historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Aug 2, 2008 14:31:11 GMT -5
eyah bu that isn't flip-flopping that isnt a complete trunaround. that is tweaking his opinion because of new information. he still wants the troops to get out of iraq and he still is pro-choice. DC gun ban good for him i don't think guns should be banned. McCain flip completley from being against torture to for torture. went from looking for immigration reform to putting up the wall. McCain went from voting against tax cuts to voting for tax cuts. that is flip flopping as a republican i thought you would be more familiar with the word seeing as what you did to John Kerry in 2004. another thing on McCain one of his campaign managers said the public is whining to much about the economy. well shouldn't we be we are in a recession aren't we. yet McCain continues to deny that. out of all the republicans McCain used to be the one i respected the most but after what he has been saying recently i am ashamed. Well I wasn't exactly a political animal in '04, given that I was ten. Actually, a flip-flop isn't a complete turnaround, it's a change in position. Obama has turned around on the surge. He went from saying it's a disaster to praising its success in 5 months! The man's had 5 opinions in as many months! I do not want that man as president. Monday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Tuesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Wednesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." And so on and so forth.
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Post by CountessRachel on Aug 2, 2008 22:24:15 GMT -5
Better than a president who gets new information and doesn't alter any change in plans at all, knowing good, durn well that that info needs to affect the current action at hand.
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Post by Consonant*** on Aug 4, 2008 21:58:19 GMT -5
eyah bu that isn't flip-flopping that isnt a complete trunaround. that is tweaking his opinion because of new information. he still wants the troops to get out of iraq and he still is pro-choice. DC gun ban good for him i don't think guns should be banned. McCain flip completley from being against torture to for torture. went from looking for immigration reform to putting up the wall. McCain went from voting against tax cuts to voting for tax cuts. that is flip flopping as a republican i thought you would be more familiar with the word seeing as what you did to John Kerry in 2004. another thing on McCain one of his campaign managers said the public is whining to much about the economy. well shouldn't we be we are in a recession aren't we. yet McCain continues to deny that. out of all the republicans McCain used to be the one i respected the most but after what he has been saying recently i am ashamed. Well I wasn't exactly a political animal in '04, given that I was ten. Actually, a flip-flop isn't a complete turnaround, it's a change in position. Obama has turned around on the surge. He went from saying it's a disaster to praising its success in 5 months! The man's had 5 opinions in as many months! I do not want that man as president. Monday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Tuesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Wednesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." And so on and so forth. But one must take account out the circumstances behind his "flip-flop". Five months ago, the surge had very little effect on the state of things in Iraq, and it was very likely that the positive growth could be attributed to other recent actions we'd taken in Iraq (For instance, certain unstable truces with certain backstabbing militias). Now, of course, the surge is providing for a broader American presence in the country, which is not a solution. Throughout the occupation, Americans have done the job and done it well wherever they were stationed. Unfortunately, once a city or region is secure, we leave it in the hands of the Iraqi police force, and everything goes to hell, so we have to return and stabilize, leave, return, etc. Nothing is going to be accomplished until we can gain the trust of the Iraqis and motivate them to reject the hatred between the Sunni, Kurdish and Shi'ite people. And I am incredibly skeptical that we will be able to accomplish this within the time period the Democrats want when even we as Americans have yet to overcome such barriers in our own culture.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Aug 5, 2008 8:02:08 GMT -5
Better than a president who gets new information and doesn't alter any change in plans at all, knowing good, durn well that that info needs to affect the current action at hand. This ignoring the fact that Bush did change his plans for Iraq of course?
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Post by hh0ru5ma5ha11u5 on Aug 5, 2008 18:45:33 GMT -5
Historyman12 is correct, when new information comes into prospect, the President should be the first one to 'get the ball rolling,' if you will....
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Post by Kylie on Aug 5, 2008 20:59:02 GMT -5
Neither, I'm voting third party if anything.
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Post by mikael on Aug 7, 2008 23:28:43 GMT -5
Better than a president who gets new information and doesn't alter any change in plans at all, knowing good, durn well that that info needs to affect the current action at hand. This ignoring the fact that Bush did change his plans for Iraq of course? The correct plan was not going. Having gone, there wasn't much he could do to fix it. I should also mention that the man has no military command experience. The guy has no idea what he's doing... And neither do the people he likes to put in charge.
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Post by Consonant*** on Aug 8, 2008 13:32:38 GMT -5
Historyman12 is correct, when new information comes into prospect, the President should be the first one to 'get the ball rolling,' if you will.... Should being the operative word there.
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Post by Harem Gurl on Aug 8, 2008 13:47:36 GMT -5
This ignoring the fact that Bush did change his plans for Iraq of course? The correct plan was not going. Having gone, there wasn't much he could do to fix it. I should also mention that the man has no military command experience. The guy has no idea what he's doing... And neither do the people he likes to put in charge. personally i watned hillary to be president. you talk of obama rite? well he has no military experience or any true proposals he mite enact. he's a politician trying and too young to know ezactly whats hes doing.
