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Post by taiyo *on limited hiatus* on Apr 28, 2008 14:45:33 GMT -5
No the answer they replied for Katara/Aang was: "You'll just have to wait and see..." noblebender: Also, you missed out the part in that commentary where one of the creators says he ships Kataang! That's pretty important... I can never tell who is who in the creators but one of them definitely says that he is on the Kataang side. Ah, then that's my bad. Oh well. Worse case scenario (besides death) I've seen for a ship not to happen is boy dies and then reincarnates into the son of the very woman he had unrequited feelings for. >___<
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 28, 2008 16:44:00 GMT -5
Where's the love for action and blood and guts eh? I must karma you for this. You make me remember that I shouldn't take shipping too seriously, because action (and blood and guts) rule all. I mean, how many kiddie cartoons pay so much attention to fight styles anyways? I actually gave up on A:TLA for a long time because I got too sick and tired of the shipping wars, and here I am messing with the Relationships threads. So smart I am.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 16:54:31 GMT -5
they seem TOO obvious and become a bit boring, such as Kataang and Maiko...but i guess this is a show for little kids after all... I did a little servey awhile back, and kataangers are older by an average of 1.5 years. (at elast on the DH.) seriously though, the idea that kataangers are yonger or less mature is a verry big myth. I know im at least no kid. I know at least fo me, the older I get, the more I appreiciated the simple relationships where love is able to flourish. like the CEO of mac says. "it just, works" I really think some people needlessly complicate romance. I think it is funny that any of us presume to declare that we know what pairing will win in the end; not to mention arrogant. Im sorry, but we are only discussing what we think the ship M&B has favored and hinted at is. If is said I liked apples and orange supporters should really look out for kiwi, but orange people are fun because of how crazy they are. and Textbender told you, "I think Zenjamin likes apples. I havent heard him hint that he personally supports oranges, but he will support others who do." if you told textbender he was being presumptious, you would be the arrogant one IMO.... ya... that came out odd. In the ToonZone interview, they almost appeared pro-Kataang, but here they seemed to want to defend Zutara...what do you all think about that commentary? And forgive me if this has already been brought up. It is important to note that the creators have NEVER talked about zutara outside of the context of the fandom. unless you cound "but, theyre not susposed to BE together." *laughs* also, as someone mentioned before me, when you listen to the commentary, its clear that either MorB verbally agrees with Ben when he says, "im all about the kataang". PS: zergneedsfood, we all love action, blood and guts. thats why it gets not as much attention. you cant really have an in depth arguement between pro blood and guts people and pro peace people. peace would be boring in avatar. ;D
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 28, 2008 17:22:14 GMT -5
@ Zen: I never thought of it that way, that the older you get the more you enjoy simple relationships. Maybe I'm not old enough, or it's just that I'm not interested in one.
I guess that since I'm a writer I tend to look for the little details, which is why I like the complicated (and possibly not possible) relationshp that is Zutara.
I haven't watched the interviews but now I don't feel I need to; from what I gather it's pretty clear B&M are all for Kataang. I'm old enough to be realistic about the chances of a fan-supported event taking place in canon, although the writers, artists, publishers, and owners of the Transformers franchise actually adopted several concepts first created by the fans - i.e. gestalt teams as a description for the combiners.
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Post by noblebender on Apr 28, 2008 21:05:31 GMT -5
Sure, it's true Mike and Bryan may have intended Kataang to be the main romance, but you never know. Toph was also supposed to be a man. XD
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Carl Bard
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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 23:51:17 GMT -5
Sure, it's true Mike and Bryan may have intended Kataang to be the main romance, but you never know. Toph was also supposed to be a man. XD "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Carl Bard But the question you have failed to ask is why would they change it after the show has already started and have been laying the groundwork for Katara and Aang?
