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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jun 18, 2008 23:54:45 GMT -5
take your pick say who you want to win and why
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 0:24:45 GMT -5
Ralph Nadar. jk; I support Obama honestly because out of the two, I think he'd be the better president. He might not have as much experience as everyone else, but he has a lot of leadership. He works hard for what he thinks it right and I'm kind of a sucker for the "grassroot efforts" although I am sick and tired of that phrase. And although I know this sounds cheesy, but we NEED change and McCain doesn't seem up to the challenge.
McCain is a LOT like Bush and we've already seen what that was like, so I don't want another four year repeat (and 100 years in Iraq. lol) ; I also think it was lame of him to secretly raise money with Bush by his side, then avoid associating with him when campaigning. not cool.
yikes, my thoughts don't sound very collected, but that's the gist of what I'm trying to say.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Jun 19, 2008 0:38:40 GMT -5
Ron Paul Not Kidding. Really hopen McCain dies within a week of the big game. Because Ron Paul is still in the game... he is still a nominie, spreading his message. Time to drag that link back up I suppose distanthorizons.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=ctb&action=display&thread=14900But between those two... Obama. McCain has the same speech writers and campaign managers that Bush did. Obama is the only one with the ability to create precedent between the two. However, his economic policy WILL create an inflation tax on the next generation. So will McCain... but in the form of an empirialistic war, and lives lost along with the inflation.
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Post by CountessRachel on Jun 19, 2008 0:45:32 GMT -5
Well....not that I'm a big believer in the fair play of our so-called "voting system," but if I had to pick, I'd say Obama. Obama has strong leadership skills and good self-presentation...a huge difference from Bush. Everyone for some odd reason thinks it's entirely the president's responsibility to wave a magic wand and fix everything wrong with this country--like he's supposed to be Jesus Christ or something. But the government should be (atleast I always assumed) a teamwork sort of thing. Obama, to me, would pick people less on the spoils system, and more on the qualifications system...something yet again opposite of Bush. Plus, from what I understand, McCain's general position on the economy is that "it will ultimately correct itself." ...Which was EXACTLY what Hoover said in 1928....so yeah...
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 12:30:00 GMT -5
to quote zenjamin's Ron Paul thread... Recently he released Info on how much money he raised. Over 20million dollars, almost all of it from the citizens. Unlike candidates like Clinton, who get all of their money from corporations. Obama's fundraising is all from citizens too, but i'm pretty sure it's a LOT more...no offence. :] but like someone else who responded to that thread (who I am too lazy to quote), 20 mil. isn't that much, compared to McCain according to the automatic Obama e-mails I get when I joined Students for Obama: but it's always important to remember HOW they get it: What I think is also really cool is the way Obama has gotten so many more people involved in politics. I mean, my sister missed a baby shower here to go be an intern for Obama's campaign in Ohio or something. @_@ And most of his campaign is dependent on 1.5 million individual donors, and 30,577 of them are first time. Most of them average around $100 too, which is quite impressive in my book. My aunt is speculating that McCain's help won't be even last the first year, much less the whole term, so she said that if he chooses a good VP, it might not be so bad.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Jun 19, 2008 12:46:10 GMT -5
Obama's fundraising is all from citizens too, but i'm pretty sure it's a LOT more...no offence. :] but like someone else who responded to that thread (who I am too lazy to quote), 20 mil. isn't that much, compared to McCain according to the automatic Obama e-mails I get when I joined Students for Obama: Not true at all. Obama has more grass-root support then usuial it is true... but he still takes money from sketchy organizations. He recently signed a bill that would stop corporations giving so much money... but you dont have to look verry far into the bill to see all the loopholes that allows the corporations to give even more money through the back door. also, remember, what I posted there was a Looong time agao. and before RP's best selling book was released. (verry good BTW) But the main reason Im not too crazy about Obama is WHY people support him so much... that is to say, they support him for the same reason anyone supports a main candidate. Not because of his policies, but because they like the guy. Someone who knows how to talk, was seen as the underdog, and whose race backs up his message of change. Though if you look purely at Policies, taking us back to the constitution is the only true, precedent setting message of "change". When voting for a president, ask yourself, "what effects will this guy have on history 100 years from now?"
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Jun 19, 2008 13:10:29 GMT -5
McCain.
1. When he said, we'll be in Iraq for 100 years, he meant, I believe, and I forget the source/unabridged quote, but anyway, he meant in the way we're still in Germany. And, on a related note, Ben Franklin is said to have said that America will fight for "A hundred years to gain her freedom.
2. If McCain is due to be the next Bush, Obama is due to be the next Carter.
3. His policies on Osama Bin Laden. Now, everyone with half a brain wants ol' Osama brought to justice, but Obama has said only a year ago that he may nuke Pakistan. Our ally, Pakistan. To kill Mr. Bin Laden. Now, he wants Bin Laden, a non-U.S.-citzen to brought to trial, while we're at war, in not even a military tribunal a la Nuremburg but in the civilian courts of NY which has indicted him. Now, can you imagine what a circus that would be? For one, it would be d@mn-near impossible to find an impartial judge or jury for Osama in NYC. Need I elaborate why? Really? Need I? And, we'd have to drag the soldiers who captured him in. And, should he be found innocent on a mistrial, we are just scr3wed on so many levels. He can now...
brace yourselves, ladies and gents...
Roam free, unable to be brought back
Sue the NYC district courts for damages
And, though I'm not sure about this, charge soldiers and others with conspircy, attempted murder, among other things.
