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Post by Holierthanthou on Jun 21, 2007 17:54:16 GMT -5
It is not a question of whether or not an avatar can love, but whether or not the heavens, spirits, elemental karma or whatever is responsible for the Avatar cycle, even permits Avatar marriage or offspring. What is that link from? A game? Because even in that it looks almost like divine intervention to prevent the marriage. The Seventh Chakra could account for most of that. If he doesn't open it, I don't see a reason he couldn't get married/have kids. Do you think these laws exist, or are you being hypothetical? I do not know if these laws exist, so I suppose I am being hypothetical, but I could see a clear logical reason for their existence. If the Avatar has some parallels with the Dalai Lama, this would seem to be a reasonable extension of that idea. It would be a preventative measure to ensure the priorities and responsibilities of the Avatar. Maybe something like, "The Avatar cannot have children because when you are the Avatar, all of the people of the Four Nations become your children and responsbility." All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above.
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 21, 2007 18:20:05 GMT -5
It is not a question of whether or not an avatar can love, but whether or not the heavens, spirits, elemental karma or whatever is responsible for the Avatar cycle, even permits Avatar marriage or offspring. What is that link from? A game? Because even in that it looks almost like divine intervention to prevent the marriage. I do not know if these laws exist, so I suppose I am being hypothetical, but I could see a clear logical reason for their existence. If the Avatar has some parallels with the Dalai Lama, this would seem to be a reasonable extension of that idea. It would be a preventative measure to ensure the priorities and responsibilities of the Avatar. Maybe something like, "The Avatar cannot have children because when you are the Avatar, all of the people of the Four Nations become your children and responsbility." All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above. id agree with you on that. if he couldnt marry, then one of his past lives would tell him it was forbidden.
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Monk
Haru
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Post by Monk on Jun 21, 2007 18:21:57 GMT -5
All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above. My stance on Kataang exists independently of me believing that such laws may exist for Avatars. So it is not a matter of me wanting these laws to exist and/or wanting or not wanting Kataang, as it stems from the premise that even if there is Kataang, is there something about Avatars (and all the Avatar Bylaws in small print and etc. that would apply) that would or could prevent the fruition of Kataang? I guess that part of this idea not only comes from the Dalai Lama, but also from the series Highlander, about the immortal swordsmen who are not permitted to have children, and the anime 12 Kingdoms, in which the ruler of the kingdom is picked by the heavens and once they accept the duties, the heavens prevent the ruler from having children (though children created prior to the divine selection do not apply). It is just that if Avatar did have children, then it would be likely that their descendants would potentially be alive. And since Avatars are "big deals," it would be something which people would most likely mention, which (again) to the best of my knowledge has not occurred. But then perhaps this really would seem to be potential questions to ask the creators.
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 21, 2007 18:24:40 GMT -5
All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above. My stance on Kataang exists independently of me believing that such laws may exist for Avatars. So it is not a matter of me wanting these laws to exist and/or wanting or not wanting Kataang, as it stems from the premise that even if there is Kataang, is there something about Avatars (and all the Avatar Bylaws in small print and etc. that would apply) that would or could prevent the fruition of Kataang? I guess that part of this idea not only comes from the Dalai Lama, but also from the series Highlander, about the immortal swordsmen who are not permitted to have children, and the anime 12 Kingdoms, in which the ruler of the kingdom is picked by the heavens and once they accept the duties, the heavens prevent the ruler from having children (though children created prior to the divine selection do not apply). It is just that if Avatar did have children, then it would be likely that their descendants would potentially be alive. And since Avatars are "big deals," it would be something which people would most likely mention, which (again) to the best of my knowledge has not occurred. But then perhaps this really would seem to be potential questions to ask the creators. if it was against the avatar law that he couldnt love, it wouldve been mentioned by now.