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 29, 2008 4:17:29 GMT -5
Since B&M are very partial to Kataang, I doubt they would change things, psylum, but if they were much more objective with regards to relationships I wouldn't be surprised if their groundworks shifted direction. Writing a story is an organic process, and sometimes the objectives you laid out when you begin kind of just shuffle into the background as you progress. Sometimes it's unfortunate especially when you become particularly attached to a partiuclar objective but sometimes you have to be willing to give it up if you want the end result to be a good story.
But checking out all those interviews and such, I'd say they never gave up on Kataang as an objective. It's just the clamour of their numerous fans that might've distracted them for a bit.
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Post by grecia on Apr 29, 2008 9:29:03 GMT -5
Mike and Bryan always care about the fans, and many people staff always considered the interests of all ...
I think that Mike and Bryan have been very diplomatic with the Zutara fandom , the strategy of the trailer was right for the public and for attracting commercial ...
And all that apparent to Mike and Bryan seek to please everyone, at least it appears in the episode 316, with a Zutara friendship, but I think also I am wrong.
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Post by textbender on Apr 29, 2008 17:27:38 GMT -5
Thanks noblebender and Analesia for posting the discussion between B&M and the links about Maiko. I had seen references to the discussion, but not the whole thing and its context, noblebender, and I was actually curious to see it all. Thanks again. Analesia, I really appreciate all the links. I am having a hard time opening the last one, the one to the private conversation at the convention. I had seen it earlier, and I thought they were talking about the trailer kiss. Now I want to look at the whole thread to see what I missed, but I can't open it any more.
I watched again the Kataang moments people mentioned, the dance, the real kiss from Invastion 1 that is discussed in that post by noblebender, and more and more it looks like Kataang will happen. And I think B & M are half serious when they say they don't know if Katara liked that kiss. They are both telling the truth and giving hope to the Zutarans. But the two are not necessarily connected. The truth I think is that Katara is not yet sure about her feelings. She has not yet learned to see Aang as a potential love interest. When I look more closely at her drawing, she looks much younger than at first I thought, much closer to Aang than to Zuko. And I think the question is at what point will she see Aang as mature enough to stimulate a romantic interest on her part. It already began to happen in Invasion 1. She still talks down to him a little, "I'm so proud of you," but then she kind of plays with her hair when he says "everything will change now" and after they kiss and he flies off, she looks at him and you can see she remembers the kiss, blushes again, and then gets back to work. So it looks like what is interesting for the writers is how Katara's feelings develop from seeing Aang as just a kid to considering him as a potential romantic partner.
Although I think Kataang works because this is a show for kids, I don't think the ideas associated with Kataang are immature. It is actually very interesting to see Katara and Zuko be placed in the situation of developing a romantic interest for each other, but at a point in time when it is no longer possible, because by now they have both grown up and had enough experience and previous attachments to look before they leap. They will probably take each other in and really see what they are like as people before developing any feelings. Katara has learned from Jet to be more cautious. And Zuko has Mai on his mind. He didn't leave her because he didn't love her (I am intrigued by how different his and Aang's choices are when it comes to love versus saving the world, although their situations are very different, and perhaps it is not fair to compare them).
Deana, the accusation (I don't know if it was directed at me) of being presumptuous AND arrogant is very heavy handed and rather too easily hurled. I don't think feeling certain anything will happen is the equivalent of any of that, which for me is more appropriately used to describe a particular type of truly offensive behavior. I think it is possible to be both certain and correct at this point in the series about some of what will happen. We are a few short episodes away from the conclusion, and this series is not a non sequitur creation.
