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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 14, 2008 13:40:43 GMT -5
^Haha, ok maybe not all of them but there are the few. You know, this is well suited for the CT.
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Post by Tungsten on Jun 14, 2008 13:41:47 GMT -5
Movin to CT
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Post by CountessRachel on Jun 15, 2008 14:25:45 GMT -5
Funny thing tho, you have so many rising countries out there trying to "be like Americans" in some ways. Most countries now make English a mandatory part of the educational curriculum (though other countries speak English as well); people are adapting American style clothes, watching American movies, and listening to American music or mimicking American genres of music; there's an increase in American restaurants and stores in other countries. I hear of people visiting some foreign countries and thinking, "geez this looks almost like back home."
And see, while China is indeed a rising economic entity, it's economy is still very flawed in that 1) it's still communist in many ways, and 2) there's a bigger gap between rich and poor there than there is in the states. Not to mention America is China's biggest buyer. If our economy collapses then they're in deep trouble.
Fall of America? I wouldn't go so far as to call it the end just yet. We have one of the most stable government systems (as compared to many African, Southeast Asian, and South American countries). Our economy's in a recession--as economies are prone to do from time to time. But it's not like half of America's out on the streets selling apples for a nickel and hopping trains....yet... >.>
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Post by Tungsten on Jun 15, 2008 15:07:29 GMT -5
I agree with the Countess. The way I see it, it's not the Fall of America per say but rather the fall of America being the dominant super power. The American dollar has lowered in value (for Pete sakes Cananda is beating us now) and with gas prices increasing the cost of everything is going up. Other countries are rising to power and as a result sharing the spot light.
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Post by jakeman3025 on Jun 18, 2008 22:45:44 GMT -5
America is going into a depression probley because of are debt and the atrocious gas prices the majority of are congress and senate is paid by the big corporations both republicans and demarcates and were to dumb to no the difference
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Post by CountessRachel on Jun 19, 2008 0:37:46 GMT -5
Gas prices not so much. People are gonna cut back on vacations and plasma screen tvs before going into debt because they pay $20 to $30 more at the pump...
If anything, it's the failing housing market that we need to worry about.
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Post by Milkman on Jun 24, 2008 10:27:25 GMT -5
Funny topic. I don't see the US falling in a way like the Roman empire or the Brittisch Empire.
Ofcourse will the US lose their position of the only economic, political and militairy superpower on earth and have far less policical influence in the world.
China will become a superpower in the near furture. China is making big steps foreward on economic and technological grounds. They are also modernizing their military upto modern western standards.
Also russia will have great influence on the world politics because of their large gas and oil reserves. Russia has already tested their oil weapon against minor countries like ukraine to get what they wanted.
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 24, 2008 21:11:47 GMT -5
There are rumors that Bush will try and cancel the 2008 election.
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o8jedi
Jet
Please, call me "o8"
Posts: 364
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Post by o8jedi on Jun 24, 2008 21:53:27 GMT -5
Bush, no. Cheney, perhaps. Seriously, though, they won't unless they want a full scale civil war on their hands. One in which they're outnumbered by over 3 to 1, I might add.
To stay on topic, as I'm sure I've said before, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and how we'll give up our spot as the hegemon.
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Post by chaobender482 on Jun 25, 2008 16:32:26 GMT -5
^The national debt is actually 9 Trillion. Last I herd, it was at 12.7 Trillion, and to tell you the truth, where the stocks are going at, we are looking at a full blown Recession, and once we see stocks go below 10,000, Depression could be looming, and before you know that, the Middle East has Successfully Won the war against the US(Mainly Republicans like Bush(no offense)), just by destroying the economy, and that is all there is too it.
