by Hama on Jul 18, 2008 8:50:01 GMT -5
Alright. Let me try this again. I didn't like this episode much, but there were things I did like...I dunno, let's get this over with.
I liked the Zuko/Azula fight. I like that she shows up, with guns blazing, ready to "Celebrate becoming an only child." She comes on over, like she knew where they were all along.
On the other hand, this isn't much like the Azula I know. Azula doesn't show up with a fleet and announce herself like that. She keeps a constant cool, and that's what's so terrifying about her. It was speculated that Azula's mental state would hit the dumpster after Ty Lee and Mai betrayed her; I think that's what's going on. Either that, or she's trying a new way of messing with her enemies.
I'm sad that the main group (plus Suki!) split off from the rest, but it was probably necessary to the story. Still, it seemed to happen it such a odd and hurried way...I dunno.
I liked that Zuko made a joke and everyone (but Katara) laughed. I like too that Zuko was trying to get Katara to like him. I didn't percieve it as a shippy thing, he'll have to work with this woman in the finale, it would help to have her not hating his guts.
I have mixed feelings about the Zuko/Sokka conversation. First, I do so love any interaction between those too. But I dunno. Sokka's face looked so odd through the whole thing. That's the only thing I could notice. As for Suki going to Sokka's tent well, I was surprised. Kind of a gutsy move for a kids show, applying that a couple of teenagers are going to *hang out in a tent together*. I love it. I'd comment more, but I believe I'd be inappropriate for this particular forum.
The flashbacks were cool, if not a little drawn out. And we finally saw Katara's mom's face. I love that her name is Kya. As for why she died, not surprising. Seems to be a theme, mothers somehow sacrificing themselves for their children.
I kind of lost interest on the whole revenge quest. I guess I feel the same as Aang regarding that kind of stuff. Too bad the kid had to sound so naggy while communicating his point of view. Not just naggy, preachy. Iroh can get away with the wise stuff, but Aang's not so good at it. It came to the point where I was almost siding with the emokids.
Katara out for revenge is kind of an unlikable persona. Actually, Katara's been a little unlikable since Zuko joined the group. Not that I can't see her point of view...anyway, moving on.
Ok, I have mixed feelings about the bloodbending. For one, it upset her so much to use it, I thought she wouldn't again (except for someone who deserved it, like Azula). So the fact that she's willing to bloodbend the guy who she thinks killed her mother shows her passion. But on the other hand, I really wanted to see her use it on someone who deserved it (like Azula). But the comet won't wait a month to come, so I guess she isn't going to. Thirdly, she bloodbended the wrong guy. Weak.
Ah well. It'd be too coinsidental for the comet to come within a day on the full moon.
The guy who did do the crime was really not that interesting at all. A loser, really. It's nice that Katara didn't kill him, but in the end she wasn't sure why, and that leaves me naggingly uncertain too. It's nice that she decided to forgive Zuko, but I'm just not sure how flying off to hunt down and probably kill this loser makes everything all better between them. Anyone want to explain that?
As I said, I just didn't like it that much, but there were moments that I enjoyed. heck, this episode was worth it for the first five minutes and that's it. Sorry to be a little harsh.
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Post by facestealer on Jul 18, 2008 8:55:03 GMT -5
I thought this was a relief from the mediocre episodes we've seen the past few days. The character development was wonderful, and I like how the plot wasn't your formulaiac "avenge your murdered parents" story. Both great and horrible fanart will soon be made out of the Sokka Tent Scene ("Well, hellooo-o )
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
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Post by fuego on Jul 18, 2008 9:15:49 GMT -5
Ship = Cave X Katara + [x]....it seem it the only formuila that works.
Some how, because katara couldn't forgive Zuko was somehow interwine with the past and the reason for this journey that these characters need...I think the journey open up more of Katara then the mission toward Zuko and I think both of these people need that..
