daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Jun 22, 2006 19:09:30 GMT -5
We're doing a one-sentence story expressing how that is so true. ;D But I also have to say that from what I have seen, too many girls love Zuko and "commercialize" him, regardless of ship. I've seen a quiet a few Kataangs go all out when it comes to Zuko, it just happens that they don't like him paired with Katara. *shrug*
Aang has inner turmoil, too, he just deals with/hide it better. It's more subtle with Aang and unlike Zuko, he doesn't let it control him.
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silverdreams
Avatar Kyoshi
Opposites are confusing...
Posts: 1,383
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Post by silverdreams on Jun 22, 2006 19:30:31 GMT -5
We're doing a one-sentence story expressing how that is so true. ;D But I also have to say that from what I have seen, too many girls love Zuko and "commercialize" him, regardless of ship. I've seen a quiet a few Kataangs go all out when it comes to Zuko, it just happens that they don't like him paired with Katara. *shrug* Aang has inner turmoil, too, he just deals with/hide it better. It's more subtle with Aang and unlike Zuko, he doesn't let it control him. which is why many people like zuko... hes mr. angst. everyone love angst. xP Tho, the word angst had aang's name written all over it... 'aangst'... ok... I lost my point. xP Ok i found another one: Ok... I personally think that aang had a better life than zuko. He's the avatar... i'd love to be the avatar. >_> Everyone loves you and you can bend all 4 elements. Not saying that aang didn't have any problems, cause everyone was waaaay too hard on him in his past, but even still he is pressured to learn every element, like most of us have to learn in school.... and pass everything. But aang at least has people who care about him. Zuko... not only being considered a failure, also has the entire world hating him. The only person who cares at this point is iroh and katara. Plus, he was burned... by his own father, and his mom left him at a young age. He was banished from his own home. His only true friend is his uncle. They both have pretty bad hardships but zuko's is worse... though, by even saying that aang deals with it better, kindof prooves that he isn't immature. Im not sure why people consider aang immature... from 12 year olds i've met in my life time, aang is beyond mature for his age...
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Post by almighty on Jun 22, 2006 19:34:11 GMT -5
Zuko is also emo. I mean, people say that Mai is emo, but she doesn't express her emotions in any dramatic way. Zuko, on the other hand, is all emotion, little brain.
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 22, 2006 19:47:40 GMT -5
Okay, I hate to ever get into Compare the Tragedies and I am in no way saying that Zuko's life hasn't been difficult, but Aang, at 12 years old, has been removed from everything he ever knew, woken up to the knowledge that his entire race was exterminated, not to mention that he quite literally has the while world counting on him to save them. Aang wins at tragedy. Hands down.
The fact that Aang can get up in the morning and smile, can walk around and be, not just a person, but a kind, thoughtful, even-tempered, good-humoured and just generally good person never ceases to amaze me, and solidifies him as not only one of my favourite characters ever, but as one of the strongest I've ever seen.
(Which actually leads into the major reason that I disagree with the Toph/Aang argument that he needs her to "toughen him up" because that assumes/implies that there is some inherent weakness in Aang's character, which I, unequivocally, believe that there is not.)
Zuko has more fangirls because he angsts constantly about his problems and Aang is not hot. And when I say that I mean that Aang is twelve so people don't automatically think of him in sexual terms. Zuko is sixteen and got shirtless by the third episode of the show. It's really not terribly complicated.
And, mind you, I am no way saying that all people who fangirl Zuko only do so because he is OMGSMEXY, but that that is the underlying reason for the great disparity in the amount of people who think of Zuko first and foremost and the amount of people who focus on Aang.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 19:59:57 GMT -5
I completely agree! Karma!