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Post by Alyson on Jun 25, 2008 19:03:11 GMT -5
spam removed
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Post by Princess Azula on Jul 23, 2008 22:05:26 GMT -5
^The national debt is actually 9 Trillion. Last I herd, it was at 12.7 Trillion, and to tell you the truth, where the stocks are going at, we are looking at a full blown Recession, and once we see stocks go below 10,000, Depression could be looming, and before you know that, the Middle East has Successfully Won the war against the US(Mainly Republicans like Bush(no offense)), just by destroying the economy, and that is all there is too it. I'm sorry, what? The national debt is 9.5 trillion dollars, and a little less than half of that is interagency debt. That is to say, around 4 trillion dollars is money that one government agency borrowed from another; it's money the government owes itself. This sort of debt does not have any sort of interest attached to it. The rest of the debt is the public debt, about half of which is foreign debt (the sort of debt we should worry about). These usually consist of foreign securities--and it's worth pointing out that this is not bad in itself, as every nation requires foreign investment to thrive, but an excess of foreign capital means that there is an ever present drain on our finances because we owe more and more to the rest of the world. But even this is deceptive, because it also forces other nations to tie their fate with ours--2.5 trillion dollars worth of foreign debt means that other nations have a vested interest in our economy, as a disaster would mean that we would have to default on the debt. Further, the United States is not anywhere near a depression. It is not even at a state of recession, as the economy is still growing... slowly. What we're experiencing is a general stagflation, with recession-like symptoms in several key sectors; credit and housing among them. Given the importance of these industries (along with energy), these symptoms cause a lot of problems for everyone but a sufficient portion of the economy is still picking up enough slack to keep us in positive growth. The main concern is not a collapse of the stock market or even a general slowdown in the economy, but rather, a collapse in the credit market. That could be catestrophic, which is why the government should take every effort possible to stave this off. This must be extended to a sound monetary policy, but the problem is that an increase in interest rates at this point will only worsen the problems--yet that's what we need to stabilize the dollar. A thin line must be trodden. It seems that Europe is headed for a major recession in the near future, and they are less equipped to deal with major economic problems. That should hopefully end the gross overvaluation of the Euro vs. the dollar, and theoretically pull the US (as well as Europe) out of the brink once a more stable currency flow is achieved. It's also quite a specious claim to blame the president about this, since the problems have occured under Democratic stewardship of Congress. The president may rightly be blamed for many things, but not this.
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Post by donuts22 on Jul 24, 2008 4:11:22 GMT -5
1800s = the brittish century 1900s = the american century 2000s = the asian century (at least that is what it looks like so far)
Places like China, India and the Middle East are moving up in the world (and Japan has been making big money out of electronics for a while now). With petrol prices rising this means that people will have to think more about what they buy instead of buying useless (and expensive) products that they don't need (ie. iPods, big screen televisions, etc). In this way Americans (and other western nations) will have to step back from the easy, materialistic lifestyles that they have grown accustomed to.
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Post by Princess Azula on Jul 24, 2008 4:41:16 GMT -5
Not so, I'm afraid.
I'm not quite sure you're familiar with economics or sustainability studies, but there is zero likelihood that either China or India will ever truly surpass the United States in the foreseeable future. There is more to becoming a superpower than making money through cheap exports.
You must recall that a large fraction of the rising wealth in India and China is due to their trade with the US and other first world nations. They are absolutely dependant on those nations for their economic growth, and if--as you allege--the West draws back from its "materialistic lifestyles," then there won't be so many markets for those products, would there?
Further, any visitor to either country would notice the staggering gulf in wealth between those who manage those Eastern economies and the rest of the nation. We're talking about countries who cannot even supply clean water to all their citizens, much less any other service. In each nation, a billion people are living in grinding poverty while perhaps a few million people enjoy the fruits of modern technology. That sort of thing is not sustainable, and those nations cannot grow on the back of their nigh-enslaved peasantry. And even were that not the case, no nation that can't even supply drinking water has any business calling itself a superpower. It's disgraceful and loathesome on their part.
It is very much in vogue to condemn the West for materialism and a thousand other sins, but such accusations are as factually wrong as they are ill-conceived. What, I ask, drives an economy if not for the creation of goods and services? That Americans and Europeans even possess a disposable income speaks highly for their economic prowess and the care for their citizens; no one buys a plasma TV if they don't have food on the table.
As for the Middle East, they're even worse off. I recommend that everyone ought to embark on a voyage over there sometime and avail themselves of your local embassy to get some good information on what the living situation is really like in those places. It's quite the enlightening experience and can be enjoyable after a fashion.
So, no, it's really not as you've said.. It's quite alright, though, since this belief seems to have permeated far and wide among westerners. It's a species of guilt-tripping, I should think, and while cries of conservation (both of the environment and of finances) are certainly laudable, it's not acceptable when such guilt replaces reason. O tempora, O mores indeed.
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Post by Milkman on Jul 25, 2008 11:50:23 GMT -5
Personaly i think the asain countries are currently through a process of industrialisation wich is in some way similar to the industrial revolution in europe of the 1850's. in that time, most of the wealth was in hand of a small part of the population. During that time around the start of 20th century the underclass of poor factory workers started to revolt against the social unequelity. Under pressure of social uproar and upcomming communism manay european countries passed social laws that bettered the social position of the poor and distributed the wealth more equally amongst the population. It's not unthinkeble that such events might occure in india and China.
It is a good thing that the political power and American dominance of the world is decreasing. The US has tried to put the world to his hands with mostly desasterous concuquenses for long enough.
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