Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 0:41:59 GMT -5
Hes my man. Recently he released Info on how much money he raised. Over 20million dollars, almost all of it from the citizens. Unlike candidates like Clinton, who get all of their money from corporations. NONE of Ron Paul's Ideas or policies are extreme, though it may seem that way. This is because Ron Paul has a good understanding of History and is True to the Constitution of the US. in the primaries, he finished only 3 points behind Mccain, and 6 points ahead of Giuliani. I am verry Tired, so I wont go into all of his policies, only that he is against the war, and understands that democracy can not function properly while the government tries to run everything for the benefit of big business. If our founders could pick one person to be president of all the candidates, It would be Ron Paul Ron Paul rising- 4 minutes.Ron Paul Town Hall, Pt. 1 (01/06/08)- 29 minutesRon Paul : Stop Dreaming- 8 minutes.Educating Rudy- 5 minutesCandidates@Google: Ron Paul- 65 minutes Congressman Ron Paul Visits My Dorm Room- 4 minutesRon Paul: A New Hope- 8 minutesRon Paul : Don't tread on me- 8 minutes Ron Paul : When in the course of human events...- 8 minutesRon Paul in 2002 : Wisdom Before the Iraq WarCNN: Ron Paul - far exceeding expectations - 1/04/2008Mess With Ron Paul & You Will "Feel The Wrath"RP main page: issuesEDIT: this one is funny Hillary Clinton Censorship of Ron Paul at Denver RallyUPDATE: Ron Paul at the South Carolina Debate 1-10-08UPDATE: Mark Larsen interviews Romney and changes his vote for Ron PaulUPDATE: Ron Paul at the CNN Reagan Library Debate 1-30-08
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Post by Gran Gran on Jan 8, 2008 11:36:05 GMT -5
Unfortunately 20 million won't get you anywhere.
I think 140 million is the current standard, or even more then that.
This leaves about 120 million to be covered and not likely from ordinary citizens. (On a side note, not only 'the Clintons' raised money from big business, The current President didn't come up with the 140 million out of his own pocket either!)
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 11:43:21 GMT -5
I think 140 million is the current standard, or even more then that. could you provide a link, im pretty sure thats not right. then again, when I said 20 mil, i was talking about only one quarter. and when they say the 6 million dollar man, they are talking about only one day. but its because of his ideas that you should listen to him.
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attonbitus
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Post by attonbitus on Jan 8, 2008 12:16:59 GMT -5
I did find it interesting the fox new did not invite him to the a debate with other republican candidates. Even though he finished better than Thomas and was right behind Guliani in Iowa. In response the Republican Party of NH pulled their endorsement from the debate.
Personally, I don't think he's going to get the republican presidential candidate spot, however he might have started a strong movement for a viable 3rd party.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 12:22:32 GMT -5
actually he BEAT Giuliani, and by 6 points. and he was only 3 points behind Mccain, who many now consider to be the front-runner again.
But it is his Ideas that could push him over the edge. he is the only conservative who is a traditional conservative. unlike the Neo-conservatives who have dominated the republican party for the past three decades.
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Post by Gran Gran on Jan 8, 2008 12:27:29 GMT -5
I think 140 million is the current standard, or even more then that. could you provide a link, im pretty sure thats not right. then again, when I said 20 mil, i was talking about only one quarter. and when they say the 6 million dollar man, they are talking about only one day. but its because of his ideas that you should listen to him. www.opensecrets.org/bush/index.aspYou are corect, the numbers are much higher.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 12:48:26 GMT -5
thats allot, but remember, that amount is the total he used for the whole campaign. this 20mil mentioned is only for one quarter of the iwoa primaries... but I was kinda hoping we could talk about his actual ideas. his policies. what he stands for... these are the things that matter, not the size of your wallet. (but if you discount corporate contributions, he has the biggest wallet, which says something about how much support his ideas have IMO.)
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Post by Gran Gran on Jan 8, 2008 13:30:58 GMT -5
Discuss his ideas all you want, just don't bring in campaign finances as proof, nor compare them to other candidates, especially of the other party.
I just pointed out that 20 million dollars are not even pocket change in the presidential race, so you can't claim it as a pro to underline the absence of big business influence in his decisions were he to be elected president.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 14:53:30 GMT -5
again, its still EXTREEMLY early in the presentational race. and the 20 mil was only one quarter of one primary.
It the other it is estimated that when the other candidates come out with their figures for the quarter, none of the republicans will top that ammount of money and only Clinton and Obama MIGHT top it.
you cant compare his current figures so early in the campaign to the figures of a finished campaign when we have more then 90% of the race still to go. you cant compare X to Y when really its more like X(x) to Y. you have to compare it to another quarterly earning. X(x) to Y(y)
but really, Im hoping to find somebody against one of his policies or philosophies so we can discuss them. there are one (maby two) of his things that i disagree with, but im discounting them myself because I am so much in support of everytihing else.
EDIT: ill start with something i posted in the manly thread...
our forefathers were able to see that the purpose of politics was to be an organized and open forum for the people. That is to say, that the purpose of politics was to enable man, NOT to restrict man.
which is what the constitution was designed to do. To magnify and preserve the effects of democracy, but making sure that decisions were made by the people and for the people.
we have strayed form the constitution with a president who believes that he can Print artificial money to fund an illegal war. this creates an inflation tax on the middle and lower classes, keeping them in their own cast. meanwhile, the already rich benefit from this temporary inflation that the war and "nation-building" create. And because corporations are counted more as "people" in our economy then actual people, it gives the illusion that everything is fine and dandy. When the reality is, all china would have to do, is stop lending us money, and our economy would collapse. we would then not be able to fund all of ouu military operations overseas. We would have to pull-out for economic reasons instead of voluntarily, and if that happened, our enemies really WOULD follow us home...
