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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 22:26:21 GMT -5
There are people that say "Look! Now Aang has someone so he won't be sad when Katara runs off with Zuko!" Gah, that's stupid. Definetly. I feel that sort of vibe from it, you know? I know Tophaang can be a wonderful ship, just like any but...there's so much insincerity- that I have seen- that I just don't care for it. I don't see how Aang is considered in it besides being the same age. I don't and it bugs me because I understand why people like Tophaang, but the reasons to not like it, or my reasons not to like it are too strong to potentially ship it, perhaps ever. And, this may be off topic, but does anyone feel any tension on the forums as far as shipping goes, or does that seem passed? I think it's also kind of sad how Sokka-centered ships fall to the back of the back of the back of the back page. His relationships- one being one of the only canon relationships, are not nearly discussed as much. Is he truly just a 'boomerang guy' to a large portion of everyone? :-( It could be because he is not as loved here, or just because his relationships aren't as intersting to the majority but... Sokka+lack of discussion= A no-no!
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 22:27:30 GMT -5
I agree with y'all in that Aang is ignored, especially with Zutara. I mean come on, his feelings are canon. And I think he would be deeply hurt if Katara rejected him in favor of Zuko.
And unfortunately he's paired off with girls of whom he has no match with (Toph) or no interest in (Meng) strictly for no other reason than it gets him out of the way.
Poor kid. He's gotten poo-ed on by the fandom.
And all of this focus on opposites, yin/yang, etc. has I think moved away from the real thing that makes relationships successful: personalities, true feelings, a bond
Aang and Katara already fit well on so many levels and I think it would only improve as they age.
Zutara seems so forced to me. Like things or characters have to be twisted in order for it to seem plausible. Katara and Aang already work and you have the added darkness of him being the Avatar (and all that comes from that).
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Post by almighty on Jun 22, 2006 22:33:01 GMT -5
Hey Lunachaos, I've given you a Karma point. I like how you're debating views without totally trashing it. ;D Icehopper: Tension..... may still exist on this board, but I think it's been lifting a little. I don't know. Poor Sokka is getting pushed to the back. *starts looking for Sokka threads* The guy never gets shipped with anyone, but he's the one getting all the girls. Hehe... you go Sokka! Yes. Aang's feelings have been pushed aside when it comes to pairing him off with other girls. Poor Aang. He deserves a cookie or something for constantly getting shoved aside. -___-
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 22:33:55 GMT -5
I agree with you too Amiraelizabeth! Another reason I don't, or no longer enjoy Zutara is because the characters all seemed to need to be changed in order for it to work, instead of the core of their character being enough. That's not to say all the time, but a good chunk to me. A lot of Zutara evidence is debatable, but many Kataang- and other shipping evidence, isn't. That makes a huge difference in making a pair of characters believeable or not.
Sure someone can say, romantically Kataang is forced, but as far as Aang and Kataras friendship? That is as far from forced as forced will go, and any shipping that potentially destroys it (not to say ANY shipping is) well...it just doesn't work. Like Aang and tree. No no. No Aang and tree thanks. >.>
Edit: *Gives Aang cookie gently* I understand you, my friend. :-(
Yes!! Sokka is pushed too much! And now it is time to push back! *Pushes* Let's put all the Sokka -centered threads on the first page!! Rebel, like how you do your taxes in Roman Numerals!!>D (Or not) xD (Yeah...'nots' good.) xD But first page---!! Perfect plan!!
