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Post by Blind Bandit on Dec 7, 2007 7:02:03 GMT -5
That sucks. What?? I didn't even give you a reason to have the impression that I believe every immigrant or foreign person is a terrorist. Everyone lets stay on topic.
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Post by Karatelover on Dec 7, 2007 10:04:59 GMT -5
Well no, not every illegial immagrnt is a terrorist, or a bad person. Heck most of them are trying to support their families back home. However there are those few bad apples that are dealing drugs and starting crime. But personally about the voting. Well I just have one question to ask. If I were to go to Canada or Russia, and I'm not a citizen, do you think I should vote for the president? I mean don't you have to be a citizen to vote anyways?
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Post by CountessRachel on Dec 8, 2007 0:32:29 GMT -5
If you go to Canada or Russia and a) you get there by safe and legal means, b) you intend on staying put and living/working there, and c) you acquire the necessary forms, learn the national language (though for Canda, English works) and go through protocol to become a citizen
then yes, you deserve citizenship and the right to participate in their elections.
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Post by Karatelover on Dec 15, 2007 11:07:33 GMT -5
If you go to Canada or Russia and a) you get there by safe and legal means, b) you intend on staying put and living/working there, and c) you acquire the necessary forms, learn the national language (though for Canda, English works) and go through protocol to become a citizen then yes, you deserve citizenship and the right to participate in their elections. Yah but like us, Russia is dealing with some illegal immagration issues of their own. A lot of people from the Caucases are migrating to Russia illegally like from Georiga, Armiania, and Azirbanzan, or whatever that country is called. And the Russian's aren't too fond of people from the Caucauses at all. Not just because they're taking jobs from the Russians, but race could be an issue along with culture. I mean it's not the Mexican's fault that Mexico is screwed up! It's not the Georgian's fault that Georgia is screwed up! But I don't mean to sound cruel, but you can't just walk into another courntry illegally and vote, I mean would I just walk into Quebec and vote? No I'm not a citizen. So if you're not a legal citizen then you shouldn't vote. But if American's aren't careful then they'll be nationalistic like the Russians. So I guess what I'm saying is I could care less if forgeiners who mirgated to this country legally vote. But if its illegals. But personally it's like my dad said, if they have to be in this country then there should be a waver. You know, help build buildings and then when the waver is used up either renew or or go back to Mexico. Because I hear in other countries unimployment= crime.
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Ming Ue
Haru
MingZula: The one true ship!
Posts: 341
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Post by Ming Ue on Dec 18, 2007 18:40:46 GMT -5
Alright, even though I don't think "illegal immigrants" deserve full voting rights here are a few points I want to bring up.
1) The U.S doesn't have an official language. So yes, we may speak English, but that's the language of this country.
2) As for the terrorist idea the worst terror related incidents, minus 9-11, are usually the work of home grown terrorist.
3) There is not just one kind of illegal immigrant. If someone comes here with a green-card or let's say student visa, they are a legal immigrant correct? Now what happens when that card has to be renewed or the visa runs out. That once legal immigrant is now illegal.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Dec 18, 2007 20:06:57 GMT -5
@karate: Why isn't it Mexico or Georgia's fault their country is "messed up"? Because America isn't being all "LOL LET US GIVE YOU MOAR MONEY AND FIX YOU THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO RUN YOUR ECONOMY/GOVERNMENT"? I don't understand what you're saying when you claim it's not their fault. Please clarify.
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Teoji
Meng
Teo's #1 fangirl
My OTP!
Posts: 285
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Post by Teoji on Dec 19, 2007 10:36:39 GMT -5
As for no official language, I beg to differ. Usually it's the founding fathers who dictate what the language of the country is going to be. The fact that there is other people speaking different languages does not mean that there is no official language. Tons of people speaking other languages visit other countries or move to other countries all the time, and they usually need to learn the local language to get around.
Home grown terrorist are yes, some of the worst. For example, the Unabomber.
As for the people who's visas or green cards run out, they have the option to renew them. It's their choice to renew and stay legal, leave back to their home country, or stay and become illegal. That is their choice.
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Ming Ue
Haru
MingZula: The one true ship!
Posts: 341
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Post by Ming Ue on Dec 19, 2007 13:25:17 GMT -5
Um this is an actual fact. The United Stated doesn't have an offical language. Period.
English is the de facto/natonal language
You can't renew your visa or green card until it expires. And you can get it renewed, but that takes awhile and for that time that person is an illegal immigrant.
