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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Aug 8, 2008 17:25:39 GMT -5
This first part is This is why I don't like the UN. We don't need to get involved in Georgia's affairs. I don't mean to sound cruel, but GEORGIA'S PROBLEMS ARE NOT OURS. Look to George Washington's inaugural address, or Henry Cabot Lodge's speeches for information. I hope this doesn't bubble over, and if we get involved, our first strikes need to be to any nuclear sites and stockpiles. Then Moscow. And call this thing of when the snows come, or you'll get smacked around like the Nazis. well Georgia's problems are a big issue for us because they had over 2,000 troops in iraq which are now being re-deployed back to the home front. also most of the fight is not taking place in georgia but in south ettia which favors russia. however they would not make a deal with Georgia in becoming its own country. so Georgia threatened to invade unless they made a deal which led to the occupation of south ettia by the Russians. this could become pretty big. we should keep an eye on how this escalates.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 9, 2008 1:06:56 GMT -5
Youve got oil, Nukes and Russia. This makes it everybody's concern. I think the conflict just mayend up giving America some much needed leverage in dealing with Russia. You dont always need ground troops to wage a war. Putin is ex-KGB and understands that.
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Post by Milkman on Aug 9, 2008 6:57:40 GMT -5
I don't think the US is going to wage war against russia or send troops to Georgia. Bush can't pay another war. It's more likely that the US is going to secretly send weapons to Georgia like they did when russian forces fought muslim extremist in afghanistan in the 80's
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 9, 2008 7:20:42 GMT -5
^^ Back to the good old days of the cold war! Im old enough to remember the tail end of it but you young 'un's are in for a treat!!
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Aug 9, 2008 10:35:02 GMT -5
there is no way nukes will be used you can forget that the countries are too close to each other. that is not a concern at all.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 10, 2008 19:30:24 GMT -5
^^ I didnt mean to imply that intentional use was necessarily an issue but the presence of a nuclear power does highten tension. Look at Pakistan and Israel. Their most immediate enemies are too close for intended nuclear strikes as well.
@historyman- This is Katara America were talking about. Look to Kennedy's Inaugural speech. "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
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attonbitus
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Post by attonbitus on Aug 11, 2008 11:24:26 GMT -5
I personally don't think this conflict would have happened if Georgia was in NATO. The whole point of it was to be a check against the USSR (russia) aggression in the region. If anything Russia is doing this to secure their own oil supply.
The pipeline in question is of strategic importance because it runs through countries traditionally considered friendly to the west.
I'm really surprised the EU hasn't been more aggressive in their response as this affects them the most directly.
At the end of the day all this displays the Russian ability to do what they want, where they want, and there will be no help for the smaller countries on it's boarders. At the same time it damages the US standing as an ally to the rest of the world. If we weren't #1 before we might have just dropped out of the top 3 influential countries.
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attonbitus
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Post by attonbitus on Aug 11, 2008 14:58:50 GMT -5
Well South Osettia declared it's independence from Georgia back in the 90's it's not like this just brewed up over night.
So far the only thing that US has done of consequence was transport the 1000 Georgian troops from Iraq to the conflict zone. Russia knows about this and Putin stated
I mean we need to help our allies, this tells the world we won't come help militarily. What happens when China decides to take Taiwan, or one of the many arab countries tries to form a coalition to wipe out Israel?
At least Israel has nukes for a zero sum game.
Hell if we didn't already have troops in South Korea, the North would be over embolden.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 11, 2008 19:33:59 GMT -5
^^ The point about Tawan is a crucial one. If the Taiwanese people decide they dont want independence and really wants to become part of China, I think everyone will breathe a sigh of relief because it would mean never having to find out if America is willing to honor JFK'S pledge. Still, part of the child in me that grew up believing in Heroes and Good Guys would have loved to see that happen. In terms of military, economic and political strategy, it would be sheer suicide. But of the Alamo kind. The kind you can be proud of.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Aug 11, 2008 19:37:41 GMT -5
well i think both sides are bad now. Georgia bombed South Ossettia killing 2,000 people. of course the U.S shouldn't get involved because both sides are bad.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 11, 2008 19:46:03 GMT -5
^^ Thats what Russia says and Russia has consistantly tried to paint Georgia in a bad light. We dont know if thats how it happened. There is no way the US can stay out of this one. Morality aside, theres too much at stake. Actually, the arguments used by Russia to justify its invasion and occupation of South Osettia are basically a variation of those used by the US previously in other engagements so it doesnt require much imagination to see what the counter arguments would be.
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attonbitus
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Post by attonbitus on Aug 12, 2008 8:37:39 GMT -5
Russia's split the country in half effectively disrupting the use of the pipeline in the future. Today the Russian Pres declared an end to the "punishment of the Georgian government". Coincidence? I think not.
There's been some talk that this will start a new cold war were the US will provide more military aid to Georgia who will then arm their own rebels in the Russian occupied zones.
This would actually be the worst scenario. Russian would let the rebels operate for 3-4 months while they consolidate their holdings. During this time they would paint the image that the rebels are terrorist funded by the Georgian government. At what ever time, they use this excuse to invade and wipe out the rest of the country's government.
The cold war was just that cause both sides feared mutual annihilation. Russia knows we won't act militarily now so they have nothing to fear.
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asian malaysian
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Post by asian malaysian on Aug 12, 2008 22:55:53 GMT -5
Somethimes, I think the war never realy ended. I like that most nations only talk about "strategic" alliances and relationships with Russia as though, if not for reasons of strategy, they wouldnt be caught dead in the same room with Russia. Russia is now supporting the separatists in South Osettia (whose independence I doubt has been diplomatcally recognised by anyone outside the old soviet block ). Considering that Russia is not without its own Checnyan separatist movements who want to break away from Russia, theyre position in respect of South Osettia is prickly to say the least. Rusia has been a thorn in the side of the US on many other international issues including Iran and Zimbabwe. I think that America will use these new chips to do some horse trading with Russia on other issues more fundamental to American interest abroad. Thats as long as the Russians keep their heads and play hard but by the rules which would be consistent with their behavior. Still, Ive stopped taking bets on predictable behaviour post 9/11. All it takes is one idiotic act and you can have a whole new ball game.
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