|
Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Mar 17, 2008 17:15:29 GMT -5
bard if you don't give a sh## why are you still posting on this thread? because through your angry posts clearly show that you do care and if you don't get the f**k out please.
anyway kaneda is right we are too much of a melting pot of cultures and religions to keep all this god stuff in politics and law. we can change the constitution we've done it before lets do it again
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Mar 17, 2008 17:41:11 GMT -5
Bard Child- "In God we trust" should not be on our currency, and for that matter "So help you God" should not be part of taking the witness stand in the judicial process(there are states that you can't even take the witness stand if you don't recignuise God, or at least you could not untill recentally. I need to double check), the ten commandments should not be displayed in any government body venue, and most importantly any form of faith-based creationism should not be tought side-by-side evolution. These however are not the subject of the debate. There aren't more important things to be protesting because it's all part of the same problem, State mandated invocation of a faith-based deity, which is a violation of The First Amendment. "Under God" in the Pledge of Aligience is the subject of this debate however, so this is what we're talking about. But it's all the same. If your all crying over something so godarn mundane. You should whine over those words too (it's not abortion or racial percitcution it godarn word). It's premoting religion you say. You know what, guess what our nations founders where? Christants, guess also what. Christianty is our national religion. We're suppose to premote our nation's religion. (and let the whinging begin) Honestly who give a fart? It's been tradition for 200+ years. Nobody has been killed over something mundane nobody died. It's a word, and you butt hurting over something that in all reality has no hold on our lives. It's not life changing or socialital shattering. It's word. And it hold as much strength and power as saying "goddamit" thats it. You invoked gods name, we do it every day. Saying under an archicaich pledge, and not believing in god hurts no one. It honestly doesn't matter in the long run Wrong, many of the founding fathers were deist. In a nutshell, they believed that there was a creator and that he was neutral in the affairs of man. Many of the Founding Fathers of this nation rejected the idea that Jesus was their lord and savior and felt it was a good idea to give the rest of the country that option. Also, can you come up with a better argument than I'm whining about something that isn't all that important? Trust me I'm whining about the other subjects I mentioned as well, but they aren't the subject of this debate. If I brought them into the debate, I'd be going off topic, and I try not to do that in serious debates. Also, for your information, I'm not some rebelious teenager trying to get back at my parents. I'm 24, and I became an athiest after years of personal contemplation. I am not saying the things I'm saying on a whim.
|
|
|
Post by writer on Mar 17, 2008 17:51:25 GMT -5
In my eyes all atheists are nothing more then children throwing tantrum. You don't exist! I so I won't believe WAH! *pouts and turns back*
I hear the same agruments over and over. Athiests throw just as many tantrums as the fundemental Christians. The are really the same thing, only reversed.
Again I don't care, my entire point was that it's mundane it's pointless and we should get rid of the entire pledge. Since it was nothing more than method of control (thank you Carthy)
go head and agure over and over. But throug this post I don't see any serious injustic. If I had to say Under Bush I would. After being a catholic school and had to say the Hail mary every god darn day. I learn that prayers are meaniless and so are invokations. And people that say "it's wrong liberty for everyone!" is nothing more than a front.
Seriously nobody has died by not geting up during school or were ever and saying the pledge.
I hate i just as much as everyone else but I still do it. because in the long run it's eaiser just to do it then to make a fuss.
Fute te ipsum..
translate that...
|
|
|
Post by username on Mar 17, 2008 17:58:27 GMT -5
In my eyes all atheists are nothing more then children throwing tantrum. You don't exist! I so I won't believe WAH! *pouts and turns back* Excellent point. Atheists dont believe in God because they dont think he exists. Quite the observation rite thar.
|
|
|
Post by writer on Mar 17, 2008 18:07:12 GMT -5
I think Athiests are also extremely jaded too. >>
BUT I R SO OBSERVENT LOL
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Mar 17, 2008 18:16:11 GMT -5
So you feel that being quiet and not making a fuss is easier than standing up, and you're absolutely right, it is. If I were in the habbit of taking the easy route I wouldn't have even questioned the existence of God or any supernatural force in the first place, and you may not see the point of arguing against religous incursion into legal and state policy, but I do, and that point is the very thing you had to endure as a child. I don't want to live in a society where I have to recignuise a being I have no belief in, or use for, on threat of pain or pain of death. And I most certainly don't want any child to endure the abuse you went through.
|
|
|
Post by writer on Mar 17, 2008 18:30:27 GMT -5
Funny thing I only cause the pain myself. I inflicted it. I learned that and I stopped making it difficult.