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Post by Karatelover on Dec 22, 2007 4:22:18 GMT -5
@karate: Why isn't it Mexico or Georgia's fault their country is "messed up"? Because America isn't being all "LOL LET US GIVE YOU MOAR MONEY AND FIX YOU THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO RUN YOUR ECONOMY/GOVERNMENT"? I don't understand what you're saying when you claim it's not their fault. Please clarify. Well to be honest with you, the unimployment rate it very high in Mexico and Georiga (USSR). Plus it's hard to get jobs, and just recently a friend of mine from Mexico is thinking of getting a visa to come and work in the United States. Becasue she tells me that the economy isn't doing so great. To be honest with you, I think that the Mexican and Georgian economies aren't doing so great. So the best chance for Mexican's or Georgians to migrate to America/Russia legally is to go to the government and ask for a visa. So can someone tell me why both presidents of Mexico and Georiga (USSR) aren't doing worth crap to help their economy? I mean if they had better relations with other countries and created more jobs, then the people would be less willing to migrate. But then again, there are more jobs in America and Russia. Plus with Georgia, it's a small country so there aren't as many as Mexicans would be my guess. I don't know. So when I mean messed up I don't literlly messed up. What I really mean is both their economies. Sorry I should have been more clear.
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Zink
Ty Lee
"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
Posts: 4,279
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Post by Zink on Dec 31, 2007 22:57:20 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with immigration. I don't buy the whole "Mexicans are stealing our jobs" bit because the job should go to the person who deserves it the most, be they American or forgien, and no one's entitled to a job because of their country of birth.
But you're an illegal immigrant, you're not a citizen. If you're not a citizen, you can't vote. Plain and simple.
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Post by CountessRachel on Jan 3, 2008 23:05:37 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with immigration. I don't buy the whole "Mexicans are stealing our jobs" bit because the job should go to the person who deserves it the most, be they American or forgien, and no one's entitled to a job because of their country of birth. Oh don't worry, illegal immigrants (not just Mexicans) are indeed "stealing" jobs. Actually, they get hired more often because consumers like competitively priced markets and ultimately drive down the price of labor, doing a slightly (or drastically) worse job due to lack of proper skills and training. I don't think people should be entitled to a job because of their country of birth--but I do think some people are NOT entitled to a job if they're in a country illegally. Same goes for voting rights.
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Post by Consonant*** on Jan 6, 2008 0:45:57 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with immigration. I don't buy the whole "Mexicans are stealing our jobs" bit because the job should go to the person who deserves it the most, be they American or forgien, and no one's entitled to a job because of their country of birth. They're getting hired because, since they're not U.S. Citizens, they don't have to be paid the minimum wage. And since most business owners will take the cheapest option possible, nobody is given a chance.
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Post by Gran Gran on Jan 15, 2008 9:54:08 GMT -5
According to statistics an unemplayment rate of 4% is considered full employment. Those 4% are either not really looking for work or really not good.
Granted the pay plays a role in it, but a lot of people don't want a dirty job be it dealing with life stock or doing physical work, like working in the fields. I worked in the sector, for minimum wage and I can tell you, the people who walked through the door were an utter waste of space.
So while the illegals offer a cheap solution, they also fill a need for labor that is otherwise not covered.
There are too many things playing into this, burocratic red tape and political agendas. Different levels of government and different branches there of. I think without the work force provided the economy would take a hit.
However, that does not mean the individuals should be granted the right to vote. I mean, not even legal residents get that. If you want to have a say so, take the necessary steps and become a citizen. (Though on a communal level I could see there to be a valid interest superceding the national concern)
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Sheogorath
Kyoshi Azula
Lord of the Never-There
Yeah, an Avatard and a brony. Got a problem with that?
Posts: 2,223
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Post by Sheogorath on Jan 16, 2008 4:46:01 GMT -5
I've said much of what I intended to say a few pages ago, but I feel that those who do decide to go through the proper channels and become legal U.S. citizens should have to wait to be able to vote for a period of a minimum of a year to a maximum of four, depending on how long til the Presidential election after they become legal. If you think about it, people born here are legal U.S. citizens, but they don't have the right to vote the day they're born, so why should someone who was born in Etheopia, for example, be legally able to vote in this nation the very day they're officially citizens? I say it's not right to spot them the right to vote with citizenship when those born here have to wait a third of their lives to get it and less than a third choose to do so.
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Post by Gran Gran on Jan 16, 2008 7:57:22 GMT -5
Because they have lived in this country several years before they became citizens and they cared enough to become one. As I recall we are talking 7 years, not a couple of days.
And frankly, a few people born in this country should not only never be allowed to vote, but be deported for the greater benefit. (sarcastic remark of the day...)
You have to prove you are eager to become a citzen, take a test that is very comprehensive. Byt the time you are done you are well prepared to go to the booth and vote.
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