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 23:09:12 GMT -5
Aw, thanks a lot. I was beginning to feel like a loner lol definitely. He's been the only one who actually gets the girls, and here we are discussing the ones that might not even happen!! But I think that's why. It's happened, and there's nothing really to talk about. Zutara and Katang get so much action because it go either way really. Yes, but he hasn't exhibited any extreme maturity in the show yet. *If* Zutara were to happen, he would have to find it in his heart to accept it. And that would be great character development. I totally agree. It's kinda annoying, and I try to avoid using that most of the time. But the show has been pushing it hard lately, so many peopel are taking advantage of that. We should be looking at the relationships based on their personalities and what makes a great relationship. What have we been doing? lol Mmm. Yes that does seem to be the case, but I like that. I shows character development, and when we're dealing with teenagers it's called maturing. The people from the Water Tribes like change so in some twisted way Sokka and Katara would feel comforted by a drastic change like that? And if Zuko joins them first Sokka will have time to get used to him. [glow=red,2,300]LunaChaos[/glow]
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 23:18:19 GMT -5
@lunachaos:
*Sure, Sokkas relationships have happened, but that doesn't mean there should be a lack of discussion for it! There is JUST as much to talk about than if it were a 'might'. Sokka could be with Suki, that might happen, and yet there nearly isn't enough discussion about it. Which leads me to believe any relationship Sokka is in all together will have a lack of discussion...just because it is Sokka, and for some reason he is on the back page even in the community a good portion of the time.-_-
*Aang has shown several signs of extreme maturity. That is fact, as he said he would 'make a difference this time'. He may have shown it in subtle ways, but he's shown it: from helping his friends when their sick, to trying hard to discuss in battle before fighting. I mean, has Zuko? Has Sokka- Katara? They all have, but in ways that have nothing to do in romance.
But I guess your opinion of serious and mine are different.Or mine and the fandom. Who knows? But Aangs especially has shown maturity to me, and is in no means immature. I'll debate to the ground with that. xD *I know it's called maturing. -_- I can't tell if your trying to be sarcastic. Anyway, but there IS a difference from the 'fandom' maturing the characters and the CREATORS. I notice, for me anyway, that Katara and Zuko are changed in ways that seem very OOC, and that can be said for all ships but Zutara especially to me. And I don't like that, because if you lose the core of the characters, or to say- who they'll ALWAYS be despite 'maturing' than what Zuko and Katara do you have?
Even if they completely change, I'll much rather believe how it is protrayed from the show than from the fandom. I mean that in no disrespectful term at all, and it can be intersting to see how someone would mature them, but if they are not the creator- or their is no solid evidence that one cannot deny, then I- Icehopper- can sometimes not enjoy it.
And thus, my opinion. xD
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 23:24:12 GMT -5
I think being able to move on from his past, accept and embrace his duties as Avatar, and still as Gotter said be able to do it all while still maintaining his pleasant disposition shows great maturity. He doesn't have to be rejected to reach that goal. And he doesn't have to be rejected in order to achieve great development as a character.
That is a problem. Like I said, Zutara seems forced whereas Kataang already has the foundations built and it is entirely based on who they are as people. There is no elements, yin/yang. It is just the characters and who they are.
Often I see Aang infantilized (totally OOC) in order to make a case for Zutara. Also a problem.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 23:28:46 GMT -5
*Karmas* Well said Amiraelizabeth! x3
Edit: Too true. One has the foundations it needs in order to begin a relationship, and another doesn't. I understand yin and yang can be intriguing, but is it that important an issue to have..? I mean, similar elements are just as intriguing to me, as any opposite elements...It's unsettling to think that two characters are paired just to show how great it would be to have fire and water together. -_- Not saying that is the only reason, but isn't it one for Zutara, and other ships as well?
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 23:40:19 GMT -5
Yes. I'm sorry I over looked that. I just don't know why Sokka isn's as talked about because his ting with Suki couls still happen. Maybe it's because she's not a frequent character. Or we're fighting for the main couples.
Correct. That was an extreme amount of maturity: towards life. When it comes to relationships, he's still immature, like I believe most of the characters are. In the Cave of Two Lovers, when Katara suggested the kiss, both of them flushed deep red. So What I meant was that for intimate relationships they aren't too mature. Sorry if that wasn't clear. *cringes*
Haha...sorry I was not being sarcastic. I hope I didn't seem like that too much. I probably could have worded it better.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 23:55:42 GMT -5
Correct. That was an extreme amount of maturity: towards life. When it comes to relationships, he's still immature, like I believe most of the characters are. In the Cave of Two Lovers, when Katara suggested the kiss, both of them flushed deep red. So What I meant was that for intimate relationships they aren't too mature. Sorry if that wasn't clear. *cringes* OK. That is clear, except I- from your post-thought you were comparing him to Zuko or someone else in a manner not including romantic relationships.And whether Aang or any character is ready for romance is up to the viewer. But they were blushing because they were embarrassed. It may be awkward, but that doesn't mean they aren't ready for relationships, just because they become embarrassed when encountered with *one* potential romantic encounter. Being nervous and blushing like that, as they did, could reverse itself and show they are ready for a relationship, or may possibly like like eachother.
