Chevalier Vi Liberté
Ty Lee
True Shinigami
La lutte d'un v?ritable chevalier n'est jamais fini ...
Posts: 4,299
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Post by Chevalier Vi Liberté on May 22, 2008 1:42:06 GMT -5
Several weeks ago, a ground-breaking study on religious belief and social well-being was published in the Journal of Religion & Society. Comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand, author Gregory S. Paul quietly demolished the myth that faith strengthens society. humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7I am not going to state my views on this article for now.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on May 22, 2008 7:27:50 GMT -5
as interesting as that was, there was a huge disparity between the data he provided, and the conclusions he drew. Yes,our crime rate and moral decay is a problem, and a quantifiable one.
However, he did not make the connection to religion other then to say "see, crime rate high, belief high... it MUST be a positive correlation!"
Which is BS... There are many things that are causing the moral decline in america. and willingness to believe in a higher power is low on that list (imo)
And high on that list, is the consumer culture, that dilutes and feeds on the spirituality and tradition of america, till all we have left, is faith.
I am a verry spiritual person. But I believe faith to be morally wrong. Faith makes you a tool to be used, anyone can claim to speak for god. And as soon as you belive you know God, you stop looking.
Something else that article failed to mention, is how verry spiritual and traditionally oriented the Japanese and Norwegians are. Each knows the myths of their culture, each knows the norse gods and the shinto stories. But they do not believe it to the point that they are willing to replace certain aspects of their lyfstyle with religion. they only have a personal and spiritual connection to their beliefs.
Religion/spirituality and tradition/culture are two sides of the same coin. They should never directly meet, But both balance and affect eachother. But, when you throw in a consumer culture that tries to infest every aspect of your live, and replace spirituality. When a whole generation of people buy things to feel better and feel morally justified... that throws the whole system out of wack.
So... Spirituality and tradition can not co-exist with the virus, that is the always changing consumer culture. However, Faith can co-exist with the consumer culture, because it better allows people to accept their current lyfstyle, the status quo. This has been greatly exploited by the Neo-conservatives, Whose only goal is to get people to accept power, without questioning its morality as anything but good.
It is human nature to seek your true purpose or place in life. American society discourages this.
PS: watch "Fight Club" If you have not already.
"That was not just a bunch of stuff that got destroyed, it was ME! "
"If God was a model for our fathers, and our fathers failed, What does that say about God?"
"You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."
"If you could be either God's worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose? We are the middle children of history, we have no special purpose or place, and unless we get God's attention, we have no hope of damnation or redemption. Which is worse, hell or nothing? Burn the museums, wipe your as$ with the Mona Lisa. This way, at least God will know your name. "
"God dang it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables and computing in cubicles; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes. Working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression, is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie stars, and rock gods. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very ticked off. "
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Post by pennyxdreadful on May 22, 2008 9:05:46 GMT -5
Never mind that the Japanese also prohibit the owning of firearms. The only factor at work here must be atheism, and you couldn't possibly believe in a higher power and still buy the concept of evolution. Yes, I find the article a bit silly. I'm not in the mood to go off on a long rant just yet, but it does frustrate me when athiesm is considered a mark of intelligence these days. That said, most athiests aren't even atheistic at all. I would hazard to guess that the majority of them are simply agnostic.
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Post by CountessRachel on May 22, 2008 9:33:28 GMT -5
Japan has low (reported) crime not because their atheistic but because, as mentioned earlier, the government doesn't allow firearms and there's more social connection between the citizens. In Japan, most everyone has that "greater good" mentality that you honestly won't find in the states.
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Post by username on May 22, 2008 12:43:17 GMT -5
Crime and religion are unrelated. The heavy emphasis on faith in today's America only caused our anti-intellectualism, not out unethical behavior.
As other people pointed out, with Japan it's just a cultural difference. The greater good mentality, etc. We're the "OMNOMNOM HAMBURGERS! READING IS FOR QUEERS" country. Very different countries, and the difference in religious emphasis is somewhat coincidental.
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Post by 2X the All-Powerful! on May 22, 2008 18:37:06 GMT -5
^exactly. Yeah, the Japanese may be unreligious. They're also a hell lot smarter in what they do than we are, in their law enforcement, education, social structure. It doesn't exactly make sense that just having a lack of interest in religion makes a person think he shouldn't do a crime. Does this mean that Catholics are more likely to rob a gas station?
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uverworldluv
Casual Zuko
That's what you get when you let your heart win. ♥
Posts: 914
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Post by uverworldluv on May 22, 2008 20:42:00 GMT -5
Believing in God is not the reason for high crime rates. I'm a Christian, and does that make me want to hold up my local Wal-Mart? No, it doesn't. The fact that someone would try to blame other people's dumb mistakes on God infuriates me.
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on May 23, 2008 15:26:39 GMT -5
I'll use this story to sum it all up.
Friend 1: Why are you standing on your head? Friend 2: To keep the Tigers away. Friend 1: That's silly, there's no tigers around here. Friend 2: Exactly!.