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Post by CountessRachel on Aug 9, 2008 12:54:47 GMT -5
The correct plan was not going. Having gone, there wasn't much he could do to fix it. I should also mention that the man has no military command experience. The guy has no idea what he's doing... And neither do the people he likes to put in charge. you talk of obama rite? well he has no military experience or any true proposals he mite enact. he's a politician trying and too young to know ezactly whats hes doing. And yet? By the logic of age and military experience, you should have started supporting McCain from the get go. I find it possible for a person who lacks military experience to still be a good president. Keep in mind the president is a leader--meaning he/she has a good eye for spotting talent and experience in others and coordinating it all so that it works. The question is whether McCain or Obama is better at coordinating others' knowledge and specialties to benefit the US.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Aug 9, 2008 17:42:12 GMT -5
The correct plan was not going. Having gone, there wasn't much he could do to fix it. I should also mention that the man has no military command experience. The guy has no idea what he's doing... And neither do the people he likes to put in charge. personally i watned hillary to be president. you talk of obama rite? well he has no military experience or any true proposals he mite enact. he's a politician trying and too young to know ezactly whats hes doing. he has surrounded himself with people who are experienced in such matters its called a cabinet i don't if you know what that is but it is part of the government. also seeing as how are last president had a terrible time in military issues maybe it is a good idea to go in a different direction instead of "staying the course". and i think he does know what he is doing and it really pisses me off that there are hillary supporters who switch for McCain just because they are sore losers.
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o8jedi
Jet
Please, call me "o8"
Posts: 364
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Post by o8jedi on Aug 10, 2008 14:42:17 GMT -5
This ignoring the fact that Bush did change his plans for Iraq of course? Of course. He decided that we should stay longer. On a related note, there's an AP article stating titled: Iraq demands 'clear timeline' for US withdrawalBut there's bigger fish to fry so on we go. Actually, a flip-flop isn't a complete turnaround, it's a change in position. Umm, actually, it is. Usually when people flip-flop it's to make themselves more appealing to other voters. In our "us-and-them" political atmosphere, to change position is to support the other cause. In the UK, they call flip-flops "u-turns" for this very reason. Obama has turned around on the surge. He went from saying it's a disaster to praising its success in 5 months! The man's had 5 opinions in as many months! I do not want that man as president. Monday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Tuesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." Wednesday: "Today, I am announcing a new plan on how to deal with Iran." And so on and so forth. I contend that flip-flopping is not a sign of indecisiveness, which is really what you're saying about Obama: that he is incapable of making a decision. Let's use myself as an example. Almost from the word "go," I thought that the Surge would be ineffective, at best. It seemed to me to be yet another sign of the Bush administration committing more resources and lives to this quagmire. However, in lieu of recent information, I do have to concede that there are some positive benefits from the surge. I have little choice but to accept that the surge worked. In short, I flip-flopped. However, I still stand by my rationalization at the time and I still believe that the sooner we can get out of Iraq, the better. You see, the only way that progress can be made is if people are willing to weigh the options and the concequences, concede flaws and adapt to situations as they evolve. One only has to look at Sean Hannity at Fox News to see how having an unwavering stance will make you look like a giant jerk. Let's not forget that Barack Obama comes from a law background. As any good lawyer will tell you, as new evidence comes to light and as the arguments unfold, your case has to adapt to address these new points, and, at times, you may have to assert something completely different than what you stated before. I'd like to leave you with one of Aesop's fables that I think best addresses my take on this: An old oak tree had been standing tall by a riverbank for more than 100 years. One day, stormclouds rolled in. The tree looked at the clouds and smiled to itself. "This storm will be like the others," it thought, "I'll stand here proudly and weather it out." As the winds picked up, the tree stood tall and proud, not yielding an inch. However, the storm proved to be too strong and a strong gust of wind knocked the tree over. As it laid battered and broken by the riverbank after the storm had passed, the tree was amazed to see the reeds standing upright. "How on Earth did you manage to survive that storm?" it asked. The reeds replied, "Whenever the winds blow through, we yield, while you instead fight them with all your might." It is better to bend than to break.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 20, 2008 5:08:31 GMT -5
There needs to be deep fundamental changes in the direction this world is taking particularly in respect of fuel and America has to retake the lead. Whoever becomes the next president has to understand that. Nobody produces oil, we all just extract it and it cant be replaced. Ergo, its running out. America put a man on the moon within 12 years just to beat the Soviets. Its been 35 years since the Arab oil embargo. Ive been on this planet for most of that time and I can safetly say that oil has always been the chief factor in all US dealings in that region many other places around the world. 35 years of fire fighting the symptoms and doing nothing about the disease. I grew up wondering at the so called third world countries and how badly they managed their resources till there was none left and people starved. At families that produced more mouths than they could feed and care for. I used to think how much better and wiser America was by comparison. The more fool I. In those 35 years Europe and Asia have long since overtaken America in fuel saving and efficient technology. Before you rubbish me, look at the make of car your driving. I havent the first clue if Obama can deliver any of the big changes he keeps promising. The smart money is that he probably cant. Still, Id like to see him have his chance instead of someone else promising more of the same.
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Post by username on Aug 21, 2008 19:52:57 GMT -5
I find it funny how people think McCain has the best understanding of foreign affairs and such, simply because he markets himself as the one who understands it best.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Aug 21, 2008 20:07:04 GMT -5
I find it funny how people think McCain has the best understanding of foreign affairs and such, simply because he markets himself as the one who understands it best. That means the marketing is doing its job.
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