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Post by Hinata Uzumaki IS BACK on Jul 18, 2008 9:18:46 GMT -5
Katara's forgiveness came out of nowhere? *shrugs* This it the season for things coming out of nowhere... Agreed. It's a trend in Season 3 apparently. >.> In overall I liked the episode. There were a few things that irritated me and there were a few things I liked. 1) I really liked the beginning of how Zuko is trying his best to gain Katara's trust. He saved her from the falling rocks, he ran after her when she ran away from the campfire, he said he cared what she thinks about him and he waited all night by her tent. As a Zutarian, I really loved those moments but not necessarily with a romantic point-of-view. 2) Azula showing up at WAT, was a bit weird and out of nowhere (the trend). Apparently we have to assume she figured out they were there and that she changed her mind about following them. Last time in DoBS she said, "They'll be back." 3) The Azula vs. Zuko fight was awesome. It really shows Azula is starting to lose it (the whole "only sibling" line) and how much Zuko has improved. And Azula is so pretty when she is on that cliff with her hair down. I must say that when Zuko fell the first time and was able to come back up on a zeppelin, was again weird but whatever. It seemed the zeppelins were all roughly on the same line to attack the Temple then. 4) The Sukka part was awesome. One of the best parts. This coming from someone who likes Tokka more than Sukka.5) Zuko was so OOC after he tells Katara he knows the murderer of her mother. After he pleads for forgivenes in WAT, he's suddenly in anger mode again and is all, "lol goody Aang, let Katara keel him." That annoyed me so much. Aang and Sokka were very mature. Especially Sokka because he was the chauvinistic one and hated everyone from the FN the most in the beginning. And now he was ready to forgive the person who killed his mother. It really showed how much he has grown. Unlike Katara... I swear when she said, "Then you didn't love her the way I did," made me want to slap her. O__o I can understand her rage. I really do. But that does NOT give her the right to say something so horribly mean and low to her own brother. I actually wanted to hug Sokka. ;__;Katara has never been my favourite character but in this episode I really disliked her. Not only because of what she said but also due to the fact that she is overpowered. It's like she's more powerful than Aang and he's the Avatar. 6) The flashbacks were good. Katara and Sokka were so cute when they were young, and their mother was so pretty. I lol'd at the name Kya, it being the original name for Katara. I must say Kya is very brave woman. It was so beautifully heart-wrenching when she sacrificed herself for Katara. I really respect her for it. 7) The murderer was so pathetic. I really thought it would have been more interesting if they made it show that he regrets it all and again showing that war makes people do horrifying things. But no, instead they go with some loser who actually says, "Take my mother then we're even." 8) Katara forgiving Zuko was too rushed and out of nowhere. I really felt that they should have talked first. All they did was go on the mission and it was all about Katara instead of "Zutara". In fact, with Zuko being the one who didn't mind her killing him, didn't really show he actually deserved the forgiveness himself. 9) In overall this episode was good and enjoyable to watch. But it was very rushed. It proves that they shouldn't have wasted 9 whole episodes to more or less fillers in the beginning of S3. Sorry for the long, choppy review. xD I agree with you . The azula thing was random and the katara forgiving him was weird and out of no where. ..but i liked it
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
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Post by Horyo on Jul 18, 2008 9:22:25 GMT -5
but I'm just not sure how flying off to hunt down and probably kill this loser makes everything all better between them. Anyone want to explain that? I think it has to do with the phrase, "It's really the quest; it doesn't matter what happens in the end." Anyways, I'm still surprised that Azula recovered from Ty Lee's strikes, got off the island (when her ship was taken) rounded up a fleet of 5 ships and tracked them down before making it to the Gaang by morning. This is assuming the events in the Southern Raiders transpired right before the events in the Boiling Rock. I'm so sad, the beautiful Air temples ;__;
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
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Post by fuego on Jul 18, 2008 9:28:02 GMT -5
You don't think that Azula knew where they where hideing...I don't see it as random, I see it as smart and cunning to her ideals, Of course in our eyes and the gangs as well, it was surprise and random that it happen. Again things aren't out of no where...I mean the Sokka/Suki thing could be seen as out of nowhere but people didn't have a problem with that.
But Katara going on her own journey(with Zuko) and be able to learn from it in which resulted in forgiveness...yeah that out of nowhere...don't people follow the storylines any more?
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Post by spiritmage234 on Jul 18, 2008 9:26:52 GMT -5
Yeah. This whole season, I felt a lot of "rushiness" on Katara's part. First with the RAWR powerful-ness (which I guess I'm just going to have to accept), and with the forgiveness of Zuko. I mean, I'm glad that she finally did, but it did seem a little, out of it. I always thought that she would more likely forgive Zuko during the finale or something. But the character mishap is wierd. It was just so odd that Sokka - having a very harsh resentment toward the Fire Nation since season 1 - forgave Zuko before Katara - who always gave the benefit of the doubt to just about everyone/everything. But I guess that's just Katara's characterization. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Or maybe in Katara's case it's more of the, "Only Buddha raises his hand three times" proverb (or something like that. I forgot how it exactly went. ) But yeah. Katara second most complicated character. First is Zuko and runner-up is Azula.