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 23:59:01 GMT -5
Shoot...when I first met my boyfriend (and I'm close to thirty), I blushed like a girl. He was cute, sweet, and charming and I got all tongue-tied and goofy. If that can happen to me in my late twenties, I'm sure it would happen to a couple of kids barely in their teens.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 23, 2006 0:27:23 GMT -5
Yeah I know they were embarassed. I'm just basically saying that they are immature (or inexperience) in the relationship department. It's not bad. Just sayin...
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 23, 2006 0:30:11 GMT -5
But what reasons are there for you to say that, or are you just stating your opinion?^^; As there are various reason to counteract your claim.
I still believe they could be ready.xD
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 23, 2006 0:42:27 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes. I cannot describe to you how much I agree with this sentiment. I actually have very little against Aang/Toph on its own as a pairing. I don't think that I see the dynamic if they were ever to engage in a romantic relationship playing out like most people who ship it do, but still. The thing that gets me is the fact that a lot of people clearly only ship Aang/Toph because it, in their minds, clears the way for Zuko/Katara. And before anyone starts yelling bloody murder, I'm not saying that it's everyone. BUT it's very telling that Aang/Toph, which just happens to free up Katara for Zuko/Katara (the most popular ship in the fandom), had a large section of the fandom already supporting after the Blind Bandit when neither of them had made ANY sort of romantic overture at all (and still haven't). However other ships, that happen to impede Zuko/Katara, which have more canonical basis, inasmuch as an actual romantic connection is involved, get no support at all. Honestly, there were a ton of people who right out admitted that they supported Aang/Toph because it "freed up" Katara for Zuko.
Now, I'm sure lots of people have developed an honest preference for Aang/Toph, by now, and that there are and always were some people who ship it but don't ship Zuko/Katara, but I can guarantee you that 90% of the initial fervor for Aang/Toph was people who saw it as what would deliver their much-wished-for Zuko/Katara to them by getting pesky Aang out of the way.
And I agree with this too. This goes back to my previous post about why I admire Aang so much. He has gone through things that would emotionally break any number of grown men and come out none the worst for wear. Aang has his moments where there's a serenity and a wisdom to him far beyond his biological age. I think that Aang is definitely youthful, but I don't think that he's terribly immature. There are plenty of adults who remain young-at-heart their entire lives and there's nothing wrong with that. Playful =/= immature. Neither does being free-spirited or energetic.
I'm not saying that Aang doesn't have his moments of immaturity, but there certainly isn't so prodigious a gap of maturity between him and Katara that it would preclude anything romantic happening between them. I mean, clearly, it doesn't seem to bother Katara when she's fangirling him and suggesting that they kiss and whatnot.
I think that there's definitely a lot of adolescent awkwardness to Aang/Katara, but that's not just on Aang's part. Katara likely doesn't have much more experience with romance than Aang does. I think they're probably on pretty even footing there, as has already been mentioned. Which is why I've honestly never really seen the big OMG SHE'S OLDER issue as...an issue at all. I mean, narratively-speaking, you could argue that it was used early on (notably in the Fortuneteller) as a peripheral, implied reason why she hadn't consciously considered him in a romantic context yet, but, well, she got over it. And to the best of my knowledge it's never actually been explicitly put forth on the show as any sort of obstacle. Our cultural expectations make it stick out to us, but on the actual show no one's ever so much as raised an eyebrow at the idea.
And if you want to bring Zuko into it, he's older, but he's also so ridiculously asexual that I've yet to be entirely convinced that he doesn't still think girls are icky. I'd be shocked if Zuko's ever even been kissed. And if he has, I'd bet money that he was totally the one BEING kissed, not the one doing the kissing.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 23, 2006 0:44:51 GMT -5
No, I'm not saying they aren't ready. Oh yes they are! I was just saying they are inexperienced thus leading to the immaturity....man I need to clarify...lol
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