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Post by almighty on Jun 22, 2006 20:02:18 GMT -5
which is why many people like zuko... hes mr. angst. everyone love angst. xP Tho, the word angst had aang's name written all over it... 'aangst'... ok... I lost my point. xP Ok i found another one: Ok... I personally think that aang had a better life than zuko. He's the avatar... i'd love to be the avatar. >_> Everyone loves you and you can bend all 4 elements. Not saying that aang didn't have any problems, cause everyone was waaaay too hard on him in his past, but even still he is pressured to learn every element, like most of us have to learn in school.... and pass everything. But aang at least has people who care about him. Zuko... not only being considered a failure, also has the entire world hating him. The only person who cares at this point is iroh and katara. Plus, he was burned... by his own father, and his mom left him at a young age. He was banished from his own home. His only true friend is his uncle. They both have pretty bad hardships but zuko's is worse... though, by even saying that aang deals with it better, kindof prooves that he isn't immature. Im not sure why people consider aang immature... from 12 year olds i've met in my life time, aang is beyond mature for his age... o.O Why didn't I see this post? -____- Anyway, I agree with you Gotterdammerung. It just seems really strange to me that people think that Zuko had the easier life. He has made his life seem miserable by always sulking and making others feel sorry for him. He's the one that chose to live in his turmoil. Aang, on the other hand, is, like Gotterdammerung said, able to move on from his past which demonstrates who strong he is. Aang's entire race has been wiped out when he woke up. His teacher and best friend was killed and Aang saw his skeleton which, let's admit it, is completely tragic and devastating. However, instead of being angsty, like Zuko, Aang still smiles and haves fun which makes himself seem stronger in the eyes of his friends and viewers.
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Lady Liesl
Refugee Aang
Katara is SRS BUSINESS GAIS!
Posts: 4,608
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Post by Lady Liesl on Jun 22, 2006 20:05:37 GMT -5
Almight and Gotterdammerung have already said everything. So theres nothing I can dd on at this point except that I agree with them 110%
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
Posts: 2,165
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Post by femaleairbender on Jun 22, 2006 20:14:21 GMT -5
Now that we're going into Compare Aang and Zuko's Pasts, I'd like to add in my two copper pieces.
Personally, I don't think I could choose one over the other. Aang found out he was the Avatar at age twelve, saw the skeleton of his friend and mentor, found out his whole speices was killed, and has the fate of the world plopped onto his shoulders. However, he does have friends to support him.
Zuko's mother died/left when he was young, his cousin and grandfather died, he has a father who thinks of him as a failure, his sister is absolutely twisted, he was scarred and banished from home, and almost the whole world hates him.
Like I said earlier in this post, I don't think I can choose whether Aang or Zuko had the most tragic past. I may be a Zuko fangirl but I don't like him just for his looks. I'm not that shallow.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Jun 22, 2006 20:18:46 GMT -5
However, he does have friends to support him. Is Iroh not enough?
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 22, 2006 20:37:07 GMT -5
Which is why I hated to bring it up in the first place, because opinions are obviously going to differ as they always do in situations like this. And I'm pretty much never, ever going to be convinced that Zuko's past is more tragic than someone who has had their entire race exterminated. I'm sorry. Few things can top that, in my estimation. It's not something that's focused on extensively in the show because it's a children's show and genocide is an atrocity and they're not going to constantly barrage 9-11 year olds with an atrocity in an attempt to get them to comprehend the weight of such a thing. But that doesn't change the nature of the situation.
The only argument that can really be made for Aang's life being better than Zuko's is that Aang, on a daily basis, makes his life better than Zuko's by living it, by continuing to move forward instead of always, always dwelling on the past, causing him to be a generally happier person than Zuko, which can be interpreted as his life being "better," but then that's just something else to attest to Aang's strength of character and some of the deficits in Zuko's.
Also, it should be noted that Zuko is not singularly or specifically persecuted by most of the world in the way that Aang is singularly and specifically looked upon to be everyone's savior. People hate the entire Fire Nation because they're an imperialist empire that's been waging war on them for 100 years. It's certainly not nice for Zuko, especially being the prince of the Fire Nation, but it shouldn't be presented as something that afflicts Zuko and Zuko alone.
Furthermore, while Aang has his friends, Zuko has Iroh who is unfailingly patient, supportive, and wise and any problems that Zuko has actually benefiting from Iroh's presence in his life are, generally, Zuko's own fault for being pigheaded.
Which is why I specifically and expressly said: "I am no way saying that all people who fangirl Zuko only do so because he is OMGSMEXY."
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
Posts: 2,165
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Post by femaleairbender on Jun 22, 2006 20:46:38 GMT -5
Sorry about that, yes, Iroh DEFINETELY supports Zuko, no doubt about it. And Gotterdammerung, sorry if I seemed insulting. It's probably because I'm tired. *yawns* But, yes, I see what you're saying. In the Lord of the Rings fandom, nearly all the Legolas fangirls only like him because he SOOO HAWT!!!!ONE!!1LOL!!!!1
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 21:23:19 GMT -5
Dudes...way too many errors in my previous post. Had to jet fast before looking it over. >.<
Well, you guys have pretty much covered everything, and deciding whether Aang has 'most tragic past' or Zuko is all in opinion. Nearly every character in the show has a 'tragic' past, but the most tragic...well, that's up to you. We have more characters to go as well, so it can always change.