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Post by Empy on Jul 18, 2008 9:28:34 GMT -5
To me, this was a good episode and enjoyable to watch but it did feel rushed. Everything was just happening so fast but I don't really think that was the main problem I had with the episode. Like Kohana, I was a little disappointed with the characterization today. So I'll just go over the likes and dislikes:
Likes: The fights- They were well, epic. I agree with Hama that the fight with Azula really shows how much Zuko improved not to mention just the setting made the fight really awesome. I thought the ending to the fight, where Zuko saw that of course, Azula did make it, was somehow fitting. That's just my opinion though.
The Sukka- OMG that was just so adorable. I do love Tukka and I thought it was done in a really sweet way. ^^; I was a little surprised that they reference two teens... sneaking around... in a tent together... but hey, hopefully most little kids won't understand the innuendo while us older folk have much to lol about xDDD
Aang- I thought he sounded really mature today, like the Avatar he is. Him and Sokka to me displayed the most maturity in this episode for being the voice of reason against this revenge quest. I like Aang more mature because he has had to grow up fast considering the situation but it seems in the next episode he reverts back to 12 year oldness... *sigh*
Zuko (beginning)- I thought Zuko had some great moments towards the beginning of the episode and I do think that his attempts to really gain the trust and acceptance of everyone is endearing. As I said above, his fight with Azula was pretty epic so I did like Zuko up until planning for revenge!quest.
Dislikes: Katara- I can understand her anger, I can but to me she was out of line when she said to Sokka "Then you didn't love her like I did". WHOA that was so rude and callous I was shocked. I mean, that line stuck out to me because it just struck me as selfish. I think Katara let all the pent up rage and hurt just bubble over today and maybe it was necessary but I would think after she saw what happened to Aang in the Desert and at the Southern Air Temple, she would know it's better not to let your anger control your actions. Gah, all these kids with anger issues... they're so going to have high blood pressure in the future... though maybe Katara won't because she can bloodbend...
Bringing me to my next point The bloodbending- I really was disappointed when Katara used bloodbending. I was hoping that she'd never have to use it (and from her reaction to learning how to use it I thought she might not ever use it) but then she had to bloodbend and it was even the wrong guy! Eh, it just seemed really lame IMO and I was not pleased with that at all.
The Dude (Can't remember his name)- Alright, well when we first saw him in the flashback I thought he would be a downright evil dude. Then when we saw him being heckled in the garden, I thought he'd be a decent guy however he just turned out to be a loser who apparently hates his mom (D<). Wow. They could have done so much with this character and they made him a groveling mess? I think that if they HAD made him a good guy, it would have had more impact because it would show that good people do make mistakes/bad things in times of war. But no... you don't feel sorry for him, you only feel disgust.
The forgiveness- Eh, to me Katara's forgiveness was liek... a little random. It was just like you helped me almost kill a guy who killed my mom... LUFF AND HAPPY BUTTERFLIES. It just felt rushed and not right to me but that's just my opinion =P I think it was good she did finally forgive Zuko but I don't think going on a little quest for revenge was the best way to do it.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jul 18, 2008 9:48:20 GMT -5
i agree everything was rushed and katara once again disapoints me first when she refuses to split up. her head is so screwed up with her own problems she can't fathom the consequences if she had got caught on their raid. it could have endangered the fight with the firelord. but personnal issues come first i guess.
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Post by Kohana on Jul 18, 2008 9:51:48 GMT -5
@empy: Agreed. But you already know that I agree with you on this episode. As for Katara forgiving Zuko, I can understand that she does it because she had learned from the revenge quest. She realized she was blaming Zuko for everything the FN did to her because he has always been the face of the enemy in her eyes (see CoD). And she realised he has grown and that he isn't the one responsible for her mother's death. Though it felt rushed because he was the one tempting her with the dark side. He was the one who came up with the revenge plan and encouraged her. It would have been more realistic if it was just the two of them discussing it in the end and realising their mistake and apologizing to the other. I don’t think that Zuko was that out of character, while he has gone to the good side, that hasn’t stopped him from trying to harm people. I don't know. Back when Zuko desperately wanted his father's love, he had to capture the Avatar to accomplish that. The main person who stood in his way was Zhao, who was set on capturing "the prize" himself. Zuko got the chance to get rid of his competition twice. In The Southern Air Temple, he could hurt or end him at the time. And in The Siege of the North, he stepped up and extended his hand to help him. It showed that Zuko knows compassion and isn't the blood-thirsty type. Even on his Avatar quest, he never intended to kill him or anyone else. Zuko has never been so ruthless even when he was the "villain". Yes, he was most likely channeling his own sadness and anger on Katara's anger and yes, he was desperate to get on Katara's good side. But just a day before that, he showed concern for Azula, his psycho-sister who has bullied him for so many years. So it just felt a bit misplaced that he was the one to come up with the revenge plan.
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