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Post by Holierthanthou on Jun 21, 2007 18:29:43 GMT -5
All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above. My stance on Kataang exists independently of me believing that such laws may exist for Avatars. So it is not a matter of me wanting these laws to exist and/or wanting or not wanting Kataang, as it stems from the premise that even if there is Kataang, is there something about Avatars (and all the Avatar Bylaws in small print and etc. that would apply) that would or could prevent the fruition of Kataang? I guess that part of this idea not only comes from the Dalai Lama, but also from the series Highlander, about the immortal swordsmen who are not permitted to have children, and the anime 12 Kingdoms, in which the ruler of the kingdom is picked by the heavens and once they accept the duties, the heavens prevent the ruler from having children (though children created prior to the divine selection do not apply). It is just that if Avatar did have children, then it would be likely that their descendants would potentially be alive. And since Avatars are "big deals," it would be something which people would most likely mention, which (again) to the best of my knowledge has not occurred. But then perhaps this really would seem to be potential questions to ask the creators. Ok, I respect that too, but do you like Kataang, or are you like Yiceman and only come here to bring objections. (I'm not saying that determines whether or not you do or don't like Kataang, Yice in particular doesn't but you could be different) Sure, there are no individuals running around saying, "I'm Kyoshi's great-grandson!" but that could just mean that it's not common or at the very least it's not made public. It could be kept hidden when someone is born to an Avatar, like am heir to the throne being kept secret to prevent blood-fued. Are there any reasons he shouldn't not couldn't?
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 21, 2007 18:34:25 GMT -5
My stance on Kataang exists independently of me believing that such laws may exist for Avatars. So it is not a matter of me wanting these laws to exist and/or wanting or not wanting Kataang, as it stems from the premise that even if there is Kataang, is there something about Avatars (and all the Avatar Bylaws in small print and etc. that would apply) that would or could prevent the fruition of Kataang? I guess that part of this idea not only comes from the Dalai Lama, but also from the series Highlander, about the immortal swordsmen who are not permitted to have children, and the anime 12 Kingdoms, in which the ruler of the kingdom is picked by the heavens and once they accept the duties, the heavens prevent the ruler from having children (though children created prior to the divine selection do not apply). It is just that if Avatar did have children, then it would be likely that their descendants would potentially be alive. And since Avatars are "big deals," it would be something which people would most likely mention, which (again) to the best of my knowledge has not occurred. But then perhaps this really would seem to be potential questions to ask the creators. Ok, I respect that too, but do you like Kataang, or are you like Yiceman and only come here to bring objections. (I'm not saying that determines whether or not you do or don't like Kataang, Yice in particular doesn't but you could be different) Sure, there are no individuals running around saying, "I'm Kyoshi's great-grandson!" but that could just mean that it's not common or at the very least it's not made public. It could be kept hidden when someone is born to an Avatar, like am heir to the throne being kept secret to prevent blood-fued. Are there any reasons he shouldn't not couldn't? another good answer by you there. if you havent noticed, alot of the avatars had enemies. For Kyoshi it was chin the conquerer, For Kuruk it was koh, for Aang its pretty much the whole fire nation army and navy, and we havent heard anything about Yangchen and Roku. Weve heard alot about Roku, but not too much detail. in conclusion what im saying is that with these enemies, youd wanna keep your children safe from them right?
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LiveInThaskyE
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 18:43:05 GMT -5
All right, I respect that. But the question is, do you want these laws to exist? Are you for or against Kataang. And that link is from a canon source. And I think Koh had a grudge against that particular Avatar, not a divine duty. It was Koh, not some interventionist, although he is a spirit so he could be given that job, but see above. id agree with you on that. if he couldnt marry, then one of his past lives would tell him it was forbidden. Yea, Roku wouldve told him by now, but it could be the fact that that fact of the Avatar life is not important right now. Aang needs to concentrate on defeating the Fire Lord,not matters of love.
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 21, 2007 18:45:29 GMT -5
id agree with you on that. if he couldnt marry, then one of his past lives would tell him it was forbidden. Yea, Roku wouldve told him by now, but it could be the fact that that fact of the Avatar life is not important right now. Aang needs to concentrate on defeating the Fire Lord,not matters of love. cant he do both?