Seriously kids that make it difficult are only hurting themselves
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Mar 17, 2008 19:08:20 GMT -5
Yes, it's the child's fault, something doesn't make sense so they either get on their knees and prey till you do, or you get punished until you do. Bard Child- If you honestly can't bring yourself to make a fuss over this, then by all means don't make a fuss over it. It's a free country and you can. If you can give me another topic which to argue for or against by all means lets hear what you have to say, but don't say that children being forced to believe something about the unknowible by sheer abuse is the child's fault for not believing it faster. Faith in the unknowible is personal, and no one has the right to inflict their belief on someone else because it is personal. Stop blaming victems, and most importantly, stop blaming yourself.
|
|
ilovetaang03
Avatar Yangchen
Im a secret AGENT MAN. A SECRET AGENT MAN!!!! (though im a girl)
Posts: 1,522
|
Post by ilovetaang03 on Mar 17, 2008 19:14:49 GMT -5
In my eyes all atheists are nothing more then children throwing tantrum. You don't exist! I so I won't believe WAH! *pouts and turns back* I hear the same agruments over and over. Athiests throw just as many tantrums as the fundemental Christians. The are really the same thing, only reversed. bard, atheists don't throw tantrums. thats a mean prejudiced against atheists.
|
|
|
Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Mar 17, 2008 19:57:02 GMT -5
wow bard if you wanna lie back and literally take it be my guest but i really don't think it should be invoked in any part of this countries government. god has nothing to do with the united states
|
|
|
Post by CountessRachel on Mar 18, 2008 0:37:47 GMT -5
Ok, this thread is getting a bit off topic and unnecessarily heated. Lets tone it down just a tad and get back on track. Religion's a sensitive subject so let's respect each other's thoughts and opinions by cutting back on the sarcasm, guys. Please and thanks.
|
|
|
Post by writer on Mar 18, 2008 2:41:50 GMT -5
[/quote]Bard Child- If you honestly can't bring yourself to make a fuss over this, then by all means don't make a fuss over it. It's a free country and you can. If you can give me another topic which to argue for or against by all means lets hear what you have to say, but don't say that children being forced to believe something about the unknowible by sheer abuse is the child's fault for not believing it faster.[/quote]
A child isn't being forced to believe anything thats thing. It's saying a phrase mindlessly and obendily so it can get to his desk and draw/make spitwats or whatever. My god when I worked in a preschool the kids said it like it was nothing. They are four years old the only thing they cared about is snack time,
when kids start making a fuss and causing noise and protesting to make trouble, Then it there fault and my god, Losing recesse isn't the end of the world. Hell it saved me a few times from getting my Equus asinus kicked
|
|
ilovetaang03
Avatar Yangchen
Im a secret AGENT MAN. A SECRET AGENT MAN!!!! (though im a girl)
Posts: 1,522
|
Post by ilovetaang03 on Mar 18, 2008 17:53:04 GMT -5
yeah back on topic people. pledge of alligence, under god.................
|
|
Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
|
Post by Power on Mar 18, 2008 18:43:52 GMT -5
*Cracks Knuckles*
Before I get to the main topic let me say this: That statement above cuts both ways and I agree with Bard. I may be repeating what she said, but not all atheists are the calm, cool, collective folks that people make them out to be. How do I know? I have worked with them. Just as how there are Christians that seem to engorge themselves in radical fundamentalism and blow things out of proportion, same thing GOES for atheists. Like or not , that's how it is.
To get to the topic, can somebody fill me in on how much of the US society is willing to have this changed? I mean in all honesty, what would this gain? Little to nothing IMO. If it gets done, then we might as well just collect all the US currency, paper bills and coins with the phrase "In God we Trust" and recycle it into new "non Godified" currency which would be nothing but a total waste of money.
The word "God" is almost everywhere. You don't have to recognize it if you don't believe in a higher power, but accept the fact that it is there and move on.
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Mar 18, 2008 19:24:06 GMT -5
It's not a religious or athiest issue, it's a human one, and that's something we all are regardless of religion.
The idea of "under God" in the pledge being popular does not make it right. The same goes for "In God we trust" being on our currency. A majority may not care about state-mandated recignision of God, and some may even like it, but it violates the First Amendment right to freedom of religion, and freedom from religion.
As for a soution to the printing problem, all that needs to be done is stop printing currency with "In God we trust" on it and the currency with it printed on circulate out as normal. No need to waste money pulling it out of circulation early. (On a side note, coin collectors would love it XD)
If someone displays a cross or any religious symbol in their home or private business, I can't stop them and I don't have a right too. I can take my business elsewhere if it bothers me (which it very likely wouldn't) but if a religious symbol is being displayed in a Government building, I can't take my business elsewhere, because there is only one U.S. Government. I have no one else I can deal with.
|
|