And, by extension, that can happen to any terrorist.
Also, it's possible that this can be extended to illegal immigrants. I believe also, though I may be misinformed, gives them citizenship. that may just be a problem. Maybe.
4. He opposes drilling in...Anwar, offshore drilling, and even onshore drilling. All of which can knock down gas prices.
5. He opposes the repeal of the gas tax. Personally, I fell it should be scrapped New York state has 8 separate taxes on gas, bringing the price up almost $1.30. That, added to the federal tax, doesn't sound too good, eh?
McCain '08
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 13:16:59 GMT -5
But the main reason Im not too crazy about Obama is WHY people support him so much... that is to say, they support him for the same reason anyone supports a main candidate. Not because of his policies, but because they like the guy. Someone who knows how to talk, was seen as the underdog, and whose race backs up his message of change. Though if you look purely at Policies, taking us back to the constitution is the only true, precedent setting message of "change". When voting for a president, ask yourself, "what effects will this guy have on history 100 years from now?" Yeah, that's basically the biggest reason why I'm upset about people who automatically say they're supporting Obama when they don't actually know anything, but I guess I can't talk, because my teacher called me out because he said that i "supported him blindly" or something, but is so wrong to come to the conclusion that he is the best candidate and support him? (RP doesn't exactly have a chance, much like Nadar, but man if he pulled through, that would definitely be in the textbooks) A lot of people seem to think his big decision factor is his race also, and that annoys the shiz out of me too. They don't bother to really see his platform, just determine whether or not they support him because they have/lack preference towards blacks. When I looked at the candidates, I stripped down their race, their gender, and just looked at what they stand for. Obama's direct lineage is from Africa, he's only half AND he was raised here and Indonesia too so it's kinda weird when I think about it. 5. He opposes the repeal of the gas tax. Personally, I fell it should be scrapped New York state has 8 separate taxes on gas, bringing the price up almost $1.30. That, added to the federal tax, doesn't sound too good, eh? just for clarification, A reason why you support McCain is because he supports (or opposes the removal of, w/e) a gas tax you think it should be scrapped? lol I'm confused.
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Post by 2X the All-Powerful! on Jun 19, 2008 14:23:03 GMT -5
I think he was talking about Obama.
And yeah, it was the same thing that annoyed me, people were gonna vote for Clinton cuz they just wanted a female president and people want to vote for Obama cuz he's not white. They don't care about the main issues.
I have no problems against Obama, but how does lack of experience prove leadership quality? I'd rather go for experience than charisma, which I think McCain has. Also I don't support Obama's tax policies, as told to me by Lil Cheney.
Although if I had my way I'd have Ron Paul. But McCain will have to do. People want change cuz they think we're at our worse so any change would be better. Not necessarily...
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Jun 19, 2008 14:48:32 GMT -5
this podcast episode is verry good one about the "main issues". Just FF about 10 minutes in... he talks about the main questions that people should be asking about Obama. (Hilary too, but its an old episode.) PS: I honestly think Ron Paul is the only one who could answer all of these questions. Even when less dignified questions were asked of him, the steered the discussion towards more... meaningful topics.
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 15:08:22 GMT -5
I have no problems against Obama, but how does lack of experience prove leadership quality? Yikes; I meant that his leadership makes more for his "lack" of experience. I haven't really seen evidence of McCain being a leader, but I'm probably not looking very hard. I dunno, I still support Obama, but the more I look into McCain, he doesn't look AS bad as I use to see him. I hold immense respect for him and what he's gone through in Vietnam for sure...
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o8jedi
Jet
Please, call me "o8"
Posts: 364
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Post by o8jedi on Jun 19, 2008 15:11:52 GMT -5
I'm an adamant supporter of Barack Obama. The reason being that he represents my sociopolitical views the best. I think that negotiation with Iran and North Korea should never be out of the question. I think that Iraq was a mistake from the start and the sooner we get out, the better. I think that the most practical way to break free from foreign oil is to convert to an alternative energy source. There are many others that I agree with, but I won't bore you with. McCain represents only a few, if any, of my views and, although I respect him, I won't vote for him.
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 15:18:15 GMT -5
hmm. another thing about Obama is that although he never agreed with the War in Iraq, since the start, he's always said that we can't just take out our soldiers and leave everything in ruins, but that we have to slowly work them out; people dreaming of just withdrawing them right away aren't thinking of how Iraqis and others would be affected by that.
I read somewhere in like Newsweek or Time that McCain has missed more Senatorial meetings..? then another senator who had a stroke back in like november or something. That kind of irked me. You could argue that he was busy campaigning and didn't have time, but Obama and Clinton were Senators too... -___________-
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Post by concreteangel on Jun 19, 2008 18:09:34 GMT -5
McCain.
I don't know too much about politics, but I do know where I stand on one issue: abortion. I'm very against it, and all the Obama is for it. McCain isn't.
McCain's experience as a prisoner of war will also make him a better president because he knows exactly what the soldiers are doing over there and what they're risking.
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Jun 19, 2008 19:24:47 GMT -5
eh, I wouldn't compare Vietnam to Iraq because the situation isn't the same, so to some extent, McCain DOESN'T know what they're going through, although he probably went through a lot worse...
I don't like basing my decision on one deciding factor; there are pros and cons to each candidate and I think McCain's cons outweigh is pros. Back in 2000, when I use to talk about how I thought Al Gore should be president (but then again, I was like...6, so what did i know) many people at my church supported Bush just because he was pro-life and against gay marriage; fast forward a few years and they can't stop complaining about him.
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