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Post by beautyfr.pain on May 23, 2008 16:36:52 GMT -5
This reminds me of a book I recently read. It was a children's book, but it had a sharp concept of what the future could be. Somewhere along the way, the government decides that running a country should be like running a business, not on "petty", argumentative and unstable things like faith and religion. (And human rights sort of go out the door...)
and what about religions that DON'T have deities?
This article seem to only mention Christianity as it's main "religion" too. What about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc?
Another thing that sets me off is that the number of religious people is counted by how many people "claim" to believe in a deity.
I mean, there are "Christians" who isolate themselves and take any opportunity to condemn you to hell until you believe and there are Christians who emulate Christ, who sit with the outcast, love their neighbor and enemy, and genuinely care about what you believe in, even if it's not what they do. There are people who believe and there are "false claimers". lol
I've always been taught to question what I'm taught, whether it be by a biased history teacher, or a zealous preacher. I guess more conservative people are scared that encouraging people to think for themselves can result in them deviating from their religion, but if your faith is true, it won't happen, so many what I'm taught is different. hmm.
OK...so these "faith-driven" programs emphasize abstinence (the only way that you can prevent pregnancy for sure) leading to teen pregnancies, while programs encouraging contraceptives, give teenagers a sense of choice and help them "make decisions that benefit society as a whole"?! Is this decision to use contraceptives and risk getting pregnant, or in turn DECIDING TO STAY ABSTINENT ANYWAY.
There are many factors for Japan being better off then other countries besides lack of religion. Is it their better "sex education" in the use of contraceptives? Or is it their better work ethic and a "for-the-greater-good" mentality? Education is a huuuuuge priority in Asia in general too.
extensive education+good worth ethic=well-oiled country.
Japan's not very religious, but they're still spiritual to an extent. They're pretty big on syncretism too. ["Syncretism consists of the attempt to reconcile disparate or contradictory beliefs, often while melding practices of various schools of thought."] Their willingness to compromise is probably another factor.
And everyone knows the reason that Japan doesn't have a high rate of teenage pregnancy is because Asians are social awkward. >D
oh dear, this is a lot longer then intended...
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on May 23, 2008 17:31:08 GMT -5
Well, I'll start by addressing the title of that piece of nonsense. God would be an atheist? That doesn't even make sense, let alone be witty or insightful, or even half-decent. Further, I think it ridiculous that, despite the wildly different cultures, difference in firearm owning, education, mentality, work ethic, sex ed and other things this guy can pin it down to religion. I mean seriously. Now, you can argue that religion affects sex ed, but I also doubt that the teaching about contraceptives really means that kids will have everything work right? I mean how many people pay any attention whatsoever during sex ed? Anyone? Anyone at all? Okay, 12 people. Not many. Now if contraceptives were brought into the picture how many would snap to attention? 3. So 15 would care. And, in case you haven't noticed, the internet is full to the brim with information on everything. I'll bet that includes contraceptives. A pet peeve of mine is when people talk about how bad America is, but that's a different rant. Also, I think the firearms may also be rooted in the people's cultural values, rooted in peace and compromise and general niceness as opposed to our live easy love free, who cares mentality, which probably pushes the rejected down, and can cause the people with a few screws loose to go on a rampage. That is all. Oh, and beautyfrpain, do you question the teaching to question teachings?
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Post by username on May 23, 2008 19:08:24 GMT -5
We can blame the stupidity of America on religion though. Anti-intellectualism, homo/xenophobia, etc, all most concentrated in the most religious parts of the country.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on May 23, 2008 19:15:06 GMT -5
It seemed people didnt really get my post.
The Neo-conservatives use religion and the consumer culture as weapons to maintain the status quo. The consumer culture has spread to most all areas of the country, its the the infectious weapon. However, Religion is a visable one that has already been connected with the neo-cons. so that one is isolated, because it is so visable. and made the easy scape-goat by would-be intellectuals who cant be bothered to dig deep, because they think they already know the answer.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on May 23, 2008 23:13:08 GMT -5
I think this is just silly. Maybe crime rate is low in Japan because it is illegal for regular citizens to carry firearms, not because 90% of the people don't think a deity exists? Correlation does not imply causation.
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Post by pennyxdreadful on May 24, 2008 0:51:13 GMT -5
We can blame the stupidity of America on religion though. Anti-intellectualism, homo/xenophobia, etc, all most concentrated in the most religious parts of the country. We can blame stupidity on human nature. Most religions and spirituality do not teach or even encourage much of what has been inteperated as gospel. All of that stems from fear that's been passed down through the generations. I might expand on my thoughts here after I've gotten some sleep. Waaay too sleepy to properly wax laconic right now.
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Post by wiiboy on May 24, 2008 2:26:35 GMT -5
Wow, I could have figured this seeing how Atheists are the ones that seems to advance though technology just like that. If Japan was Christian, well they will surely be behind on the times and wouldn't be as advanced as they are now. I guess Atheism and Shinto are the two main religions, not that Atheism is a religion or anything. England I would have already told you seeing how some of the famous Atheist seem to to come from there, Richard Dawkins? However they are mostly 50/50 on religion and most Christian there deny creation and accept Evolution however they do believe in God. Which is blasphemy by the way.
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