To go back to shipping, someone stated that: when discussing your favorite character you don't usually start talking about other characters. But what I was posting about was discussing Aang EVER. Or even in a blue moon. xD My own personal experiences don't recall a good chunk of Zutarians discussing Aang as much at all. Or any other character besides Zuko, and sometimes Katara. It's especially awkward that Aang is hardly discussed...as it will probably affect his time with Katara...
((Edit: Another thing that overwhelmingly ticks me off is how a good portion of Zutara is protrayed. At what indication was there that Katara would leave Aang- so abrubtly, in some fics, to go with Zuko, and that she would 'never go back to Aang because Zuko needed her, and she was by his side now and that is all roses and chocaltes for her?' U
Um....what? As much as Katara vaules Aangs friendship, why the bloody heck would she NOT communicate with him, just because she goes off into the sunset with Zuko? That twists Kataras friendship with Aang so much that it makes my stomach hurt. She would at least VISIT, give her some credit- I mean..! Friends and love are both necessary elements of life! *To me*>O))
If Zuko is someones favorite main character, while this can definetly not be true depending on opinion, that seems to me that, no matter WHO Zuko is with, the reason he is paired with someone is because it will be best...for him. -_- Yes. I understand. I too would always like my favorite character with the character who I think would support them best.
However, what about the other character, the other party? What does the female or male or creature Zuko is with, recieve from being with him? What do they don't? Is it proper to recieve anything in love but love? Or is Zukos unconditional love enough for who he is with? It's all opinion, but I would whole-heartedly love to say each party is considered in several ships, and that the favorite character is not, potentially, being pushed on another character only for the favorite characters benifit.
....Did that make sense? I think it did, but now I have forgotten what I mean. Darn. xD
*Waits* *Nods* Oh, hey, Ty Lee reminds me of one of the chobits in Chobits. *Waits*
Yes, right. I know that both partners have been considered....perhaps twice...perhaps more, in a ship, but it's kind of funny- in some ships- they aren't considered constantly.
And Almighty, I definetly agree that opposites, as far as Zutara and Kataang, they don't always see eye-to-eye, but that can be okay as long as both parties are polite...which, sadly, some aren't, even here. xD Sucks plums...
Oh, and I'm not sure it was mentioned, but Zukos childhood and Aangs childhood before their lives crashed into potential/permenant change, seemed OK. The before=seemed ok *to me*. Aang had Gyatsu and his friends, and Zuko had his mother, Iroh, and Lu Tan. The after, the after is when our views change.
*Hypnotic voice: I know what it was like before the Avatar season..xD*
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Post by almighty on Jun 22, 2006 21:36:35 GMT -5
Icehopper: Yes! I totally forgot to mention another flaw in the Zutara relationship. Aang is in the middle of it. People like to pair him up with any other random girl just so they can see Katara and Zuko together.
Jojo is a good one for example. From the cards, we can see that she is probably Katara, Sokka, or Zuko's age. Those that pair her up with Aang AND saying that age matters are oblivious to what they just did. If age does matter to them, then why pair him up with a girl that is about 4 years older than him? @.@
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 21:57:07 GMT -5
@_@
@almighty: Your post kicked butt. I can't STAND how Aangs paired up with all these girls- or all ages, and yet the 'age' factor is not even whistled at until Kataang hits the pictures...That's one reason I don't like Tophaang: I can't really tell if someone truly loves it, or if it enhances their ship. I won't lie, if a Kataang likes it, I don't have as much of an issue than when a Zutarians loves it, just because of what a Zutarian loving it can mean.
That's a huge problem, I think: when it gets to the point when my love for a ship seems insincere.x(
Aang is in the middle of both ships! I don't understand his lack of exsistence in one/a lot of them!!
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 22:05:31 GMT -5
Hey I agree with you both! People do tend to pair Aang off with anyone to get him out of the way, and most of them really suck ( to put it bluntly). But there are a few that make it good. But I know that's not the point. You're mad about the age thing. I think it's stupid too, and that's why I try hard not to do it. I have paired him with someone else before, but not with someone older than Katara...someone his age.
And I do like tophaang. I think it has potential and it appeals to me. Even if there wasn't this stupid fight between Zutara and Katang (which I'm getting annoyed with) I would be a tophaang shipper. But I get your point. There are people that say "Look! Now Aang has someone so he won't be sad when Katara runs off with Zuko!" Gah, that's stupid.
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