The Yue example actually fits with the first love theme of this series: Sokka's first love was not Yue, but Sukki. At least he met her and they shared a kiss first. I don't know if you are arguing for the virtue of being unsure about all outcomes until they are given to us, but I think there is something to be said for being able to tell ahead of time, and being sure of it (at least 99%). It think it is possible, especially in light of the interviews. For me personally, Kataang is a case of eating such a huge slice of humble pie that I have a very hard time feeling the object of that accusation. I will have no problems with being proved wrong once more, but it was such hard work to get here, going against my natural inclination, that the certainty I feel gives me no self-satisfaction with my own powers of deduction.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Apr 29, 2008 18:10:22 GMT -5
I didn't post any statments that support Zutara because I haven't seen any. Seriously, Bryan’s last statement on Zutara is "But whatever... people see want they to see." But his statement directly before that is: "Woah! You guys are jumping ahead!" Like Deana said, jumping ahead to what? That "People see what they want to see" is being taken out of context. If that was all they said on the subject of Zutara, I'd let it go. But they said people who saw Zutara in early episodes were jumping ahead. Seriously, how could they say something like that if there wasn't going to be some sort of Zutara? That's right, they couldn't, because you can't jump ahead to something that doesn't exist.
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Post by psylum on Apr 29, 2008 18:23:31 GMT -5
People here jumping ahead and seeing romantic potential before it was introduced.
The very next episode, Jet, featured Katara crushing on Jet. Or five episodes after WBS was The FortuneTeller.
In other words people were jumping ahead and seeing stuff that wasn't there.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Apr 29, 2008 18:40:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but my opinion differs from yours. They were talking about Zutara there, not every potential Katara/someone romance in the series. So... Jet? Yeah, I saw nothing that showed they were referring to them in any way.
Even if you jump ahead and see stuff that wasn't meant to be seen as romantic, you still have to jump ahead to something!
Ugh, this arguement is so pointless. It's all confirmation bias and different interpretations of the same words.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Apr 29, 2008 19:54:00 GMT -5
Seriously, how could they say something like that if there wasn't going to be some sort of Zutara? That's right, they couldn't, because you can't jump ahead to something that doesn't exist. Sure you can. For an example, let’s say I watched "The Blind Bandit" with someone for the first time and then they thought Toph/Aang was really going to happen. I could think "Woah, you’re jumping ahead" because they used little moments and made an entire relationship out of it. The same thing is true for Zutarains. Zuko and Katara had interaction in and people immediately jumped ahead to the idea that they’ll get together. Ugh, this arguement is so pointless. It's all confirmation bias and different interpretations of the same words. If you think this argument is pointless, I don’t see why you’re arguing it. I mean, nobody is jumping down your throat or anything. No need to take it so personal.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Apr 29, 2008 19:58:16 GMT -5
Ugh, this arguement is so pointless. It's all confirmation bias and different interpretations of the same words. If you think this argument is pointless, I don’t see why you’re arguing it. I mean, nobody is jumping down your throat or anything. No need to take it so personal. Me neither. I have no idea why I'm here arguing about this. I hate arguing. But I also feel the need to represent my views. If the people who share my views and I weren't here to argue, the entire RB would be all the other shippers patting each other on the back. And I hate that more. ...I wasn't aware that I was taking everything personally, but yeah. Okay. If you say so.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Apr 29, 2008 20:23:58 GMT -5
...I wasn't aware that I was taking everything personally, but yeah. Okay. If you say so. You did say the argument was pointless in an angry manner. You know, kinda like this comment. So, I assumed the argument was making you angry. Sorry for assuming I guess. Also, I wouldn’t even call this arguing. Arguing, I feel, is less mature and this is just civilized debate. Analesia, I really appreciate all the links. I am having a hard time opening the last one, the one to the private conversation at the convention. I had seen it earlier, and I thought they were talking about the trailer kiss. I didn't adress this eariler but no problem! ASN was down today (well, it was for me and I'm assuming the same was true for you) so you might be able to see it now. I'm not sure what trailer kiss you're talking about but they are talking about one of them. The early season three trailer Maiko kiss. Well, I would say that’s already happening. She hasn’t seen Aang as a "sweet little guy just like Momo" since way back at "The Fortune Teller". Since then her romantic interest in Aang as grown with blushing, jealously, and leaning into the kiss a bit (more than in the new trailer ). So, you’re right, the real question is when this romantic interest becomes final.
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