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Melis
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Post by Melis on Jun 21, 2007 18:55:22 GMT -5
Yea, Roku wouldve told him by now, but it could be the fact that that fact of the Avatar life is not important right now. Aang needs to concentrate on defeating the Fire Lord,not matters of love. cant he do both? There's people who would say "no" that he couldn't because really, how are you going to fight head-on if you have someone you love dearly fighting on the same battlefield as you and could possibly die? You'd do whatever you can to protect them right? And that sometimes could lead to you wanting to concentrate on making sure that your loved one is okay, instead of focusing on your task at hand. But IMO, I believe that Aang will find that middle-way. He can do it. You could call Katara a weakness, but I wouldn't believe it. A) She's a strong girl and can take care of herself. B) If anything, to Aang, Katara is a source of hope and encouragement. She probably gives him this more than anyone and he needs that, along with his own confidence. As for the Avatars and a law that they can't settle down, I don't really know. There's not that much evidence to say one or the other, but it can be concluded that they weren't allowed to. It sort of makes the most sense, in a way, but I hope they answer these questions in the upcoming season.
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Monk
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Post by Monk on Jun 21, 2007 18:55:24 GMT -5
if it was against the avatar law that he couldnt love, it wouldve been mentioned by now. I have not said nor suggested that Avatars could not love - it would be strange if they did not and you can love someone without marriage or facilitating reproduction. It was more a concern of marriage and offspring. Ok, I respect that too, but do you like Kataang, or are you like Yiceman and only come here to bring objections. (I'm not saying that determines whether or not you do or don't like Kataang, Yice in particular doesn't but you could be different) I have nothing against Kataang apart from my own curiosity of the role of the Avatar itself. I do think that Kataang will in all probability happen. At times their relationship does seem to be romantic while at other times it is merely platonic or motherly, so I have not really decided. I am just relatively indifferent to the whole Kataang vs. Zatara thing. I would honestly prefer to just sit on the fence for the issue and see what happens as a lot can potentially change between now and the end. Sure, there are no individuals running around saying, "I'm Kyoshi's great-grandson!" but that could just mean that it's not common or at the very least it's not made public. It could be kept hidden when someone is born to an Avatar, like am heir to the throne being kept secret to prevent blood-fued. another good answer by you there. if you havent noticed, alot of the avatars had enemies. For Kyoshi it was chin the conquerer, For Kuruk it was koh, for Aang its pretty much the whole fire nation army and navy, and we havent heard anything about Yangchen and Roku. Weve heard alot about Roku, but not too much detail. in conclusion what im saying is that with these enemies, youd wanna keep your children safe from them right? True enough, but as many Avatar statues as we saw in the Air Temple Sanctuary, surely not all of them had enemies that necessitated the secrecy of their offspring or spouses? Are there any reasons he shouldn't not couldn't? There are always potential reasons which could be constructed as to why he should not depending upon what developments may occur in the future. And some of the reasons for the could nots could easily be constructed into reasons for the should nots. But I do not necessarily think that there are not too many should nots, which would prevent Kataang. Which may simply be another reason why we should ask the creators about this. If there are no reasons that being an Avatar could prevent Kataang, then it narrows it down to simply whether there are reasons that being an Avatar would prevent Kataang.
