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Post by metalwork on Feb 15, 2008 5:28:43 GMT -5
Honestly, It's there already. Why remove it? It would be just a hassle anyway.
People who are religious should not interfere with the non-religious, and vice-versa.
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Post by ShizukaSakoi on Feb 15, 2008 9:46:20 GMT -5
thankx metalwork I like your sig^^ I think that since the "freedom of religoen" is in the constitution, it gives you the right to show it publically. It woul dbe like taking away the "freedom of speech" no one would like that now would they? Freedom of religoen is for everyone, no matter what denomination your in. Thats one thing that makes this coutry different, we can choose what we want to do, rather than have soemone tell us what we should do. If you celebrate christianity, Jewish, or anything else, thats great, Its your hoice, if you dont want to say the under God part of the pledge then dont, but for those who do, leave it in, and say it.^^
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ilovetaang03
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Post by ilovetaang03 on Feb 15, 2008 16:20:02 GMT -5
the under god part was added in like the 50's after a threat from conuisum or somthing.
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Post by spiritmage234 on Feb 15, 2008 16:26:06 GMT -5
All I have to say is that I find it a bit odd that I never heard about this controversy prior to September 11th, that is, people never made a big enough deal about it to make it national importance.
Then again, I was in 7th grade and uncaring about politics.
:shrugs:
(Then again, America was pretty lax about a lot of things up until that point...)
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Feb 18, 2008 23:06:17 GMT -5
People who are religious should not interfere with the non-religious, and vice-versa. Well, the thing is, everyone in public school has to say the Pledge every day. Or, at least, they're supposed to. However, the pledge is not part of the church system, it's part of the state; so no mention of religion should be made at all. Therefore, it's unconstitutional to have the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge. Honestly, the Pledge doesn't have much use. Outside of school, I've heard it referenced once. It was the radio claiming Barack Obama was unpatriotic because the didn't say the Pledge. Really, how many people out of school still say the pledge every day? Even though I am Agnostic, I don't care about whether it says "Under God" or not. It's more politically correct to not have it in, but if it was taken out, every Christian in America would be up in arms (exaggeration-- don't take offense at that). There are more important things the government should be focusing on. And, as most of our political leaders are Christian, a bill would probably not get through Congress, let alone get to the president.
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Post by metalwork on Feb 19, 2008 0:21:37 GMT -5
The funny thing is is that, why are they trying to get it out?
That is what I mean.
What is their intent on getting it out? To me is just seems that they wanted to start a stupid little controversy. It was fine being in the pledge because most people didn't really care about it anyway. So why go so far as to take it out when it was fine the way it was?
I mean, why would you have a problem saying, "Under God" in the first place? It's two words....You go to school when you don't want to, right? Two words won't leave you with bruises.
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Post by CountessRachel on Feb 19, 2008 1:59:54 GMT -5
Well, the argument is that the separation of church and state is being violated. You're right. Whether or not "Under God" is in the pledge is the most meaningless trifle anyone in their right mind would worry about (beyond simple chitchat in Internet forums). People are trying to get it out because they have nothing better to do with their time and money. Otherwise, they'd find more constructive uses for these things.
And, apparently it's not fine the way it is because people actually do make a big stink over it. It's a perspective though. To me, the issue isn't important. I actually have more of a problem with forcing kids to say the pledge period. But, again, that's a personal choice people make. No one forces anyone to say it. They could just stand and not say anything until it's over with.
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Post by metalwork on Feb 19, 2008 2:06:08 GMT -5
Honest opinion?
I agree. It IS a bit on the ridiculous side to make the kids pledge. We are not made to love our country, but we are given the choice to. Then again what is the idea of falling in love with dirt anyway?
If someone has a problem with pledging, they really DON'T have to pledge, just don't make it obvious, there are a lot of idiots who like to point that crap out and make a "scene" to get themselves noticed.
Pathetic.
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Post by ShizukaSakoi on Feb 19, 2008 20:16:40 GMT -5
They made the pledge so poeple could kinda show their loyalty in a way i think? (Back then they pladged that they would work and stuff alot, most agreements were done verbally not writen down) Their are pledges to more than just this country though, every wednesday we say a pledge to the American flag, to the Christian flag, and to the Bible. (thats when we have chapel) Other than that, i dont think we say the pledge that much, my homeroom teacher forgets about it half the time. But whoever is trying to get it removed has to much time on their hands, its been fine the way it was for years, and they need to let it go. And besides, do you see them making and arguement about the money? It says "In GOD we trust" on it.
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Post by CountessRachel on Feb 20, 2008 12:08:10 GMT -5
People do actually make an argument about money saying in "God." But it'd cost a tremendous amount more to remove it than it would to leave it as is. It won't spend any differently.
Back when the pledge was invented, it was originally developed by the American flag manufacturer to stimulate purchase of American flags. They figured if people had a poem to go along with the flag, they'd buy more.
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Post by ShizukaSakoi on Feb 20, 2008 15:44:16 GMT -5
Well whoever is trying to get it our of the pledge is wasting their time, there are alot of poeple who like it in as it is, and who dont want it removed.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Mar 6, 2008 22:27:58 GMT -5
chuurch with that theory. personally i think it should be taken out. why because no matter how many people believe in god, this isn't a religious state. it is a democracy. we should say under democracy instead of under god. and for all those people who think it should stay in because its been there forever. you could say the same thing for the three fifths law or electoral college which were both based on slavery so that is just a lame excuse.
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FireRani
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Post by FireRani on Mar 6, 2008 23:11:26 GMT -5
I don't see the big deal. If your an athiest then it's just another two words and it doesn't mean anything. I personally am not a christain but I don't think you have to be a christain to find honor in saying that. I'm into universalism (not majorly just in the back of my head) and god in being in everyone and everything so if I were to say the pledge of allegiance right now I would be thinking of God in my terms. So if you have a different god then christainty think of "under god" as your god. Or if you have many god think of "under god' as your favorite god. You do not have to always think of God as the christain god.
Also I think that it being in the pledge of allegiance is purely political. I don't think most politicians are actually christains, they just say that to get in with the christain community (which is a major part of America), because if George Bush is a real christain I will eat my left hand.
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Post by girlunderglass on Mar 7, 2008 14:22:57 GMT -5
I believe it needs to remain in the pledge.
Regardless of whether or not you believe in a high being, the founding fathers of this country did. The Pledge was a solemn oath that our forefather swore upon prior to building the foundation in which we still base our everyday lives as Americans- The Constitution.
Although it might sound a bit nostalgic, I think some of our earlier roots need to be preserved, such as the pledge, in its original wording. When people lose hope in things, it is best said to go back to the beginning of when things started... our pledge is the beginning.
It needs to be left alone. Just as people expect others to be tolerant of their lives/lifestyles, everyone needs to be equally tolerant to the very roots of this country.
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Post by CountessRachel on Mar 7, 2008 16:35:49 GMT -5
Just some misconceptions I think you have...
The original pledge: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
(And we didn't come up with the pledge until the late 1800's--long after this nation was established as a sovereign entity).
Also, I reeeeeeeally hate the whole "what our founding fathers intended" argument. Because if we go on that concept, there'd still be white, middle-aged males running everything and no other groups would have any voice whatsoever.
Just had to throw that out there.
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