Kinda went off on a tangent there, but a constitanalist philosophy would never have gotten us into this kind of mess, and more importantly, it is the best chance we have of getting out of it.
It is because he has not lost the wisdom of the context and history of the democracy's foundations , that i will reregister republican just to vote for this guy.
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attonbitus
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Post by attonbitus on Jan 8, 2008 16:40:33 GMT -5
I like Ron Paul but the method in which we elect our president pretty much prevents any type of 3rd party (and I consider Paul to be a 3rd party since his ideas are not really inline with "mainstream" republicans) from winning the office.
Both the Demos and the Repubs closely guard who they give the nomination to. They often look for the canidate they can influence the most rather than who's best for the country.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 17:36:18 GMT -5
First, let me say that no election has even been decided by a single vote. even the 2000 Flordia election was decided by a difference of over 500 votes.
you should always vote for who you believe in, for who has the best Ideas. Democracy is not a strategy or a game to be played, it is is a philosophy that works when each individual acts on when s/he believes in. This is epically true with the primary. you could argue that If every body who voted for a green party in 2000 gave the presidency to Bush. But voting for Ron Paul will in no way take the primary victory from a desirable candidate from the republican side because besides Ron Paul there is NO desirable canadates on the Republican side.
Now, I would agree with you that Ron Paul doesnt have a chance in hell IF it were not for the MAJOR influence the internet.
The system you mentioned that controls who wins the primary, that is run by the corporate Media and it has been demonstrated that the corporate media is verry hostile towards Paul, espically after they considered him a threat. FoxNews denied him the ability to attend the most recent debate, even after he spanked Giulini in the primarys, even though he was nipping at mccians heels, even after he raised more money then any of the republican candidates, and from legit sources as well... Why? Because after EVERY debate Ron Paul attends, the polls always says that the people belived that he did the best.
But the effect of corporate media is Hugely mitigated by the Internet. The internet is being used more and more as an alternative to corporate media for information. and on the internet, Ron Paul has, by far, more support and information then any other candidate out there.
o, and on a side note, Hilary (and other candidates im sure) want government regulated censorship of the internet.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 8, 2008 17:49:12 GMT -5
none of his ideas are extreme? like every other republicans he is pro-life does not believe in global warming and is against gay righta, i find that extreme. just because he wants to abolish the IRS and leave the Iraq war doesn't make him any better than the rest of those religious nut-jobs republicans call politicians. he also is against giving student visas to terrorist countries. what the hell does that mean?
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 18:05:56 GMT -5
none of his ideas are extreme? like every other republicans he is pro-life does not believe in global warming and is against gay righta, i find that extreme. first off, all of those things are not extreem, and easyly debatable by moderates, and to think they are extreem, is in itself extreem IMO. In fact Im pretty sure all of those have their own threads, so lets not get too much into them. I am Pro-life, I am not extreme, but i just belive that, even if my mother was raped, I would like to exist. I belive In the possibility of global warming, but the science is far from conclusive and verry open to debate. If you actually research the issue, the issue of climate change is undebatable, but the Idea that we are the cause, is up for debate. for example, cow farts contribute more to CO2 emissions then cars. /shrug. either way, RP just doesnt belive that it is the presidents job to diticate such things. For example, the current administration is blocking the rights of 16 states to mandate that all cars should run on XMPG. RP would allow that completely. Ist not the job of the Government to try to control the economy and the ecology for the benefit of oil companies. also, i assume you meant to say "gay marriage" sorry, you are mistaken, RP is not against gay marrage. he thinks that gays should have the right to be together, and they can call it whatever the hell they want to. but the government has no place in that debate, and I agree. good question. what the hell DOES that mean... why the hell would you want to give student visas to terrorist countries? why would he be for something like that... im not sure why you bring it up.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 8, 2008 18:19:30 GMT -5
what i meant is what justifies as a terrorist country. and if you believe in those things good for you. but i don't and i think people just look at iraq war. i see you actually researched him which makes me just a little respect for you oh yeah he also wants to remove the united states from NATO and the UN. i think that is absolutely ridiculous. he basically has no foreign policy. wait his foreign policy is to have no foreign policy which for a super power like us to remove diplomatic ties with the rest of the world could be catastrophic.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 18:32:39 GMT -5
Nope. He actually believes that we should increase Trade and diplomacy, but only on an equal world stage.
what he is against, is our policy of nation-building. that is, going into other 3ed world countries, establishing military bases, and then forcing them to adopt economic and political policies that we feel would be beneficial to us. and in return, we lend them money, with the intention of making them as dependent on us as we are on china. And we have no business lending anyone money in that way untill we balance the budget at home.
he completely advocates the trade we do in Viet Nam for example, and also suggests we start using the model of what happened after the Nam pull-out as what we could see as an after-effect from pulling out of Iraq, If done diplomatically.
he even supports wars, IF, they are approved by congress and constitutionally legal, that is to say, they directly confront a threat to national security, and leave when that threat has been addressed.
and from what I have heard, RP has never condoned calling a country terrorist. he has criticized Rudy and other republicans multiple times for labeling Iran and the middle east as stereotypically terrorist.
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