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Post by MasterPakku93 on Jun 21, 2007 19:15:44 GMT -5
if it was against the avatar law that he couldnt love, it wouldve been mentioned by now. I have not said nor suggested that Avatars could not love - it would be strange if they did not and you can love someone without marriage or facilitating reproduction. It was more a concern of marriage and offspring. I have nothing against Kataang apart from my own curiosity of the role of the Avatar itself. I do think that Kataang will in all probability happen. At times their relationship does seem to be romantic while at other times it is merely platonic or motherly, so I have not really decided. I am just relatively indifferent to the whole Kataang vs. Zatara thing. I would honestly prefer to just sit on the fence for the issue and see what happens as a lot can potentially change between now and the end. True enough, but as many Avatar statues as we saw in the Air Temple Sanctuary, surely not all of them had enemies that necessitated the secrecy of their offspring or spouses? Are there any reasons he shouldn't not couldn't? There are always potential reasons which could be constructed as to why he should not depending upon what developments may occur in the future. And some of the reasons for the could nots could easily be constructed into reasons for the should nots. But I do not necessarily think that there are not too many should nots, which would prevent Kataang. Which may simply be another reason why we should ask the creators about this. If there are no reasons that being an Avatar could prevent Kataang, then it narrows it down to simply whether there are reasons that being an Avatar would prevent Kataang. i never said that all of them had enemies. i just mentioned the ones weve heard about.
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Post by Holierthanthou on Jun 21, 2007 19:21:21 GMT -5
if it was against the avatar law that he couldnt love, it wouldve been mentioned by now. I have not said nor suggested that Avatars could not love - it would be strange if they did not and you can love someone without marriage or facilitating reproduction. It was more a concern of marriage and offspring. I have nothing against Kataang apart from my own curiosity of the role of the Avatar itself. I do think that Kataang will in all probability happen. At times their relationship does seem to be romantic while at other times it is merely platonic or motherly, so I have not really decided. I am just relatively indifferent to the whole Kataang vs. Zatara thing. I would honestly prefer to just sit on the fence for the issue and see what happens as a lot can potentially change between now and the end. True enough, but as many Avatar statues as we saw in the Air Temple Sanctuary, surely not all of them had enemies that necessitated the secrecy of their offspring or spouses? Are there any reasons he shouldn't not couldn't? There are always potential reasons which could be constructed as to why he should not depending upon what developments may occur in the future. And some of the reasons for the could nots could easily be constructed into reasons for the should nots. But I do not necessarily think that there are not too many should nots, which would prevent Kataang. Which may simply be another reason why we should ask the creators about this. If there are no reasons that being an Avatar could prevent Kataang, then it narrows it down to simply whether there are reasons that being an Avatar would prevent Kataang. I was simply saying that maybe Avatars, should they have children (seems uncommon since the Seventh Chakra writes off romantic love as attachment) would hide them or their lineage so they're great-granchildren wouldn't get fame out of the Avatar name. Then again it's not like they're Avatars, so maybe it wasn't a big deal. People only seem to flock to the Avatar when he can help them in ways normal people can't. Ways that can't be passed down. Unless it's stated in the show, I'll write off the fact that no one has ever heard of Avatar children as unexplained or a plot hole. Sort of like the exact way bending is passed down.
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LiveInThaskyE
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 19:23:52 GMT -5
Yea, Roku wouldve told him by now, but it could be the fact that that fact of the Avatar life is not important right now. Aang needs to concentrate on defeating the Fire Lord,not matters of love. cant he do both? Its possible,he just needs to find that BALANCE in his life,like all romantic relationships require. Balance the work and her,but ultimately she comes first.
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Post by Holierthanthou on Jun 21, 2007 19:36:43 GMT -5
Its possible,he just needs to find that BALANCE in his life,like all romantic relationships require. Balance the work and her,but ultimately she comes first. I think you're right about the ultimately she comes first thing. People say "Aang must put his duty first!" But if he does is he really devoted to her and giving him his whole heart?
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LiveInThaskyE
The Avatars
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jun 21, 2007 19:57:42 GMT -5
Its possible,he just needs to find that BALANCE in his life,like all romantic relationships require. Balance the work and her,but ultimately she comes first. I think you're right about the ultimately she comes first thing. People say "Aang must put his duty first!" But if he does is he really devoted to her and giving him his whole heart? In relationships,the male should always put his lady first,and vice versa. Family over work. Thats how it should be. Iroh was right when he said "power is overrated".(I think thats what he said,correct me if I'm wrong)
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